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Thread: Win 785 Powder

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Win 785 Powder

    I was going through my powder storage area and found a can of Winchester 785 ball powder way in the back. It is still in good shape and I do not like to waste powder of any sort. My problem is is that I do not have any loading data for it only that I know it is slower than Win 760. I would like to use this stuff in loading any of the following cartridges: 6.5X55 Swedish, 30-30, 30-06, 7.5 swiss, 7.62X54r, 303 British, 45-70. Has anyone ever used this stuff with cast bullets and what loading data do you have.

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    Nick, in general, use 785 as 4831 weight wise, not volume. If the case is not full, or no more than 5 percent less in volume, don't use it, especially for cast, unless you filler it on up with a filler of some sort. I prefer PSB. ... felix
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    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by NickSS
    I was going through my powder storage area and found a can of Winchester 785 ball powder way in the back. It is still in good shape and I do not like to waste powder of any sort. My problem is is that I do not have any loading data for it only that I know it is slower than Win 760. I would like to use this stuff in loading any of the following cartridges: 6.5X55 Swedish, 30-30, 30-06, 7.5 swiss, 7.62X54r, 303 British, 45-70. Has anyone ever used this stuff with cast bullets and what loading data do you have.
    Nick, seems like I should have some 785 data. Let me look and see what I can find. Felix, a question for you...or anyone who might know.......why was it discontinued, as I recall, quite soon after being produced? Regards, Woody
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    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by woody1
    Nick, seems like I should have some 785 data. Let me look and see what I can find. Felix, a question for you...or anyone who might know.......why was it discontinued, as I recall, quite soon after being produced? Regards, Woody
    I do have some limited data from Winchester. Of course not any of the cartridges you mentioned. Very slow ball powder pretty much for "medium and large capacity cases and ...belted magnum cases." Winchester cautioned to use the data they provided exactly as shown. PM me if you want specific data. Regards, Woody
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    Lack of sales, no doubt! Too many powders in the same 785 burn range. The only powder they took off the market for functional reasons (due to irregular ignition) was 630. To my knowledge, that is. ... felix
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    Thanks for the info Felix I know that it is a magnum powder and I originally used it in a 264 Mag and found that it was too fast for max velocity so quite using it. I thought I used it all up. I will see how it fills a 45-70 case with a charge weight similar to 4831.

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    Nick, your 45-70 is modern, isn't? NOT a trapdoor. ... felix
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    I used 785 in the 6mm Rem with jacketed bullets. They were super accurate,but slow! Several hundred fps if I remember correctly.I had to hold a LOT higher on long shots than with 4350 or 4831 powders. I did chrono the loads once,but don't have the results any more.

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    .............Very possibly the reason WW pulled it is because it exhibited the same traits as H110 and W296 with reduced loads?

    ...............Buckshot
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    Maybe so, Rick. Maybe they brought it to the market in the first place was to eliminate such a large stock of it that they could not use it all making loaded ammo. Too fast for 50 machine gun ammo? ... felix
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    My 45-70s are all new made like Marlin 95 and C. Shaprs 1875 model rifles. I have put pretty hot loads through each.

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    Quote Originally Posted by felix
    The only powder they took off the market for functional reasons (due to irregular ignition) was 630. To my knowledge, that is. ... felix
    Hey Felix, they took 295P off due to ignition problems in cold weather. Replaced it with the slightly faster burning 296.
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    Well, I think all the "P" versions were taken off the market at the same approx time because each new non-P had a newer formulation. Yeah, I bet it was primer related. ... felix
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    Can someone print load data for 785?

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    785 was linked to a fair number of SEE in reduced loads as I recall. I think it was even written up in the early handloader by a guy playing with one of the Gibbs cartridges - maybe the 6.5.
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    Boolit Master Heavy lead's Avatar
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    Was not 785 the same powder as H 450? It seems it was. I used some H 450 in the mid 80's when I was a youngun and a new reloader for the 300 Win Mag. an accurate powder with the Nosler 200 grain partition from my notes, but when I finally had money to buy a chrono in the 90's the velocity (also from my old notes) was disappointing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heavy lead View Post
    Was not 785 the same powder as H 450? It seems it was. I used some H 450 in the mid 80's when I was a youngun and a new reloader for the 300 Win Mag. an accurate powder with the Nosler 200 grain partition from my notes, but when I finally had money to buy a chrono in the 90's the velocity (also from my old notes) was disappointing.
    785 =>H450 That's what I've always thought.

