Cast Boolits AR15 Upper

[82nd airborne]

you know whats cool Russel? A glock 22 40 s&w 32 rd mag fits perfectly into an ar mag well!

[82nd airborne]

Hopefully, for these castboolit wildkitties, we can start a thread for SAFE load data that we can develop as a whole, and get a huge range of loads to work with for each others benifit. I think that would be nice having several pages of load data for these new cartridges within weeks of when they are in your hands. It would make the cartridges all the more effective. we will post the data we have come up with, which is a substantial amount. But of course this will be just for research purposes only, of course we wouldnt suggest that regular ppl load their own... how crazy would that be!?!?!

[dk17hmr]

The 10mm magnum upper has my interest. I am not familiar with the magpul fore end, is it free float? I am a fan of these free floats from PK Firearms, they run about $55.


What type of barrel lengths and what size threads for a muzzle break/can?

[82nd airborne]

Doug, threads will depend on caliber, if there is a forend you prefer,we can put it on, or send it to you without a forend, if you already have one you want to use. The mag pul in question is not a free float i dont think, this would be mainly for pistol caliber uppers, I wouldnt built a rifle w/ semi long range capabilities that wasnt free floated, unless the custome specifically asked for it.

[Dannix]

At what point would lead or lube could clog up the gas system when shoot boolits in the AR?

Russel, since you're reloading .45, you could give the .460 Rowland a look. One thing I thought would be neat is something designed for .460 Rowland pressures, but chambered to headspace .45 Auto brass. This way you can just shoot .45 ACP as normal, but also (with the right brass, cutting down et al) shoot higher pressures as well. I'm not sure if the AR platform can handle .460 Rowland pressures though. Regarding magazines, .460R is the same OAL as .45Auto.

[Just Duke]

I will contact the owner of C-Products LLC, (an outstanding company that produces mags) .

I hope there's a new owner of this company because I had bad luck with the owner. Probably made it easier for Magpul to blow right past them in the business world. Try contacting a Drake at Magpul. Much friendlier bunch and are very open minded about new concepts. Unlike the previous vendor stated in your post 82nd, Magpul employees are REAL engineers with endless amounts of highly advance concepts/innovation and not a retired LEO doing a restamping on a expired patent design.
P.S. I got the very first 10 P-mags that came out of the machine and was called and said <Drake at Magpul> "I'm throwing these in a box right now and there HOT HOT!!! Beat the heck out of them!!!" And so I did. Barbie and I threw them at walls and threw them to other shooters short! hitting the ground in front of them and they still worked!

PRI is a very professional company too. http://www.pri-mounts.com/mm5/mercha..._Code=SPECIALS

Well that said..... I'm very interested in a .50 cal.


First batch of tan mags here.

[Just Duke]

The 10mm magnum upper has my interest. I am not familiar with the magpul fore end, is it free float? I am a fan of these free floats from PK Firearms, they run about $55.


What type of barrel lengths and what size threads for a muzzle break/can?

These are all I use. My good buddy Scott owns this company and again does all the highly innovative concepts on many weapons platforms. http://www.samson-mfg.com/ar-15_html...cessories.html
Scott is a great guy and we are not friends but life long friends.

[Just Duke]

I spoke with Ken (.45NUT) on the phone earlier today to discuss an idea Dave and I have been tossing around for some time, which is laid out below:

We (Delta Company Arms L.L.C.) would like to offer ar-15 uppers in calibers that are ideal for cast boolits ie, 10mm mag. throated to take a 400gr cast boolit, 450.-284(bushmaster), and so on. This upper will be offered only on this website, and only to its members. It will have the cast boolits logo engraved on the side, and can be had in most colors offered by kg Gunkote. Barrel length and caliber are up to the customer, as is color and hand gaurd selection. Possibly side charge depending on how many people want it, we could tool up for it. The uppers are slab side uppers, which means they have no forward assist or brass deflector, with an integral a-3 flat top. All barrels are from Mc Gowan Precision Barrel, llc. which are excellent barrels.

