Inline FabricationStainLess Steel MediaMidSouth Shooters SupplyTitan Reloading
RotoMetals2Ballisti-CastLee PrecisionGraf & Sons
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 49

Thread: New 1874 Sharps advice???

  1. #1
    Boolit Master saz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Windsor, CO
    Posts
    645

    New 1874 Sharps advice???

    I want a 1874 sharps- period. I have been knocking the idea around for quite a while now until I got a chance to shoot one at some sillouettes out to 600 yds and it is all over but the empty checkbook. WHAT A GAS! It was a shiloh in 45-110 and I believe he was loading the lyman postell boolit over swiss 1 1/2. I am impressed to say the least.

    Now my question is about the different manufacturers out there, as I am sure there is junk floating around. Bottom line, I cannot afford a Shiloh. I would like to keep my options open for competing in sillouhette or long range in the future if I wanted to. So, I am thinking at least a 30" barrel and either 45-70 or 45-90. That 45-110 about made me pay an unscheduled visit to my dentist to tighten up some molars for me. I couldnt imagine enjoying running 60-100rds a day through that rifle. The gun will have to stay under 12lbs (for NRA rules, right?) to keep options open.

    There is a 45-70 uberti in town with half round half octagon 32" barrel on sale at the local sportsmans wharehouse, and the fit and finish seems really good. Also I know there are a lot of pedersoli's out there and I have owned a couple of pedersoli muzzleloaders and they are high quality pieces. Honestly I am prepared to move a couple of guns to own a 1874, and just want a little advice on what direction to go. I am leaning toward the 45-70 as brass and dies are just more affordable and readily available. Also the preferred rifling is around 1:18 correct? Thoughts???
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far"
    Theodore Roosevelt


  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    2,626
    I have a Uberti that actually was made by perdersoli. They are a quality rifle and shoot very competitively with other makes. 1 in 18 twist works well and most shooters of long range prefer that twist rate today. However, I have a couple of rifles with 1 in 20 twist that also shoot as good as I can make them. I have 1874 Sharps rifles made by Uberti (Pedersoli), Shiloh, Pedersoli, and C Sharps. The Shiloh and C Sharps are the top of the line products but the Pedersoli (Uberti) are not far behind. I would opt for the 45-70 as it is really easy to get started in the game and it is also the cheapest to feed. Other makers such as Armi Sport and Padretti make 1874 but they are of lower quality than the Pedersoli products.

    A couple of things to consider when selecting your rifle. A pistol grip helps but is not essential. A shotgun butt plate is preferred as it distributes recoil better. I have two 1874 with the militaty butt. It works well for a hunting rifle and at short range but the comb is too low for long range. If you get a rifle fitted with this butt you will at some point want to make or buy a strap on pad that raises the comb some for those longer ranges otherwise you will not have a good cheak weld and your scores will suffer if you are anything like me.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master Don McDowell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Hell Gap Wy
    Posts
    3,604
    Might want to stop and think about things a moment before you start on that "I can't afford a..... " thing.
    Unless you're buying a used Italian the cost is going to be within spitting distance of a Big Timber built gun, so save a bit longer and help support a fellow American. If the gun is used there will/should be a pretty big gap between the Italian and the Big Timber gun.
    If you're not in a huge hurry to get the rifle then place your order with Shiloh, give them the 250$ deposit, then start saving. You'll have another year to either store the cash in your savings account , or send Shiloh a chunk of change as you get it. Then when your rifle is in the final stages the final payment will have either been made or won't be such a hit on the checkbook.
    There's also been some fairly good deals on Gunbroker as of late.
    GUSA #6
    People will forget what you said...
    People will forget what you did...
    But People will NEVER forget how you made them feel

    Want to join in adult conversation about shooting the old ways without the hysterics associated with other places?http://historicshooting.com/mybb/index.php

  4. #4
    Boolit Master longranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Buffalo WY
    Posts
    265

