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Thread: Wc867 & 872

  1. #21
    Boolit Master mroliver77's Avatar
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    I have not found any mention of using jacketed bullets with these powders anywhere. Even though we are a CB site I will still ask; has anybody used these powders with condom bullets in the 06 class of cartridges?

    There is way more resistance and I "assume" that would help these powders burn better, no? If you buy 6 8lb jugs wideners eats the hazmat. At $39. per 8 that gets it down to a tad over 3 cents a round for powder. I have many thousands of 150gr condoms and a couple heavy .30 cal moulds.

    Anybody near Toledo want to go in on some powder?
    J
    "The .30-06 is never a mistake." Townsend Whelen

    "THESE are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph."
    Thomas Paine

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by mroliver77 View Post
    I have not found any mention of using jacketed bullets with these powders anywhere. Even though we are a CB site I will still ask; has anybody used these powders with condom bullets in the 06 class of cartridges?

    There is way more resistance and I "assume" that would help these powders burn better, no? If you buy 6 8lb jugs wideners eats the hazmat. At $39. per 8 that gets it down to a tad over 3 cents a round for powder. I have many thousands of 150gr condoms and a couple heavy .30 cal moulds.

    Anybody near Toledo want to go in on some powder?
    J
    Some of the same things I was wondering. I've got a 338-06 project in the works and was wondering how this powder might perform behind a 225gr jacketed bullet.

    If I were still living in Adrian, I'd take you up on that offer.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
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    Shot some WC 860 yesterday in my 338/06 Imp. 240 grain gas check bullet, Federal 215, vel was 1877 with an sd of 25. Accuracy was good, no vertical, horizontal was 2 inches. Snowing pretty good, NE wind gusting to 20+, shooting north. POI was about 1 inch higher than where 275 grain Speer hits.
    Works better in the 30/06 with heavy bullets like the 30/247 or the 311284. I would like to attain 2000 fps or close for my cast hunting loads.
    WC 867 and 872 just got delivered, will do some load workup as time and weather allows, probably going to very similar to WC 860 though.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    It does ok with jacketed. Unless you have a big mag cartridge, 5 gr of SR 4759 with the cannon powder added to the seating depth and a light compression will at least help get consistent burn a little above 2000 fps.

    DON'T mix the powders.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master
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    going to try 3 grains of 4759 as a kicker charge under 60 grains of 860 and a 300 grain gas check in my 338/06. Also will try 50 grains of 852 and see if any load will get to 2000 fps.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
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    The 6.5 x 55/WC-860 data I gave earlier used 140 grain jacketed bullets, Hornady #2630 IIRC.
    "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."--Winston Churchill

  7. #27
    Boolit Master mroliver77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9.3X62AL View Post
    The 6.5 x 55/WC-860 data I gave earlier used 140 grain jacketed bullets, Hornady #2630 IIRC.
    I read right over your post without it soaking in! Garsh I am slipping!


    I found that I have some 180 and 200gr .30 jacketed in the stash.

    These might really help the cannon powder light off!
    J
    "The .30-06 is never a mistake." Townsend Whelen

    "THESE are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph."
    Thomas Paine

  8. #28
    Boolit Master
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    In my earlier post I mentioned that 46 grs. of 860 would work the action of an M1. This information was somewhat premature and based on my experience with 872. Now I find that with 46 grs. of 860 the first shot worked the action ok but left the barrel and breach so filled with unburned powder the second round would not chamer. Went to 54 grs. and can fire 4-6 rds. before failure to chamber. Buckshot recommends up to 55 grs., but even with 54 there is considerable recoil and it's slaming the bolt back pretty hard. All this with magnum primers and the Lee 200 gr bullet. I have used surplus 4831 at 41 grs. in my M1 for years but ran out. What are you M1 shooters experiencing with 860?

  9. #29
    Boolit Master
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    I solved the problem of unburned 860 fouling an M1 by loading 55 grs. with 3 grs of 3031 as a kicker and 1 gr. of dacron for a filler. M1 cycled smartly, no unburned powder, cartridges ran through it smoothly. Accuracy was terrible. Started reducing the charge of 860 and have arrived at 43 grs. with the above kicker and filler and with a magnum primer. Function is the same but the accuracy has improved. Bought 6 jugs of 872 from Wideners and find the same load works well with that powder.

  10. #30
    Boolit Bub
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    Hydraulic, if I am reading this correctly you could not get the Garand to burn clean enough to cycle without using the kicker? I am interested in these powders if I can get cast to cycle the action and shoot accurately.