I will make one with the engraved logo and post a pic, then people can start ordering. As this is just an upper, there is no paperwork or ffl required.

HERE is the kicker: we will take a percentage off of the top of every upper sold to build a moving fund for Ken. I will figure up the cost to build such a monster, and try to keep it close to or under the price of any other premium upper and post it with the pics, then specify the exact dollar amount going to help ken, so you know what money is going where.

The purpouse of this thread is to find out how much intrest there is for such a rig, and how many parts we need to begin aquiring, as well as what feasable calibers you the members would like to see. This site is my second home, (just ask my wife!) and We would like to do this little tribute, as well as help our site owner out.

so, tap in any suggestions, questions or condesending remarks below, to give us an idea of where/when to start.

We are also considering doing an 06-.44 that will work in an ar. let me know what you think below. specify your caliber of choice. Or just tell me if im crazy and Ill drop it.

Our warranty is this, If you are unhappy with any of our products, we will make you happy with it on our dollar, in a timely manner. This is for the origional owner, and we will do our best to do the same for any other owner. This doesnt cover being dumb tho.

I have used KG Coatings Products for 5 or 6 years now with excellent results, I think Dan here has seen KG paint results. I am setting up to completely paint 3 M14 rifles in green as my new project. Bolts and all! I have even painted 50 of my AR-10 mags with their paint. Ask me for the pic. They too are real good buddies of mine and I hope Joe's and his son Chris's move to Texas to their new and vastly larger state of the art facility is going well. http://www.kgcoatings.com/index.php?p=catalog








A few of my AR-10's

[82nd airborne]

Duke, thanks for the advice, Ill definately keep that in mind and try em all. Maybe you could put a word in for us with your buddy at magpul, that way when I cal him hes ready for my rediculous ideas? I have used both pri and magpul, and both are great products, though I havent dealt with them on a buisness basis, I would like to change that tho. Thus far, c-produts has treated us quite well giving us free samples when we tell them we would like to try something new and such. Thanks Duke,
Aaron
will look into those forends as well

[82nd airborne]

wow duke, youre better looking than i thought. look at you in your multicam!lol

[Just Duke]

wow duke, youre better looking than i thought. look at you in your multicam!lol

Why a.............. thank you?
Here I am after just getting my nails done. HERE

Well most here know I'm not real photogenic. Just ask Lloyd. Hence the pics of Barbie and not myself lol.

[Russel Nash]

82nd airborne wrote:

you know whats cool Russel? A glock 22 40 s&w 32 rd mag fits perfectly into an ar mag well!

Yes, that is cool!

Again, thank you!



Hmmmn...okay...I am a little confused...maybe it is because I haven't gone all ga-ga eyed over the piston AR's or piston conversion kits, butttt....

I am ASSuming that a folding stock AR (like the Para TTR I posted a link to back on page 4) would have to use some sort of proprietary handguards/forearm to get the bolt/bolt carrier group to spring shut/go back into battery???

And not just any ol' free float tubes that were meant for original direct impingement guns???

Maybe you AR afficianado's could clue me in???

[Just Duke]

82nd airborne wrote:



Yes, that is cool!

Again, thank you!



Hmmmn...okay...I am a little confused...maybe it is because I haven't gone all ga-ga eyed over the piston AR's or piston conversion kits, butttt....

I am ASSuming that a folding stock AR (like the Para TTR I posted a link to back on page 4) would have to use some sort of proprietary handguards/forearm to get the bolt/bolt carrier group to spring shut/go back into battery???

And not just any ol' free float tubes that were meant for original direct impingement guns???

Maybe you AR afficianado's could clue me in???

This is true Russel. My buddies at Daniels Defense make a tube suited perfectly for direct impingement.