    Cool

    I could not agree more with Mr. McDowell,

    I did exactly what he is indicating.I looked at the least expensive # 3 Shiloh,plain wood,added a shotgun butt plate(should have gotten the hard rubber $80.00 less.32" half round/half Oct. no additional charge,just a bit over $1700.00 before tax and shipping.It is by far my most favorite rifle I own.The "Quigly" by Pedersoli approaches this price and then some.No comparison for the money spent which is the much better rifle,No body builds a better 1874 Sharps than Shiloh and prices are very favorable when you consider the outstanding quality.Nobody is taking less than they paid for their used Shiloh rifles,not so with Pedersoli.
    I think If you want a very collectable Shiloh order as plain jane rifle in the configuration of your choice,plain wood,standard case color reciever.Shiloh makes way less of this type of rifle than the dolled up high dollar options(I own 1)Their quality has never been better than it is today that says alot about their product.
    I cannot stress the point that a Shiloh rifle is worth,placing a deposit and making reasonable payments untill it is built and assembling all of the parts and pieces that will be needed to shoot.I just feel better about my money going to Big Timber MT instead of Europe.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master


    SharpsShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Rainelle, West Virginia
    Posts
    4,180
    Stay away from I.A.B. Taylor's and Chappia as they are pretty much garbage. The Pedersoli's generally are well made with good barrels. Don's point about the price of new is spot on. Cost of a basic, no frills 1874 in 45-70 will run..

    $1800 Shiloh
    $1895 C. Sharps
    $1350 Pedersoli 1874 Sharps Basic Hunter Rifle .45-70


    In all fairness, Pedersoli does offer a 1874 Sharps "Hunter" .45-70 for $995 that would get your start off to the right direction, but it will not be finished as well


    SS
    NRA Life Member Since 1981



    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"-- George Washington

    II Corinthians 4:8-9. We are hard-pressed on every side, yet not crushed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted but not forsaken, struck down, but not destroyed."

    Psalms 25:2 O my God, I trust in thee: let me not be ashamed, let not mine enemies triumph over me.


  6. #6
    Black Powder 100%
    cajun shooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Livingston, La. 20 miles east of Baton Rouge, La.
    Posts
    3,928
    If you watch Gun Broker you can find the Pedersoli's for sale all the time. If you go to the site you will see all the different models they offer. Pedersoli's good rifles will shoot with the C Sharps and Shiloh's. I own a Pedersoli Competition model that weighs 13 lbs and it is a fine rifle. If you are bent on having one then what Don said is correct. But no one knows your money as you do and in these times it is hard for a lot of people including myself. I was ready to order my Shiloh when it hit our business in Sept. of 07 and we have yet to recover. The pedersoli that I bought was $1600 but selling for $1000. I have never regretted the buy. You appear young in your avatar and maybe you can buy that Pedersoli now. That will allow you to get your feet wet for the day you call Shiloh.
    Shooter of the "HOLY BLACK" SASS 81802 AKA FAIRSHAKE; NRA ; BOLD; WARTHOG;Deadwood Marshal;Bayou Bounty Hunter; So That his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
    Freightman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Amarillo, Tx
    Posts
    2,858
    It takes a year or more to get a Shiloh figure out what the payments after the down payment and pay for it by the month. You will like the Shiloh, I have one, never shot an Italian one or C. Sharps so I can't say how they are.
    Frank G.

  8. #8
    I'm A Honcho! montana_charlie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    West of Great Falls, Montana
    Posts
    15,271
    Before you say you can't afford a particular brand, think about what you indend to do with the rifle.

    If you plan on using it in competition, you will probably want a shotgun butt. That option is available on almost any Shiloh rifle at no extra cost...even the 'cheap' ones.
    To get a Pedersoli with a shotgun butt, you will have to be choosy about the model you pick...and that might kick up the price.

    But to say that a Shiloh is only a little more expensive than a Pedersoli is a question open to interpretation by your wallet.

