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Thread: 45 caliber Air Rifle

  1. #41
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    I was just wondering as Hollowpoint said he was going to use a hand pump. If that would work, wouldn't a regular compressor filling a cylinder tank work as well?

    Trying to figure out how these guns work. Do you need special air and a special refill? What's the cost.
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  2. #42
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    The hand pump you need is a special hand pump that works in 2 or 3 stage effect that will pump to 3000 psi. A standard hand pump will not work. The Hill pump is made specifically for pumping to the high pressure. A standard compressor will not fill to the pressure needed for the guns to operate. 3000 psi is needed.

    Regular breathing air is all that is needed. If you have a scuba dive shop nearby, they might fill it for you. Cost varies to fill a 3000 psi tank, you would have to check. Some won't fill without a diver's certificate, you would have to talk to them and see.

    This is the style of pump needed if you are going to hand pump. Probably the most economical, but the most work. 3000 psi can be hard to pump. I don't have a problem, but at 350lbs, I can put my wieght in it. Small guys may have a bit more trouble.
    http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Benjam...er_Rifles/2222

    4500 psi carbon fiber tanks provide the most shots per fill and seem to be worth the money. But you have to find a place that will fill it. I never got one because there is no one around here that will do 4500psi. Only 3000. You can check with paintball stores or fields if you have any nearby as well. Some will fill to 4500, just depends on what they have on hand. The ones here only do CO2 and 3000 fills from nitrogen tanks. Billy
    Lyman 22596,225107,225353,225438,225415,225450,225646, 225462,228367,244203,245496,245497,245498,245499 RCBS 22-55-SP,22-55-FP,243-95-SP,243-100-FP, NEI 100244GC-#14, 55 224 GC-#4,225 45-#3 PB, NOE 22-055 SP,MX2-243,Saeco 221 & 243, RD TLC225-50-RF,Lee 22 Bator 6c & 2c HP. Love casting small boolits, let me know if you have one that I don't that you would part with!

  3. #43
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    Cast Boolits and its richness in membership depth does it again! MANY THANKS to all in this thread who have helped expand my knowledge base of this subject.

    The "hand pump" option reminds me of the Lewis and Clark expedition's use of an air rifle. Of course, Clark's slave 'York' was the designated pump operator on many occasions. That poor soul in a later time likely would do the case trimming and primer pocket crimp removal, too.
    "As democracy is perfected, the office of the President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their hearts' desire at last and the White House will be adorned with a downright moron."--H.L. Mencken

  4. #44
    Boolit Master JIMinPHX's Avatar
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    You can get 3,000psi hand pumps to fill them with, but I hear that it is a lot of work to pump them up that way. Airguns of AZ has those pumps in stock. They also stock the special fittings to connect a scuba tank to an air gun reservoir.

    It costs about $5 to get a 80cf scuba tank filled at a shop. 3,000psi compressors start at around $3,000 for a Maxair 35 & go up from there. The Maxair 35 will fill an 80cf tank in about 20-30 minutes depending on how far you ran the tank down. Maxair compressors are actually still made in Texas, as far as I know.
    “an armed society is a polite society.”
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by JIMinPHX View Post
    Sharpshooter,
    What kind of rifle is that you have & how much does something like that cost?
    It is a Gargoyle, that belongs to a shooting buddy. I cast for him and get to play with it often. Standard version costs a $1000, $1200 for the high power version.

    It is as loud as 38 wadcutters fired from w 4" wheelgun.

    Here is a link http://www.bgmfairguns.com/gargoyle.html


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  6. #46
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    It's 11:45 AM right now and I'm still waiting on the FedX guy.

    I really have to go to the bathroom but, I just know as soon as I sit down that FedX joker will slip in and out like he did yesterday.

    I never realized that so many of you guys had so much experience with big bore air rifles. It's good to have this kind of knowledge source available.

    You know what would be nice? Coming up with a few different bullets designed specifically for these types of rifles, picking the best ones and possibly putting together a group buy for these designs.

    I don't know if there would be enough interest but, I do know that right now most of the guys that shoot the big bore air guns buy their bullets pre-made by entrepreneurs that have jumped on the opportunities that these Big Bore Air Rifles have opened up.

    I've seen images of some of these projectiles that are touted as the latest and greatest. Frankly, alot of those cast bullets may be good but, the cast quality is sometimes laughable. I have to assume that the folks buying these cast bullets don't really know to much about bullet casting.

    I'm afraid that when I make a statement like that I presume to know alot more than I do. The fact is I don't know all that much but, I can tell the difference between a well cast bullet and one that was cast in to much of a hurry. Particularly when their makers show them photographed in close-up images.