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    When Hodgdon recently gave out the list of Hodgdon / Winchester equivalents, they did not list 785 and H450 as a pair so I doubt it.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmoline one View Post
    Can someone print load data for 785?
    Yes, but it will take a day or so to post it... That pesky work-to-earn-money thing, you know.

  20. #20
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    Winchester 785 DataAll data from Ken Water's Pet Loads articles (in the big red book)

    .220 Swift
    53 gr Win Match HP - 43.0 - Win case - CCI250 - 2.65" COL - 3478 fps - "extremely accurate, low velocity"
    63 gr Sierra Semi-Ptd. - 44.0 - Norma case - CCI250 - 2.67" - 3571 - "accuracy not acceptable"

    .243 Win.
    75 gr Win HP - 49.0 - Win case - W120 - 2.71" - 3191
    85 gr Win HP - 47.5 - Win case - W120 - 2.71" - 3051
    87 gr Horn SP - 47.5 - Norma case - W120 - 2.69" - 3029 - "best accuracy with 87-gr"
    100 gr Sierra - 45.0 - Federal case - W120 - 2.75" - "loud muzzle blast"
    105 gr Speer - 44.0 - Federal case - F210M - 2.75" - 2689 - "best accuracy with 105-gr"

    6mm Remington
    85 gr Speer SPBT - 48.0 - RP case - 9 M - 2.85" - 3049
    100 gr Horn SP - 47.0 - RP case - 9 M - 2.85" - 2929
    100 gr Sierra spitzer - 46.0 - Federal case - 9 M - 2.85" - 2843 - "very accurate"

    .257 Roberts
    100 gr Horn SP - 48.0 - Super-X case - CCI250 - 2.80" - 2820
    117 gr Sierra FBSP - 45.0 - Super-X case - W120 - 2.76" - 2590 - "very accurate"
    117 gr Sierra FBSP - 47.0 - Super-X case - W120 - 2.76" - 2811 - "accurate"
    120 gr Speer SPBT - 44.5 - Super-X case - CCI250 - 2.76" - 2615
    120 gr Speer SPBT - 46.0 - Super-X case - CCI250 - 2.76" - 2684

    .25-06 Remington
    100 gr Sierra spitzer - 56.0 - Win case - 9 M - 3.15" - 3185
    100 gr Sierra spitzer - 57.0 - Win case - 9 M - 3.15" - 3229
    117 gr Sierra spitzer flat base - 53.0 - RP case - 9 M - 3.17" - 2933
    117 gr Sierra spitzer flat base - 54.0 - RP case - 9 M - 3.17" - 3046
    120 gr Horn HP - 53.5 - RP case - 9 M - 3.20" - 3012
    120 gr Speer spitzer BT - 52.0 - RP case - 9 M - 3.17" - 2875

    .270 Winchester
    130 gr Sierra Spitzer - 59.0 - RP case - W120 - 3.33" - 2954 - "extremely accurate; under 1 MOA"
    130 gr Sierra Spitzer - 60.0 - RP case - W120 - 3.33" - 3021
    130 gr Sierra Spitzer - 61.0 - RP case - W120 - 3.33" - 3033 - "excessive pressure - do not use!"
    150-gr Sierra Spitzer - 57.0 - RP case - W120 - 3.33" - 2809 - "most accurate 150-gr load tested"
    150-gr Sierra Spitzer - 58.0 - RP case - W120 - 3.33" - 2880 - "1 MOA"

    7x57mm Mauser
    160 gr Speer FB spitzer - 50.0 - Win case - W120 - 3.07" - 2542
    175 gr Sierra BT spitzer - 51.0 - RP case - 9 M - 3.13" - 2563 - "poor accuracy"

    7mm-08
    145 gr Speer - 49.0 - RP case - 9 M - 2.79" - 2740 - "very accurate"
    154 gr Horn - 19.0 - RP case - 9 M - 2.79" - 2681
    160 gr Speer - 50.0 - RP case - 9 M - 2.79" - 2699
    170 gr Sierra - 49.0 - RP case - 9 M - 2.80" - 2553

    7mm Express Remington (.280 Remington)
    168 gr Sierra Match King - 56.0 - RP case - 3.33" - 2762
    175 gr Sierra BT spitzer - 56.0 - RP case - 9 M - 3.34" - 2733