    The Shiloh Sporter #3 with standard everything is a $2000 gun when you only add the never-mentioned excise tax. The standard finish on the wood is quite 'non-reflective' (read 'dull') and the grain is unfilled.

    The Pedersoli Billy Dixon is the same configuration as a Sporter #3. As a model which falls in Pedersoli's $2000 price range, it has better than standard wood with better than standard finish. The grain is properly filled, and there is a nice 'glow' to the surface without being glassy.

    Dropping to the standard finish on standard wood takes you to what Pedersoli calls the 'Sporting Standard' model. It is the same configuration as the Billy Dixon and the Sporter #3, but it's available as an $1100 gun. That's a $900 difference while comparing apples to apples.
    All of the metal is identical to the Billy Dixon (absent the nose cap), but the wood is plainer and the finish is more utilitarian.

    If you happen to need the same rifle with a shotgun butt...there is the Silhouette Standard.
    It's found between $1100 and $1400...depending on where you find it.

    These are not made up numbers used to fudge the comparison between rifles from the two makers. They are based on current webpages, and they don't make the 'apple versus orange' comparison between a Pedersoli Quigley with a Shiloh Business Rifle just to lend credence to the argument.
    If you want to see the 'apple' from Shiloh with corresponds with a Pedersoli Quigley, the difference is a thousand dollars...before you count that excise tax.

    CM
    Retired...TWICE. Now just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    VT.
    Posts
    73
    My Quigley sharps say Taylor arms, made by Pederisole.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    South of Saint Louie
    Posts
    1,767

    Customer service

    I ordered a SHILOH in October '03...gun flunked inspection in NOV/DEC '04...minor stock crack...and delivered PERFECT in FEB '05. SHILOH absorbed $400 wood upgrade, pewter fore end tip and AA finish and didn't even mention it.

    Summer 09 at Quigley, SHILOH installed a new breech block FREE...had a burr around the firing pin hole on the old one...I been shooting it some.

    45/70 is a better choice because of component availability. I have a 50/90 because "all my life when they said SHARPS, I thought BIG 50." My next gun will be an identical 45/70, but I treasure the 50.

    Order the SHILOH and start saving money. Get it the way you want and you won't have any regrets. C. SHARPS are pretty good, but they need to work on their public relations. The "italians" can be pretty good, but "second place is the first loser." Horror stories abound with some makes.


  11. #11
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1

    1874 Sharps "Advice"

    Hello! I've been lurking around here for a long time and finally joined officially yesterday, and what do I find but a discussion about one of my favorite rifles! I was amazed to find that Shiloh Sharps rifles are under $2000! I assumed one could not be touched for anywhere near this amount! Of course, I am 62 at this point and some may say that time could be a problem...
    You will not regret buying a Pedersoli Sharps 1874. I have one by them in a .45/70 silhouette rifle. A simply beautiful rifle. And it shoots better than I can. I put a Pedersoli vernier tang sight on it (a nice one with lots of adjustment dials) and a Pedersoli globe tang front sight with a spirit level. I am also a member of Chas Hamilton's Black Powder Cartridge List and ran into Pedersoli U.S. factory rep Dick Trenk there. Sadly, Dick passed away this summer. He guided me in so far as Pedersoli products were concerned and I have yet to regret the purchase. I bought a Shiloh Model 1863 Carbine in the mid-70's when they started production and that little carbine is built exactly as the original was (well, almost, as the gas seal system is a bit different). That carbine now carries an original Lawrence Patent complete lock on it! Dropped right in place. That pretty well tested the interchangability factor. The quality of the Shiloh is higher. The quality of the Pedersoli is right up there also. I could not afford a Shiloh 1874. Still can't. As far as anyone being a loser at a rifle match due to using a Pedersoli, I really dought that! I love my Pedersoli. And that little 1863 Shiloh carbine will put three .50 caliber bullets touching each other at 25 yards (they no longer make the .50 in that model). I also have a Chiappa Model 1870 Sharps "conversion" carbine in caliber .50/70 . Beautiful metal work, case hardening colors and wood to metal is superb. Shoots heavy black powder loads as long as you can take the kick. The trick to shooting any well made '74 Sharps is to properly load the cartridge for it and keep the powder fouling soft using a blowtube as you shoot it. Any company can make a lemon. The replicas I have obtained from Pedersoli and Chiappa so har have been very well made and excellent shooters. Just my input on this as a satisfied shooter of them.
    GregT