    It could be that they are just scrambling to keep up with demand and quality takes a back seat to quantity. This could be a definite heads-up for some of you bullet designers and mold makers here. You may be missing out by waiting to long to get in on this up and coming big bore air rifle phenomenon.

    HollowPoint

  7. #47
    Boolit Master JIMinPHX's Avatar
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    Has anyone ever tried Helium in one of those things? With the super low viscosity of helium's 2-atom molecule, I wonder if it would improve the performance by flowing through the valves faster.
    “an armed society is a polite society.”
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by JIMinPHX View Post
    Has anyone ever tried Helium in one of those things? With the super low viscosity of helium's 2-atom molecule, I wonder if it would improve the performance by flowing through the valves faster.
    Chili beans I had the other night woulda got the job done for sure, with adequate hose fittings and high pressure cylinder.
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by JIMinPHX View Post
    Has anyone ever tried Helium in one of those things? With the super low viscosity of helium's 2-atom molecule, I wonder if it would improve the performance by flowing through the valves faster.
    It has been tried. I think there was some issues with leakage, as the seals in the guns were not sufficient to hold the small helium molecules. Using helium was inefficient and inconsistent. Does allow for much higher velocities, but unless the airgun was built around helium(no one has done such that I know of), performance has been lacking. Just switching was not worth much unless ultimate velocity is the only goal. Because more air is used, ES and SD were high with fewer shots per fill. Helium is often much more expensive as well. Breathing air works well, without all the trouble. Billy
    Lyman 22596,225107,225353,225438,225415,225450,225646, 225462,228367,244203,245496,245497,245498,245499 RCBS 22-55-SP,22-55-FP,243-95-SP,243-100-FP, NEI 100244GC-#14, 55 224 GC-#4,225 45-#3 PB, NOE 22-055 SP,MX2-243,Saeco 221 & 243, RD TLC225-50-RF,Lee 22 Bator 6c & 2c HP. Love casting small boolits, let me know if you have one that I don't that you would part with!

  10. #50
    Boolit Master JIMinPHX's Avatar
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    I'll bet that this would shoot real well out of that thing.

    It's a Hornady #6745 sabot that was designed to let you shoot 9mm & .38 cal slugs out of a .45 cal muzzle loader.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    “an armed society is a polite society.”
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  11. #51
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    Hey PatMarlin, That's high octane stuff. It might burn those shallow lands and grooves clean out of the bore.

    I might tend to lean more toward the sabots that JIMinPHX just showed. That may really work; and not only that, it could also go a long way toward having to keep from changing out barrels to accommodate different calibers.

    I'm out for the night. Talk to you all later.

    HollowPoint

  12. #52
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    I have a Sam Yang and a Haley, both in .45 cal. I personally feel the button bullets are a bit light in these for hunting, but should work great for informal plinking.

    I am working on designing a bullet in the 265-300 grain range. So far I have two molds, but haven't cast bullets with them... YET! Hoping to get them cast this coming week.

    I look forward to what you guys come up with.

    Tom

  13. #53
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    It's not hard to find an accurate boolit for that Sam Yang so long as the diameter is at least .454 I would stick to BHN9 and softer for starters. Thanks to several boolit casters I have met online, I have been able to experiment with a ton of different designs in my own 909 (tuned for more power). Generally speaking, the less contact with the barrel (small bands), the better.

    HollowPoint, you most definitely want to try the .454 EPP/UG's (order sized, and unsized to see which works best for you). They look more like an "airgun design" then any other boolit I have ever seen.
    I was the first airgunner to shoot, and take game (from rabbit to ram) with the BigLube designs (I got mine from Springfield Slim) a few years ago. Since then, I have turned several other airgunners on to the EPP/UG's and have heard only one report that wasn't positive. The EPP/UG is my go-to boolit for target shooting, and small game when I have them around. They are much more air efficient in my own rifle than roundball (probably due to a better seal), and group under an inch center to center at 50 yards off of my steady stix.
    I used the EPP/UG's cast in BHN6 alloy when I went to Wyoming to hunt varmints a couple of years ago......I mostly took headshots. The EPP/UG will remove half of a jackrabbit's head every time, and it doesn't even have much of a meplat to speak of. A large meplat boolit would be gnarly on a jackrabbit.

    For a medium weight boolit, I have had great luck with hollowpoint #454424's cast from both 50/50 WW/pb, and also pure lead at around .457 diameter. Again, under an inch c-to-c @50yards off of my steady stix (which is typical with the better boolit designs).

    I don't always have my calipers with me when target shooting, but my best measured 50 yard group was 3 shots .45inch c-to-c off my steady stix using Springfield Slims .45Slim design.

    You will need a chronograph to dial-in your rifle for best efficiency. Keep the muzzle about 10 feet away from the chrony to assist in getting accurate readings, as the air blast can mess-up your readings.

