California CCW

[DCP]

California CCW

In California do you have to CCW carry a unload gun or is something new they are trying to pass.

Thanks

[thx997303]

Last I knew they were trying to ban open carry.

[358wcf]

In Calif, concealed permits are issued by the County Sheriff's office. Each county is different. In general, coastal counties, and counties that are heavily populated, tend to be quite liberal in their politics, hence, concealed permits are politically incorrect.
In the rural areas, and the sparsely populated mountain counties inland, populations are low, politics are conservative, and permits can be had, but the qualifications are rigorous and a permit is considered a high privilege. Being a friend of the Sheriff definitely comes into play here, and political contibutions don't hurt anything, either.
Remember, Sheriff's are elected here.
So there you have it-- some counties see it as a privilege for the few, but in most, the answer is "NO WAY".

358wcf

[462]

Californians can openly carry an unloaded gun. That is what the bruhaha is all about, as liberals are as intimidated by an unload gun as they are one that is loaded. Actually, it has nothing to do with intimidation -- that's just the excuse -- but about rights and freedom.

By the way, although an loaded gun can be carried openly, ammo can not be on the person. In other words, if the gun is unloaded and the ammo is in your pocket, the gun is loaded...if the gun is on the passenger seat and the ammo in the glove box, the gun is loaded.

[3006guns]

I wasn't aware that carrying ammo separate on your person was considered "loaded". Asinine.

On the other hand, I've had a California CCW and was astonished to find that it wasn't legal in counties other than my own........and it says "State of California" right on top! So, that means my driver's license isn't legal outside my own county? We have a fouled up state........

[DCP]

Please explain the coments in red

Californians can openly carry an unloaded gun. That is what the bruhaha is all about, as liberals are as intimidated by an unload gun as they are one that is loaded. Actually, it has nothing to do with intimidation -- that's just the excuse -- but about rights and freedom.

By the way, although an loaded gun can be carried openly, ammo can not be on the person. In other words, if the gun is unloaded and the ammo is in your pocket, the gun is loaded...if the gun is on the passenger seat and the ammo in the glove box, the gun is loaded.

[462]

dcp,
Do you live in California? If so, you may want to read the state's DOJ rules on open and concealed carry. Your interpretation may be different than mine. Laws are written by lawyers, in legalese, and can take on a different meaning to a non-lawyer.

In California, a person can lawfully and openly carry an unloaded firearm, without a CCW permit. There is movement afoot to repeal that law.

In the first sentence of my second paragraph, I menat to say unloaded. I apologize for the confusion.

358WCF clearly explained the CCW permit nuances. I will add that, at least in the county in which I live, liability insurance is required.

[thx997303]

462, IF I recall correctly, you CAN carry ammunition on your person, HOWEVER, it cannot be near, or inside the firearm.

I will have to check into this, as this is only what I THINK I remember.

Edited to add: I found it. PC12031 is the law. Anywho, what I said above was correct. In order for the firearm to be considered loaded

"Loaded firearm defined as when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm."

See case law. CASE LAW (People v. Clark, 1996) CA Court of Appeals states for a firearm to be loaded it must have ammunition “placed into a position from which it can be fired”.

This only applies to incorporated areas, as Loaded open carry is legal in unincorporated areas.

[AZ-Stew]

This only applies to incorporated areas, as Loaded open carry is legal in unincorporated areas.

Correct. For those who don't know, the legalese "incorporated", means "in the city limits". "Unincorporated" means "out in the boonies". You can carry a loaded firearm on your person when you're in the National Forests or out in the desert areas, BLM land, etc.

Regards,

Stew

[462]

thx997303,
Thanks for the "loaded" clarification.

[DCP]

462

No I don't live in Cal.
I live in IL. It sucks big time

I have a Utah CCW. It was good in 37 states

WE cant have a CCW carry in IL

If hunting or fishing we can have a loaded weapon.

I was reading about this and wanted some clarification

Thanks

[SciFiJim]

On the other hand, I've had a California CCW and was astonished to find that it wasn't legal in counties other than my own

Not true, although there are some cops that believe that it is. I have a CA CCW. It's valid everywhere it the state except the normal areas (government buildings, Post Office, etc). My CCW instructor lead us through the laws that pertain to this.

[3006guns]

Thanks for that SciFiJim.......my statement was from an incident years ago involving the police chief of San Jose. Being anti gun, he stated that he would arrest anyone with a CCW not issued by HIM........and he didn't issue them, a direct violation of the law since it states that they "shall issue". Fortunately he's gone.

[462]

3006guns,
California is a "may" issue state, unfortunately. Highlight added.

From the state DOJ site: A license to carry a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person
may be granted to qualified residents of a county by the sheriff or to qualified residents of a city by
the chief or other head of the municipal police department of that city.

[3006guns]

O.K.........then I'm slightly out of date, because I read the law many years ago and it definately said "shall issue". Something's changed............and not for the best as it gives a local law enforcement official the power to decide who should be licensed.......at his descretion.

At this point in time I'm in good stead with our local LEO's at both the city and county levels, so obtaining a CCW is not a problem. However, since the state suddenly upped the fees so much I just decided not to bother. Our taxes and fees are high enough as it is.

You'll get a kick out of this.......I applied for my first CCW back in 1981. It was (and still is) required that you bring in the firearm so they can verify the serial number prior to issuing the permit. Okay, so I walk into our local sheriff's office and dumped seven handguns of various types on the counter. The female deputy looked at the pile and said "You can't do that". "Why?" I asked........"There's no limit that I know of...." "Yeah" she said, "But they won't all fit on the form!"

I think I had the only permit that said "see attached".........