  12. #12
    Boolit Master saz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Windsor, CO
    Posts
    645
    Thanks for all the replies guys! And yes I am only 33 years old, but I am on a single military income so until my son is in school full time, my wife isnt working so "extra" cash is a little thin with our camping addiction in full swing. I have been looking around and one thing that has cought my eye is the Pedersoli hunter- it has a 30" barrel, pistol grip, shotgun butt and what looked like not too bad of wood (I am a sucker for nice wood) selling out of cabelas for $999.00. Just wondering if they are the same quality as the rest they put out and what makes them sell it that much cheaper. Also are the NY made shilo's good quality also? I have found a few around and are still commanding a bit of $. I am really having fun just researching them and figuring all this stuff out and looking for one. I need time to sell a few other things first anyways!
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far"
    Theodore Roosevelt


  13. #13
    Boolit Master saz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Windsor, CO
    Posts
    645
    Also, after looking at a bunch of different forums, I seem to get very mixed opinions over the 45-70 vs 45-90. Now my opinion is that IF down the road I decided to get into long range shooting the 45-90 would be the more versitile choice. Now the friction seems to be that some people seem to think that there is a longer learning curve with the 90 than the 70..... That seems a little odd to me as one is a little longer and has more case capacity, i.e. if you are seating the bullet correctly and have the correct load density, one shouldnt be any more difficult to load for, right? Unless I am completely missing something.
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far"
    Theodore Roosevelt


  14. #14
    Boolit Master Don McDowell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Hell Gap Wy
    Posts
    3,604
    The 90 just flat kicks more than the 70, takes a good bit of trigger time to get used to it, and alot of folks load it down to be able to handle it.
    Personally I don't think the 70 gives up much of anything to the bigger cartridges even at 1000 yds.
    You can stoke a 70 with 3f and be breathing hot on the heels of the long cases, if you want to put up with the recoil, with only 30 fps or less between a 530 gr bullet out of a 70 and a 110 at 1000 yds, I'm wondering what's the point in the more expensive cases?
    Strictly hunting use the longer cases have a decided edge.
    GUSA #6
    People will forget what you said...
    People will forget what you did...
    But People will NEVER forget how you made them feel

    Want to join in adult conversation about shooting the old ways without the hysterics associated with other places?http://historicshooting.com/mybb/index.php

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Gillette Wyoming
    Posts
    769
    I will drop my 2 cents worth, and not trying to take anything from Don, whom I consider a good friend, But there is more then 30 Fps vrs the 70 with FFFg and the 45-110 with FG. I run about 1385 to 1400 fps. A 45-70 with FFFg will get you 1250 to 1265 Fps TOPS. However Recoil is more much more with a 110, and it does take getting used too. Recoil with a FFFG 70 load is on par with most 90 loads. I have never seen in 16 years of National Level competition a FFFg 70 load break 1300 Fps. However 110 loads can and will exceed 1400 Fps with aplomb. Most long range shooters I know like to be moving along at 1285 to 1330 at least with their bullet and respective loads.

    The 70 does give up in my opinion, due to having to run FFFg it burns hotter and you can have Fouling issues. I know a few folks that do well with the 70 in long range, however its few and far between wins, and if conditions are tough, forget it, the 90 or the 110 will flat kick it's butt at 1000 yards, fishtailing 2-10 winds will eat the slower bullet ALIVE.

