Ramblings of a mad man

[Silent]

My ignorance will be blaring out in this post I'm sure, but I would like to make sure my choices are correct before spending the money.

First a bit of history. What I'm shooting is a Star M-43 Firestar 9mm pistol that I've had for almost 20 years now. I bought it new in '91 while serving in the Marines down at Camp Pendleton. I've always fed it 115 Grs. FMJ. I'm not sure where the information came from, probably the shop I bought it from, but I believe that I can only run ball ammo since the load ramp is so steep and short. I'm to cheap to go buy a box of hollow point ammo just to test it and find out I can't shoot it in anything that I own. If someone has info on what else this pistol can shoot, please chime in.

I also have a Marlin 30-30 lever action that I plan on shooting out at the range a lot more that I've had almost 20 years as well. I plan on reloading for the 30-30. I got in on the group buy for the re-run of the 311-165gr GCRF (2 GC, 2 plain so I can go either way).

I plan on casting my own .454 round balls for my .44 black powder revolvers when my current supply runs out. Since I'm going to cast both .454 and 30-30, I might as well cast for the 9mm. There are a few areas where I'm a bit fuzzy.

The only thing I find in a Lee mold that is comparable is 356-125-2R. That is 125 Grs, not the 115 Grs that I've been shooting, tho the profile of the round is the same as the PMC's I've been using. I just miked my bore on the 9mm, and I come up with a .357 major diameter with .349 rifling. The rounds I've been shooting mike in at .355, so I'm guessing the .356 mold would be acceptable.

My plan is to pick up a single stage press and dies for both the 30-30 and the 9mm, and go from there. My shooting is limited to once a week, so I have the time to spare to use a single stage and save some $$. I'll probably go with Lee, or possibly RCBS. It seems that people like the Unique powder for pistols, and 3031 seems to work well for the 30-30, so those are on my list to try out first. I'm open to different loads and powders. If I can run the same powder in both, then all the better. Are all brass shells re loadable in 30-30 and 9mm? I've been told that I can't use the aluminum or steel casings again.

I have some pure lead that just came in today, and some 63/37 tin/lead to stiffen it up a bit if needed I don't have any antimony tho. If need be, I will spend the money to by the Lyman #2 from Rotometals just to make sure I have a decent alloy to work from. I'm assuming that the #2 will work well for both the 9mm and the 30-30. Ohh, and wheel weights are about out of the question around here, I bask in the political correctness that is California.

Since my main concern is with the 9mm mold, and the associated metals, I figured this is the best place to post up. Not really sure where the questions are back there, but there's lots of em buried in this post. I'm open to advise, helpful nudges, stories, DON'T DO THAT!s and what not.

Howdy folks!

[docone31]

That Lee mold is the one I use.
I size it to .357, and it is flawless in my Star. No jams. I pan lube, with my receipe.
In time, you will get the progressive press. Meantime, you can get the hand press, or Classic press. Both are great. I use my classic press for sizeing, and 30-06. I have used my hand press for the -06 but the classic bolts to my table.
Melt the lead in a pot seperate from the melt pot you will be casting from. Make sure of that. It keeps the crud out.
I use the Lee 20lb bottom pour without incident. So far so good, and that is a while.
With the Lee molds, heat them up! I put Kitty Litter on my melt, and set the mold to heat a bit, then cast. If it wrinkles, heat it some more.
I water drop everything.
With Lee molds, I soak them in mineral spirits, first time, for two days. Cleans them out real well.
From there, a BIC lighter is used for smoking the mold, nothing else. The best thing is to get some examples, and we can help diagnose it.
Good luck, Good casting.

[runfiverun]

i'd go for 358 in the 9mm and don't go with the lee tumble lube design.
you can use unique in the 9 and the 30-30 to good affect.
if it were me and i had to buy alloy it's be #2 [5/5/90] and pure then find a good mix of the two.
50-50 would be a easy to pour alloy and be hard enough for both guns with unique.

[Silent]

Thanks for the info! I have the Lee Pro 4 20lb furnace in 110 that I will be working from. My lead is clean, but my tin/lead will have to be pre cleaned as suggested, there's a lot of crud on it. I was thinking about either an old cast iron pot, or possibly a cheap dutch oven.