    Most of the stuff sold as "airgun boolits" are really just regular firearm boolits cast from soft lead. I have personally weighed some heavy hollowpoint commercial "airgun" slugs that had around a 50 grain variance in the batch. Some people just don't understand the meaning of "reject", and will sell anything. These heavy slugs were HP'd with ridiculously deep cavities that went over 3/4's of the way down the boolit so there is no possible way they would expand in a game animal the way a HP boolit is supposed to. Nice gimmick, though.

    The Gargoyle air rifle in the picture above (taken in his living room in Colorado) was owned by a friend of mine (the one I went airgun hunting with in Wyoming, and also in Oklahoma for hogs). The Gargoyle shoulders like a dream, and is available with a few different valves that can be easily swapped out by the owner so you can go from a 6-8 shot 300fpe target gun, to a 600fpe behemoth. Kind of like having a few guns in one.
    The design has been modified from the original, and is now being manufactured by a different person (who bought the rights to the design). Their web-site is being worked on, but check it out when they are done.

    http://gargoyleairgun.com/

    Back to the 909. This link should help you go about finding your rifle's best performance. Write EVERYTHING down for future reference: beginning fill pressure, shot string velocities, end fill pressure (helps to establish efficiency), accuracy results, alloy used, diameter used, etc. Being able to reference all that info will come in handy throughout your testing, and should save you a bunch of ammo.

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=78281

    If you haven't already ordered one, get the foster fitting adapter. The Korean fittings/probe are just ****, and will let you down sooner if not later.

    http://www.bgmfairguns.com/otherproducts.html

    Play with your rifle for a while, then send it in for a power tune and be amazed at the difference! With a tune, I call the 909 plenty good out to 50 yards for anything in North America up to 200-250lbs (I suggest brain shots on big hogs, though).

    Did you get the 909, or the 909S?
    Last edited by Butcher45; 07-24-2010 at 11:09 PM.

  14. #54
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    Almost forgot. This is one of the few designs that is actually airgun specific. I think they were designed specifically for the 909. Everything but the nose profile (WFN) designed by Seth Rowland (aka "BlackHogDown). Mold cut by LBT, and available in four different weights around 240-280(?) grains. Seth sells quality stuff.



    Here is a 50 yard group shot with the 240grain version....bad to the bone!


  15. #55
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    Hey Bucther;

    Thanks for your input. I've read some of your other post and have gotten alot out of them.

    Being chronically cheap by nature I tend to want to make alot of my own stuff; including bullets. That's what lead me to post my initial inquiry about finding some optimal bullet designs for my newly acquired 909S.

    I recently inquired about those foster filler adapters as well. The guy emailed me back to let me know they still had some in stock.

    I'd seen closeup pics of the factory probe on these rifles and came to the conclusion that they might very well be weak-links in the design of this rifle. Who has the cheapest prices on the female ends of these adapters?

    I feel like a little kid at Christmas time. And you know what's funny. I have yet to by the pump to charge it with. All I have is the gun to look at. It's kind of like getting the latest electronic toy as a present but there were no batteries included.

    This will give me some time to take it apart and see what makes it tick.

    HollowPoint

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by melloroadman View Post
    The little screw that holds the cocking lever on has a bad habit of comeing lose and then the lever breaks . Take it out and either put some teflon tap on it or some medium lock tight and check it from time to time .
    Just broke my fourth or fifth cocking lever last Weds. The teflon tape helped keep the screw in, but the metal it is made from is just cheap. Getting a nice cocking lever fabricated from quality steel would be a good idea.

  17. #57
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    Buy the HillPump. It is reputed to be the highest quality handpump on the market, and has re-build kits readily available for it. I hear a lot of horror stories about other pumps having very short lives.

    I get my fittings here.

    http://www.hamcontact.com/airgun/HoseAssembly/

  18. #58
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    This will help you out with tearing it down.

    http://www.network54.com/Forum/41400...28and+a+pic%29

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9.3X62AL View Post
    In Phoenix or Indio, 110* F is almost sweater weather.

    What kind of ballistics are yielded by the roundballs from the PCP rifles?
    The stock SamYang 909 throws roundball at around 750fps. A tuned 909 throws them anywhere from 880-900+fps.

    The Gargoyle (IMO the best thing running in bigbore airguns) with the standard valve throws roundball at around 1020-1050fps I believe.

    Unlike all the other domestic bigbore .45 airguns, the Gargoyle has no waiting list/luck of the draw, and can be ordered TODAY.

  20. #60
    Boolit Master JIMinPHX's Avatar
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    Who are the other domestic big bore manufacturers?
    “an armed society is a polite society.”
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    "Idque apud imperitos humanitas vocabatur, cum pars servitutis esset."
    Publius Tacitus

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check