    7mm Remington Magnum
    145 gr Speer BT - 68.0 - Federal case - CCI250 - 3.28" - 3144 - "accurate, do not exceed!"
    150 gr Nosler Partition - 67.0 - RP case - CCI250 - 3.28" - 3019
    160 gr Sierra BT - 66.0 - Federal case - F215 - 3.29" - 3001 - "accurate load"
    175 gr Horn - 63.0 - Federal case - CCI250 - 3.28" - 2795

    7x64mm Brenneke
    140 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip - 58.0 - RWS case - 9 M - 3.32" - 2755 - "accuracy only fair"
    160 gr Sierra BT spitzer - 55.0 - RWS case - 9 M - 3.32" - 2687 - "accurate"
    170 gr Sierra RNSP - 53.5 - reformed RP .30-06 - 9 M - 3.29" - 2569 - "accurate"
    175 gr Horn Spire Point - 54.0 - RWS - 9 M - 3.32" - 2573

    .30-'06
    180 gr Win Silvertip - 55.5 - Win case - W120 - 3.26" - 2537
    190 gr Win Match HP - 56.0 - Win case - W120 - 3.27" - 2570 - "fine match load"
    220 gr Win Power Point - 55.0 - Win case - W120 - 3.28" - 2427

    .300 H&H Magnum
    165 gr Speer BT spitzer - 71.0 - Win case - CCI250 - 3.60" - 2930 - B accuracy
    180 gr Horn SP - 71.0 - Win case - CCI250 - 3.60" - 2837 - A accuracy
    180 gr Sierra BT spitzer - 70.0 - Win case - CCI250 - 3.60" - C accuracy
    200 gr Nosler Partition - 69.0 - Win case - CCI250 - 3.60" - 2729 - A accuracy
    220 gr Sierra RNSP - 69.0 - Win case - CCI250 - 3.55" - 2640 - "best accuracy with 220 gr SP"
    A = 1 1/16 to 1 " at 100 yds.
    B = 1 9/16 to 2"
    C = 2 1/16 to 2 "

    8mm Remington Magnum
    170 gr Speer Semi-spitzer - 82.0 - RP case - 9 M - 3.60" - 3100 - "accuracy poor"
    220 gr Horn Spire Point - 77.5 - RP case - 9 M - 3.60" - 2827 - "accuracy good"

    .338 Winchester Magnum
    200 gr Win - 75.0 - Win case - W120 - 3.33" - 2806 - "accurate"
    225 gr Horn - 74.0 - Win case - RWS - 3.33" - 2747 - "poor accuracy"
    250 gr Win - 73.0 - Win case - RWS - 3.33" - 2567
    250 gr Win - 74.0 - Win case - W120 - 3.33" - 2638 - "full case"
    300 gr Win - 70.0 - Win case - W120 - 3.33" - 2414

    .348 Winchester
    200 gr Winchester Silvertip - 66.0 - Win case - W120 - 2.790" - 2418" - 3.25 to 4" at 100 yds; maximum, do not exceed.
    250 gr Colorado Custom - 61.0 - Win case - W120 - 2.750" - 2164 - 2.5 to 3.25"
    250 Winchester Silvertip - 60.0 - Win case - W120 - 2.775" - unk. - 1.5 to 2.5" - "good load"

    From: Speer #10

    .225 Winchester - Win case, CCI250
    70-gr - 34.0 to 38.0 - 2723 to 3111 fps

    .243 Winchester - Win case, CCI 250
    75-gr - 46.5 to 50.5 - 3038 to 3322 fps
    80-gr - 46.0 to 50.0 - 2982 to 3238
    85-gr - 46.0 to 50.0 - 3045 to 3353
    90-gr - 45.0 to 49.0 - 2864 to 3109
    105-gr - 42.0 to 46.0 - 2639 to 2937

    6mm and .244 Remington - Win case, CCI250
    75-gr - 48.0 to 52.0 - 3128 to 3402 fps
    80-gr - 47.0 to 51.0 - 3066 to 3346
    85-gr - 47.0 to 51.0 - 3043 to 3349
    90-gr - 47.0 to 51.0 - 3056 to 3318
    105-gr - 45.0 to 49.0 - 2878 to 3127

    .257 Roberts - Win case, CCI250
    100-gr - 46.0 to 50.0 - 2744 to 3007 fps
    120-gr - 43.0 to 47.0 - 2578 to 2749