[82nd airborne]

I may have confused you some. The side folder I am referring to is for our blowbacks at this point. Up to this point of the development, most free float tubes should work. we still have to test quite a bit though, before we go into full production, we need to see that they work well without failing under adverse conditions and neglect and which parts wear with heavy firing, if any. We havent even tried the whole side folder deal in a gas op yet. It would be very similar tho, a few more moving parts added.

[Russel Nash]

I don't mean to drift this thread too far off topic, but:

the latest Shotgun News Treasury has an article by Fortier about the Para TTR. In that article, he has many detailed pics and info about how the TTR is put together. Just doing a quick google image search, this is one pic I found:



here is a YouTube video of Todd Jarret and the TTR:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrFu6...layer_embedded

as far as I know, the story of the TTR starts out with Alan Ziha (Zitta???...I have seen and heard his name spelled two different ways) needing a gun at the Masters that was a repeater unlike the Remington XP-100's he was competing against. So coming up with an AR "pistol" that didn't have a buffer tube was his answer. Then, IIRC, IPSC competitor Jerry Barnhart saw it and told Ziha that there were some Army units who might be interested in his design.

And I am guessing that because of a lack of marketing it never really took off in the civilian sector. I think Yankee Hill Machine had bought the rights for it, and was building something like that, or maybe just an upper....I guess...under license. And that wasn't much of a success.

Then Para took it over.

what kind of success Para will have with it, I think, remains to be seen.

I am just speculating here, but I would say that with the proliferation of all the piston driven uppers and retrofit kits that has chipped away at Para's market share.

People only have so much money to blow on AR-ish like toys.

[RANGER RICK]

I think this thread has my attention !!!!

RR

[redneckdan]

I'm not convinced with piston driven ARs. I see the need in this application to chop off the end of carrier. The issue is that the AR carrier is designed to have the force applied along the center line of the carrier assembly. What essentially is happening with an op rod is the force is applied to a lever which will cause the carrier to tip within the receiver as it cycles. This is physics...there is no way around it. This tipping will cause certain points of the carrier to bear with more force against the receiver. This definitely is not an improvement and more than likely will cause increased wear. Now if wear pads of some sort will implement into the receiver then this may not be an issue. Just be aware that a standard AR upper is not designed with this change in mind. I guess it would be possible to support the op rod where it pass into the receiver but you'd still be dealing with a slender column, euler bucking load....yada yada yada...even then the op rod would still probably allow the carrier to tip. There is a reason the ar-180 uses dual rods to guide the carrier. Now if the side folder is for a blow back action then these problems are probably none existant. The force would be applied along the centerline just as it is with a DI system. Anyway, engineering rant off.

[82nd airborne]

Im not sure i get what youre saying, the impact on the bolt is in the same location with both systems, no?

[redneckdan]

You'd think so. I certainly did till I really looked at what was going on. The gas is piped down into the carrier and actually pushes between the bolt and carrier. This causes the carrier to move backwards and yank the bolt out of battery through the action of the cam machined into the bolt. The gas key only serves to pipe the gas into the carrier. The force is applied along the centerline of the carrier.

With a gas piston the force is being applied at some distance from the center line. This distance will act as a lever arm and cause the carrier to tilt, even if the piston rod is rigidly attached to the carrier. The mass of the stationary carrier will cause the slender piston rod to slightly buckle when the piston applies force during cycling. This buckling will allow the carrier to tilt there by cause uneven wear on the upper.

[82nd airborne]

even though its not what the origional engineer had in mind, I'd say its alright, this is just my opinion tho, which is no better than anyone elses. I think the two operating systems have their own strong points.

Also, on a 5.56 anyway. if you take the gas key off, it is solid, not a thru hole so the gas cant really get into the carrier if im not mistaken. but, im not looking at one at the moment so i could be wrong. the back of the bolt carrier is hollow, so wouldnt the gas just blow out the back of the carrier or am i missing something.