I've heard that water dropping increases the hardness of the round, and I can't see how that could be a bad thing. For the bullets (boolits?), I'll take the advise and water drop em, but for the .44's they need to be as soft as possible, so there going to have to air cool I think.

[Silent]

i'd go for 358 in the 9mm and don't go with the lee tumble lube design.
you can use unique in the 9 and the 30-30 to good affect.
if it were me and i had to buy alloy it's be #2 [5/5/90] and pure then find a good mix of the two.
50-50 would be a easy to pour alloy and be hard enough for both guns with unique.

You'll have to bear with me, I'm new to all this alloying.

If I'm seeing this correctly, the final alloy would be something like 2.5/2.5/95 as a 50/50 mix of pure lead and #2?

Would it be possible to use tin instead of antimony for something like a 10/90 mix? That's something I could mix here out of existing materials (60/40+pure on hand) or should I just bite the bullet STS and buy some antimony?

[Doby45]

More than 2% tin is a waste. Tin in and of itself is not a "hardener" it helps the lead fill out the mold better. You need more antimony to actually harden the alloy. Add a little lino to harden.

[454PB]

For 9mm, I like a fairly hard alloy.....nothing below about 12 BHN. I size .357" for all my 9mm (I own 4 of them).

Water dropping won't work without some antimony. You can buy an alloy from Rotometals, or scrounge some wheelweights for the antimony.

[RobS]

More than 2% tin is a waste. Tin in and of itself is not a "hardener" it helps the lead fill out the mold better. You need more antimony to actually harden the alloy. Add a little lino to harden.

Tin does harden lead just not at the extent that antimony does. Tin is also not as cheap either and for this very reason many use it only to help with fill out.

Alloy---------------BHN
Straight Lead = 5
1 to 40 tin lead = 8
1 to 30 tin lead = 9
1 to 20 tin lead = 10
1 to 10 tin lead = 11

[Doby45]

Thats why I said it is not in and of itself a "hardener", does it harden any at all, sure. But, it is not enough to justify the cost. You can find lino in the SS section much cheaper than tin.

[RobS]

yep, that is correct just clarifying for a newbie

[Silent]

I'm about as new as ya get

My source of 60/40 is free to me (and fairly rare), that's the only reason I can toss in more tin for less money. I'll melt what I have this weekend and see how many pounds of clean I have. I'm guessing about 15-20 pounds. I've been pouring over the stats on Rotometals alloys trying to make sense of things. They say that their lead/antimony mixture melts around 550f. Lead is about 600f, and antimony is something in the range of 1100f. How could that mixture melt at 550f? My pot only goes to 900, so it looks like I'll have to use lino to get antimony into my mixes, or buy ready mixed. I'm starting to get the drift of things I think.

[bruce381]

I would add regarding the 30-30 I would trim the cases to same size length and use a very light crimp if too much crimp the neck will crush and they will not chamber. The 30-30 case is thin so crimp easy with the same lenght that helps.

[RobS]

Silent:

Here is a good link to read up on casting and alloys.

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

[nicholst55]

I'd recommend hanging onto that 60/40 mix; you'll really gain very little casting for smokeless powder loads by going over about 2-3% tin. Rotometals, for instance, charges very nearly the same price for linotype as they do for nearly any other alloy; same thing with their 'super-hard' alloy. I'd consider buying a small quantity of one of those, and mixing it with my current alloy in order to end up with something approximating either Lyman #2 or hardball alloy.

That high-tin alloy (solder?) you're getting may be free today, but what about tomorrow? I'd save some for the future if it were me.

[XWrench3]

as far as adding antimony to the lead alloy goes, you will need to find an alloy of some type that already has antimony in it. you will never get your laed to a high enough temp to melt in antimony. most of the cases you encounter will be brass and boxer primed, which means reloadable. i have reloaded both aluminum and steel casings as well. with the alumium ones, you have to keep the load fairly mild or the cases will crack the first or second time you load them. something that is just above what it takes to cycle the slide works. i have reloaded the alumium cases that way between 3 and 8 times before they crack. as for the steel cases, they are a little more work. first, they have to be CLEAN! as they are a lot harder, and if there is dirt on the case when you size it, it may very well scratch your dies. second, they will need more or better lube than a standard case. you do not want to stick one of these. whatevery you end up with for cases, look at all of them, and make certain they are not berdan primed. they are not worth the headache for the guns you have. usually, the berdan primed shell casings come from europe or russia.. i think everything made in the usa has boxer primers. yes, you can load your 30-30 with pistol powder. you have to keep the amounts down around what a pistol shoots though. you can NOT fill the case to get higher velocities! you will explode the gun! check this site for reduced loads for your 30-30. http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

[mdi]

http://www.lasc.us/ArticlesFryxell.htm

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...book&x=16&y=16

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/index.htm (go to column on left side and click on "book".)