    .25-'06 Remington - Win case, CCI250
    87-gr - 55.0 to 59.0 - 3097 to 3346 fps
    100-gr - 53.0 to 57.0 - 2985 to 3240
    120-gr - 51.0 to 55.0 - 2806 to 3045

    6.5x55mm Swedish Mauser - Norma case, CCI250
    120-gr - 49.0 to 53.0 - 2466 to 2703 fps
    140-gr - 45.0 to 49.0 - 2252 to 2476

    6.5 Remington Magnum - RP case, CCI250
    120-gr - 50.0 to 54.0 - 2529 to 2754 fps
    140-gr - 48.0 to 52.0 - 2396 to 2610

    .264 Winchester Magnum - Win case, CCI250
    120-gr - 61.0 to 65.0 - 2993 to 3210 fps
    140-gr - 56.0 to 60.0 - 2689 to 2939

    .270 Winchester - Win case, CCI250
    130-gr - 56.0 to 60.0 - 2736 to 2946 fps
    150-gr - 54.0 to 58.0 - 2587 to 2814

    7x57mm Mauser - Win case, CCI250
    130-gr - 51.0 to 55.0 - 2497 to 2698 fps
    145-gr - 50.0 to 54.0 - 2427 to 2614
    160-gr - 49.0 to 53.0 - 2402 to 2584
    175-gr - 48.0 to 52.0 - 2298 to 2509

    .280 Remington (7mm Express Remington) - RP case, CCI250
    115-gr - 60.0 to 64.0 - 2933 to 3198 fps
    130-gr - 56.0 to 60.0 - 2724 to 2974
    145-gr - 54.0 to 58.0 - 2573 to 2805
    160-gr - 51.0 to 55.0 - 2376 to 2595
    175-gr - 48.0 to 52.0 - 2221 to 2455

    .284 Winchester - Win case, CCI250
    115-gr - 60.0 to 64.0 - 2918 to 3143 fps
    130-gr - 57.0 to 61.0 - 2752 to 2986
    145-gr - 59.0 to 63.0 - 2756 to 3006
    160-gr - 56.0 to 60.0 - 2563 to 2801
    175-gr - 54.0 to 58.0 - 2437 to 2651

    7mm Remington Magnum - Win case, CCI250
    130-gr - 63.0 to 67.0 - 3008 to 3219 fps
    145-gr - 62.0 to 66.0 - 2903 to 3071
    160-gr - 60.0 to 64.0 - 2737 to 2929
    175-gr - 58.0 to 62.0 - 2598 to 2786

    .300 H&H Magnum - Win case, CCI250
    150-gr - 70.0 to 74.0 - 2881 to 3113 fps
    165-gr - 68.0 to 72.0 - 2787 to 3014
    180-gr - 69.0 to 73.0 - 2781 to 3005
    200-gr - 66.0 to 70.0 - 2643 to 2857

    .308 Norma Magnum- Norma case, CCI250
    130-gr - 77.0 to 81.0 - 3141 to 3372 fps
    150-gr - 72.0 to 76.0 - 2860 to 3078
    165-gr - 70.0 to 74.0 - 2749 to 2904
    180-gr - 68.0 to 72.0 - 2632 to 2850
    200-gr - 66.0 to 70.0 - 2537 to 2747

    .300 Winchester Magnum - Win case, CCI250
    130-gr - 81.0 to 85.0 - 3227 to 3447 fps
    150-gr - 74.0 to 78.0 - 2951 to 3118
    165-gr - 72.0 to 76.0 - 2774 to 2995
    180-gr - 70.0 to 74.0 - 2701 to 2910
    200-gr - 68.0 to 72.0 - 2635 to 2845

    8mm Remington Magnum - RP case, CCI250
    150-gr - 86.0 to 90.0 - 3203 to 3365 fps
    170-gr - 80.0 to 84.0 - 2963 to 3127
    200-gr - 75.0 to 79.0 - 2766 to 2920

    .338 Winchester Magnum - Win case, CCI250
    200-gr - 74.0 to 78.0 - 2683 to 2893 fps
    250-gr - 70.0 to 74.0 - 2519 to 2724
    275-gr - 68.0 to 72.0 - 2397 to 2542

    I left out the Weatherby Mangl'ems. If you need them, let me know. This powder doesn't seem to be suited to cast bullet loads.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check