    A national Champion 45-70 shooter this past year I was pulling his target at Phoenix, his bullets showed visable tipping even at 800 yards. He shot well at 8 and 900 however in heavy winds on the last day his 1000 yard scores were in the tank and bullets were showing not keyholes but Egg shaped holes in the target at 1000 yards.

    Dast Lunger
    KW

  16. #16
    Boolit Master Don McDowell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Hell Gap Wy
    Posts
    3,604
    Kenny, I was talking about when those bullets cross the 1k line. Ballistics table after ballistics table suggest the velocity difference to be the 30 fps or less. Need someone with big chronog screens to do an actual reading sometime.
    I think the biggest problem folks have with bullets at the 1 k line with the 45-70 is running bullets to heavy.
    See ya thursday.
    GUSA #6
    People will forget what you said...
    People will forget what you did...
    But People will NEVER forget how you made them feel

    Want to join in adult conversation about shooting the old ways without the hysterics associated with other places?http://historicshooting.com/mybb/index.php

  17. #17
    Boolit Master saz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Windsor, CO
    Posts
    645
    I have been shooting and hunting with muzzleloaders for most of my life now, and I know the difference between 2F 3F, substitutes etc.... What is the difference between the standard GOEX and the cartridge? It looks like a 1 1/2 granulation, is that it?

    Also what makes the swiss powder demand so much more money? Is is more uniform or burn hotter? I am in AK so maybe that has something to do with it. I can get GOEX for $20/lb but swiss is about $35.

    Also has anyone used any of the substitutes like pyrodex or 777 or is that kind of "taboo"? I use 777 in 2 of my inlines with WONDERFUL results. If real black gave me better groups I would use it with those guns but 777 gives me better accuracy with heavy conicals.
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far"
    Theodore Roosevelt


  18. #18
    I'm A Honcho! montana_charlie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    West of Great Falls, Montana
    Posts
    15,271
    saz,
    Did you click on the wrong forum?
    The muzzleloader guys gather here... http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?f=16
    CM
    Retired...TWICE. Now just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master saz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Windsor, CO
    Posts
    645
    Quote Originally Posted by montana_charlie View Post
    saz,
    Did you click on the wrong forum?
    The muzzleloader guys gather here... http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?f=16
    CM
    MC,
    I was speaking in reference to cartridge rifles and using the substitutes in them.
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far"
    Theodore Roosevelt


  20. #20
    Boolit Master Don McDowell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Hell Gap Wy
    Posts
    3,604
    Quote Originally Posted by saz View Post
    I have been shooting and hunting with muzzleloaders for most of my life now, and I know the difference between 2F 3F, substitutes etc.... What is the difference between the standard GOEX and the cartridge? It looks like a 1 1/2 granulation, is that it?

    Also what makes the swiss powder demand so much more money? Is is more uniform or burn hotter? I am in AK so maybe that has something to do with it. I can get GOEX for $20/lb but swiss is about $35.

    Also has anyone used any of the substitutes like pyrodex or 777 or is that kind of "taboo"? I use 777 in 2 of my inlines with WONDERFUL results. If real black gave me better groups I would use it with those guns but 777 gives me better accuracy with heavy conicals.
    Cartridge powder is a bit more refined than regular 2f, but not as much as express. It's a very accurate powder in many cartridges, but the velocity will fall a bit short of the Express.
    I've not noticed it barely worth the expense to buy Express and after trying some Swiss have decided it to be greatly overrated. I do like the Schuetzen powder tho, but the fly in the ointment there is the finer grain sizes. Schuetzen 2f is similar sized to Goex 3f and gives similar velocities.
    Have messed with some of the subs, things like app & 777 put out a lot more smoke than real bp, and I've yet to get anything resembling the accuracy from the subs that real black gives.
    GUSA #6
    People will forget what you said...
    People will forget what you did...
    But People will NEVER forget how you made them feel

    Want to join in adult conversation about shooting the old ways without the hysterics associated with other places?http://historicshooting.com/mybb/index.php

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check