    Thanks

  11. #31
    Boolit Master
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    burr: Yes, that has been my experience. The jug of 860 said to use the starting load for H870, which was 10% below the recommended 60 grains, or 54 grains, and then to reduce that another 15% which came out at 43 grs. As I mentioned above, the first round fired ok, but the second would not chamber because of so much unburned powder. I kept increasing the powder charge, 2 grs. at a time, until I reached 55, when the recoil became vicious. At this point, I started using a kicker; 3 grs. 3031, a dacron filler, and a Mag primer. The accuracy was terrible, so I began reducing the charge and arrived back at 43 which works well; burns clean, shoots accurately, comfortable to shoot, and cycles the action smartly.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master
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    I use a case full of WC860 under 160 grain RN JSPs in the 6.5x55 with excellent results. "Factory" ballistics in the 29" barrel, somewhat less than factory velocity from my 22" truck gun. I haven't used the real slow powders with lighter bullets as I still have about 10 lb of WC852(s) which is unbeatable under the 120 and 140 grain bullets in 6.5x55.

    15 years ago I did load work up with WC860 and WC872 in the .270WBY mag using 150 grain Nosler Partitions. I got acceptable results, +/- one MOA at a little over 3,000 fps. However I was unhappy with the velocity variation due to temperature, (+/- 200 fps between 20 deg and 80 deg if I remember), and was somewhat concerned with what might occur on a really hot day out west. As that .270WBY is a hunting rifle, not a "shooter", I'm spending the $ on Retumbo for it these days.
    BD

  13. #33
    Boolit Master AZ-JIM's Avatar
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    Has anyone used the wc872 in the 7mm magnum? My dad has a load worked up for his that will cloverleaf 3 rds at 100 yds but it uses h870. I have enough left to make about three more rounds and haven't tried AA8700 yet. This load is also with full length gas checks. What are your findings with jacketed and cast using the 872?

    az-jim
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  14. #34
    Boolit Master
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    My 7mm Magnum LOVES WC872. First loads I ran through it are touching at 100. I don't have the data handy, but I was using 168gr Bergers and some heavy sierras and accuracy was stellar on both.
    It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed.

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  15. #35
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_Stihl View Post
    My 7mm Magnum LOVES WC872. First loads I ran through it are touching at 100. I don't have the data handy, but I was using 168gr Bergers and some heavy sierras and accuracy was stellar on both.
    How many grains of 872 are you loading in the 7mm? I am debating ordering it to use it for my 7mm Rem Mag

  16. #36
    Boolit Designer 45 2.1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mroliver77 View Post
    I have not found any mention of using jacketed bullets with these powders anywhere. Even though we are a CB site I will still ask; has anybody used these powders with condom bullets in the 06 class of cartridges?

    There is way more resistance and I "assume" that would help these powders burn better, no? If you buy 6 8lb jugs wideners eats the hazmat. At $39. per 8 that gets it down to a tad over 3 cents a round for powder. I have many thousands of 150gr condoms and a couple heavy .30 cal moulds.

    Anybody near Toledo want to go in on some powder?
    J
    J-
    867 is an excellent powder providing its loaded right. I and others have used 867 extensively in the 308 with jacketed and cast............ there was little difference in burning rate regardless of boolit or bullet. This is a slow powder that is somewhat temperature sensitive. It is a first rate cold weather powder. To get results out of 867, you have to use a booster charge....... not any of the shotgun powders either.... use the faster burning rifle powders in the 5 to 8 gr. charge level with a full case of 867 on top of it, compressed lightly by the boolit. You can get MOA or a little less at long range doing this PROVIDED the boolit fits very well.
    45 2.1

    Knowledge without understanding is a dangerous thing. For a little knowledge entices us to walk its path, a bit more provides the foundation on which we take our stand, and a sufficient amount can erect a wall of knowledge around us, trapping us in our own ignorance.

    Never sleep, never die

    Knowledge is easy to get, but worthless if you never use it. However the info is free, so the only person you have to blame is yourself if you chose not to use the information.

  17. #37

    .38 special with wc867 powder

    I have loaded wc867 in a .38 special with a 147 grn 9mm lead bullet. shooting it out of my winchester lever, sounds like a pellet gun , still goes out 100 plus yards..Lots of fun...

    I have even used it on my .223 , very nice. Quiet dont need ear plugs..But only in a bolt action. You can shoot it out of a ar , but it is dirty and my clog the gas piston...

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by AZ-JIM View Post
    Has anyone used the wc872 in the 7mm magnum? My dad has a load worked up for his that will cloverleaf 3 rds at 100 yds but it uses h870. I have enough left to make about three more rounds and haven't tried AA8700 yet. This load is also with full length gas checks. What are your findings with jacketed and cast using the 872?

    az-jim
    I have used wc867. I think they are the same? I just load them up with just enogh room for the bullet.. Worked great for me...

  19. #39
    Boolit Master
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    jacketed

    In answer to the j bullet use, wc867 gives 3146 fps in my girlfriend's 270 Weatherby using 140 gr Barnes TSX and 81 grs if powder.

    Aaron

  20. #40
    Boolit Master
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    More J-word data

    My WC867 is the current batch from Widner's.

    338 Winchester Mag, Kimber Montana with a 21 inch barrel( not Factory length)
    77grs pushes a 250gr Combined Technology Partition to 2620 FPS.

    I have some for a 416 Rigby and Hornady 400 SP that I will post as well.

    With jacketed, it burns slightly slower than H-1000.

    Aaron

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check