[ReloaderFred]

I retired as a Commander from the Sheriff's Dept. in the third largest county in California, based on square miles, (8,026) 15 years ago. My county also accounted for one third of the CCW permits issued in the state, and because of that, received a lot of heat from Calif. DOJ over the years. For the most part, we had very pro 2nd Amendment Sheriffs. Just before I retired and moved out of the state (the same day of my retirement), the Sheriff at that time caved into the pressure from CADOJ and started limiting the number of permits issued, and the reasons for issuing them. If I remember correctly, the numbers went from over 4,600 permits to something like 2,500 or so. I have no idea what has occured since I left that area.

In my 26 years with the Department, I only pulled two CCW permits. One was the result of a bar fight and the other was a Reserve Deputy who did something really, really stupid, and caused me to also pull his reserve commission. There were no problems with 99.9% of the CCW permit holders.

At the time, you could have a maximum of three handguns listed on the permit, and you were only allowed to carry concealed a firearm that was listed. Any other firearm was considered illegal. This was the state law, not the policy set forth by the Sheriff's Office.

California was always a "MAY ISSUE" state in the over 50 years I lived there. I now live in a "SHALL ISSUE" state, and am very aware of the difference between the two. Some heads of departments never issued permits, and some did, depending on who was the Chief or Sheriff at the time. I remember when LA County had one permit issued, to George Putnam, an investigative reporter who made his mission in life going after the bad guys. That was back in the 1960's, when the media was still honest for the most part. That way, the Sheriff of LA County could tell the public he issued CCW permits.

There were some jurisdictions who said they didn't recognize CCW permits issued by other counties and cities. San Jose, San Francisco and Los Angeles come to mind, but I'm sure there were others. In fact, one of our off duty Deputies was arrested for a short time in San Francisco for CCW, but was released when taken before the desk sergeant, who apologized to him for the incident.

As noted by some posters, the rural counties are/were much more gun friendly than the urban and coastal counties. The rural counties for the most part are pretty conservative, but the population numbers are in the urban counties, hence the mess California politics and state government are in now.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[stephen perry]

Otherwise I tote guns anywhere I go in California, unloaded that is. CCW's are generally for business owners that transport money from business to banks and wimps that are afraid of their own shadow. I worked in several gun shops since 1968, 25 yrs in one alone as a second sometimes third job, transported money did all the things a small business does and never toted a gun, thing is I'm not a wimp and can defend myself. I have shot and do shoot rifle, pistol,shotgun, and hunt in California, Arizona, Nevada, Texas, New Mexico, Missouri, and Ohio. Never had a problem never needed to use a gun to protect myself. I don't talk bad about locals don't talk politics, don't talk illegals. I have been NRA Life since 1973. I am a Shoot Director NBRSA, RSO, belong to 5 gun clubs and a couple hunting clubs. I have found you Cast bullets, make jacketed BR bullets, hunt, support your gun clubs, don't break laws, give your wife credit for what she does, do your job well, and give your Creator credit for what you know and life will be just fine.

George S. Patton had it right fight the Russians while the Army was in Europe, he knew the Germans weren't the only bad guys in Europe. One infamous coward and his wife traveled to California recently and wanted to come loaded because he feared the illegals. I told him if he gets caught carrying a loaded gun in his RV he would face felony charges. Told him that Texas where he is from has more illegals coming over everyday than California.

Fear seems to be the driving factor for the people seeking the CCW permit. Trying to shoot your way out of a situation that you probably got yourself in by opening your big mouth is not the reason to have a CCW. To me a CCW is for the small business owner that is trying to even the odds with a street punk on a bad day. Personally since I am a College/High School Wrestling Coach I would twist the guys neck and put him off the streets, hopefully then he will re-evaluate his life and get a job.
Done.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

[DCP]

Well coach

You are as bad as the people you describe. SHAME ON YOU

I sure hope you don't get old or ever get disabled etc.........

WOW

You really don't get it do you. ( See what a college education can do)


I here by cut off your buttons and break your saber in two.


DONE

Fear seems to be the driving factor for the people seeking the CCW permit. Trying to shoot your way out of a situation that you probably got yourself in by opening your big mouth is not the reason to have a CCW. To me a CCW is for the small business owner that is trying to even the odds with a street punk on a bad day. Personally since I am a College/ High School Wrestling Coach I would twist the guys neck and put him off the streets, hopefully then he will re-evaluate his life and get a job.
Done.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

[SciFiJim]

CCW's are generally for business owners that transport money from business to banks and wimps that are afraid of their own shadow.

You probably think everyone that owns a pistol or EBR is into being tacticool as well. Boy or you wrong on so many counts. I have a CCW for the same reason I own guns, because I CAN. Whether I carry or not is no bodies business by mine. There are times when I can not carry and there are times when I can. It's up to ME to decide if I will or won't. A choir boy intent on spreading the wealth is going to have to guess and take his chances. Him knowing that there are ordinary citizens that might be carrying will hopefully help him to make wise choices. If he knows that CCWs are limited in number in an area, he might be more willing to take a chance. I want him to realize that the area I live in is too risky because there are too many people with CCWs for him to risk it.

[9.3X62AL]

Mr. Perry--

Rational fear of attack is a reasonable and justifiable feeling with the catch & release criminal justice system now in place. I strenuously disagree with your take on this subject, sir.

The "legal definition" of "loaded firearm" varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction in CA. In Riverside and San Bernardino Counties, the ammunition had to be attached to the firearm in some way for the District Attorney's Office to deem the firearm loaded per 12031 P.C. In Los Angeles County, "simultaneous proximity" completed the crime--if gun and ammo were both within simultaneous reach in a "public place" (another 'weasel word' definition), then don't pass GO and don't collect $200.