Lyman IDEAL 452423

[Doby45]

I need to get that insert. That is a purdy roll crimp, my RCBS does not roll crimp very well.

[C1PNR]

My Brother and I have been shooting these at full power out of our 1911's, including the Argentine model, for many years. From my old 2 C they weigh in at 238 grains with my WW alloy.

Accuracy has always been consistent with what that particular handgun would produce. About my only complaint is that the Para doesn't digest them as well as the others. I'm still using RN in it, at least until I get it a little more broken in.

It's also a favorite in my RBH as a plinker that saves a little lead vs the 454424 that weighs in at 264 gr.

I've always viewed the 452423 as one of most versatile .45 handgun styles around.

[Dale53]

Doby45;
You will need to call Lee and ask for a technician who is familiar with .45 ACP+.45 Auto Rim dies. They were extremely helpful to me and sent me the insert+spacer promptly. I consider it a NECESSARY part of my .45 ACP/.45 Auto Rim die set.

Dale53

[mroliver77]

This was one of my first molds. A Lyman single cav. It drops WW at .456+. I bought the Lee GB 6 cav some years ago and it is a nice mold. This boolit shoots very well out of a 1937 Brazilion gun, my .45 Colts love it and a few diferent 1911's have shot it and fed it well. One of my favorite boolits. The Lyman single cavity is Beagled and drops at .460. Sized through my .459 die they are loaded in 45-70 for an awesome plinker! Miha was supposed to do a HP in this design.
J

[Ben]

Dale53

A few have had critical remarks to make about NOE molds, not me .......! !

AL makes some fine molds. They are well worth the money !

Ben

[Char-Gar]

I am glad to folks continue to rediscover this great bullet. It was indeed designed by Elmer Keith for the Colt and Smith and Wesson 1917s DA sixguns in 45 ACP. His load was 7.5/Unique over this bullet. I shoot this load on a regular basis through post war sixguns but consider it to hot for the old pre-war sixguns.

Skeeter Skelton wrote an article many years ago entitled "Poor Man's Magnum" where he loaded the heavier 260 grain Keith over this charge and shot it through a Colt 1917. After the article was published he succeeded in cracking the cylinder of his pistol. He had the pistol re-barreled and re-cylindered to 44 Special. I owned this pistol for a short time...like two hours!)

452423 does well in the 45 Colt out to 100 yards or so. I like 9/Unique in the 45 Colt case. It still is just the huckleberry for the 1911 pistol in 45 ACP. 4/7/BE does the trick for me. The notion of getting hit with this bullet makes me queasy. I have seen what it does to deer and lesser critters.

There is nothing magic about the heavier Keith bullet for the 45 Colt. Just load 8.5/Unique and shoot away. It can be pushed harder, but why?

[mroliver77]

Seems like it was mebbe Charger got me to shooting this boolit out of my 1911. It is still mt go to boolit for loading to kill things. I have only tried it in 4 or 5 1911 but none had any feeding problems whatsoever. My books told me that it would not feed. A few old timers with EXPERIENCE said it would work fine so I tried it.
One reason I fell in love with the internet right away as it put many of us with like minds together to pool our knowledge when before it was all but impossible to do that. I shot this boolit in the 1937 Brazillion but knew a SWC Kieth would never work in an auto(My books said so) In some ways these are the good ole days!
Jay

[Dale53]

Lyman has disappointed me of late and one of the reasons is they have been dropping several very useful designs. This (454423 or 452423) is one. No one else makes a similar bullet design, to the best of my knowledge. I DID find an even better bullet in the NOE 454424 bullet as I have mentioned but I use mine in a couple of current S&W 625's.

Another of Lyman's decisions was to drop the great Keith 452424 in four cavity moulds (they still list it in a two cavity mould). I surely don't understand THAT one. I understand, that with the great interest in Cowboy Action shooting, that the Lyman 452664 is better adapted to companion lever guns but surely there is room for both?

Sounds like to me that there is a lot of, "Penny wise and pound foolish" going on in that outfit...

But, that is just me...

I do have a comment on using the 454423 bullet in a 1911. The bullet is designed to seat to a depth in the case where the crimp groove is used (original design was for revolver use). If you taper crimp just below the leading edge of the first band, you will be seating it considerably deeper than originally intended. That means that the pressures, in that rather small case, would be considerably higher compared to "normal" seating depth. That calls for a reduction of powder charge. I have no pressure test results that conclusively show this, but-t-t... I would suggest that any who intend to use this in a 1911 carefully consider this when deciding on a powder charge. I would compare it to the seating depth of a Lyman 452374 (nominal 230 gr Round Nose) and act accordingly. The slight extra weight compared to the 230 gr RN is not nearly so big a concern to me as the reduction of powder space might be.

Just be safe, folks.

Dale53

[Char-Gar]

Just a little adendum with Dale's caveat in mind. To be certain, Dale is correct in that the reduced powder capacity when 452423 is seated in the ACP case for use in the autopistol, is indeed a matter of concern. I have determined that 4.5 to .4.8 grains of Bullseye is a safe powder charge to use. I would never go above 4.8 and would start at 4.5 and work up. 4.5 grains is a pretty stout load and I killed several deer with it.

Some folks load the longer/heavier 454424 in the ACP case and that decreases case capacity even more. Frankly, I would not be comfortable in doing that.

I am pretty comfortable with what I said above about the BE loads. I have never worked with any other powder for this combination of bullet, case and pistol. So, if you wander off the Bullseye reservation, your blood be on your own head. Also one needs to be certain his 1911 pistol has not been gunsmith improved into a piece of rattling junk. You also need no less than an 18 lb recoil spring.

[billw]

The Lyman 451423 is not much good for anything. Send it to me, I'll pay $15. Just kidding, it's a good one for 1911 and 45 Long Colt. I don't have one but have a Lee mould similar if not the same in HP, haven't fired it yet, old Lyman, Lee, bunch of moulds here, don't know how many I have including H&G, Saeco and one 58 cal I can't ID.

[Stuckcase]

I prefer 8.5 gr of Imr 800x behind Lyman 452423. Great boolit

[USSR]

Stuckcase,

You're going around bringing up all these threads that are many years old. Try something current or start one of your own.

Don