Most info you'll need is located on this site and in these manuals. I prefer to have something in front of me to study, as a book, when trying a new hobby/job. Also, in forums you'll get as many opinions as facts, so be wary. Read the books for a good "base" in casting and K.I.S.S. Lee bullet casting products have worked for me for 8 or ten years, especially the tumble lube/alox type. I now have molds by Lee (5), Lyman (2), RCBS (1), and Ideal (1).

Don't get discouraged when casting for the 9mm as I've read a bunch of posts on problems casting/loading for the 9mm. Sometimes it takes a while, but it can be done.

Casting is in itself another hobby for me and it's very rewarding and fun. I find my self scrounging for lead and looking for "stuff" at yard sales and thrift shops! Just the other day I found a corn muffin pan (aka ingot mold) in a thrift store for $1.00.

Be safe, go slow, and enjoy!

Edit: +1 on Echo's recommendation to read stickys. Lots of sticky/info in all the forums (you'll also need to know some about lubes).

[Echo]

Yo, Silent;

My advice is worth exactly what you are paying for it!

First - I advise sizing cast boolits (for autoloaders) as big as will reliably chamber - the bbl will size them down to the exactly correct size. Sizing your boolits to .356 will guarantee leading.

Second - I second what has been said about Sn. We REALLY need it for our alloy, just not much. Two % is generally enough, and anything over 3% is definitely wasteful.

Third - I also second what has been said about Lee TL molds. Some folks have good luck with them - I have never owned one, nor do I intend to ever own one. I have used Mule Snot (LLA) successfully with a certain small 38 boolit, so for low intensity loads, I believe in it's utility. For 9mm, maybe not.

Fourth - many folks here (myself included) recommend WW's + 2%Sn for danged near everything. You may find that water dropping, or heat-treating, may be necessary, but I will allow others who have more experience w/9mm's to chime in on that.

Fifth - and last - I strongly recommend you go through ALL the stickies on this site. There is more info here than anywhere else, and the friendly help you will get will prove it.

But. YMMV.

[Wayne Smith]

If you have .359" groove measure on your FireStar and if this is a reliable measure you will need .359-.361" boolit to prevent gas cutting along the grooves. I would question if you can chamber a boolit this big. I would very carefully measure that barrel and chamber, perhaps even doing a chamber cast, before I invested very much in trying to cast for it.

For the .44 C&B you will be using pure lead. You can water drop that to your heart's content, it won't harden. Just cool faster! Save most of your pure for this use unless you have an ongoing source of pure.

[David2011]

Silent,

Welcome to casting! Without antimony it won't do any good to drop the boolits in water. They just get wet. You can melt some Rotometals Super Hard Alloy- 70% Pb, 30% Sb, into your other metals. Having the antimony already alloyed with some lead makes it far easier to get it alloyed with your metals. Alone it melts at 1167 degrees. It's not terribly expensive in the proportions you need. Like the others said, excess tin won't gain anything for you. Commercial boolit casting metal is often 92% Pb, 6% Sb, 2% Sn. Lyman #2 is 90% Pb, 5% Sn, 5% Sb.

That's why those of us in the rest of the states like to start with wheelweights.

David

[Silent]

I feel like my brain is melting from information overload.

I think I'll go with the Rotometals Hardball alloy. It has 6% antimony, and I have both tin and lead if I feel the need to change the alloy. That and it's only $.10 a pound more than base lead. Still way cheaper than buying precast FMJ rounds.

The Firestar is only .357 in the grooves. Is leading really a problem in a 2.5" barrel? Would I just lower the hardness of the bullet by upping the lead to allow more deformation if leading does occur?

My original intention was to stay near factory loads so I know things will work. What is the advantage of light loading the 9mm or the 30-30?

And the rambling continues (and so does the stickie reading!)