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Thread: Armi Sport Sharps...any good?

  1. #81
    Boolit Master Black Prince's Avatar
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    Best of luck to you Jarhead. A man can sure spend a day doing worse things than making that fine smelling smoke with a BP rifalgun like you have. Let us know how that comes out.
    The America I love was when the engine was a V-8, the exhausts were dual, the shift was four on the floor, the white walls were wide, the chrome was thick, the women were straight, and there was no such thing as the as the EPA.

  2. #82
    Boolit Man
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    Black Powder Cartridge Pedersoli 50/90

    BLACK PRINCE - I know you're just jivin', but do you know what they did to us, at Parris Island, if they heard us call our M1 a "gun"?

    They had a tall platform in the middle of the camp, and they'd make you climb up there with your M1, and any time anyone was within hearing range, you had to shout, "THIS IS MY RIFLE (holding it up), AND THIS IS MY GUN (holding your hand over your genetal area), THIS IS FOR FIGHTING (holding up the rifle again), AND THIS IS FOR FUN (indicating your private parts again)!

    And you stood there for HOURS shouting that out.

    Nobody ever called it a "gun" again.

    Back in those days a Marine was issued an M1 and it stayed with him his entire career, AS IT SHOULD OF COURSE BE. And every day we fired, they MADE us take our rifles into the shower with us, field strip them, and scrub them with hot, soapy water. We were not allowed to use any lubricants at all on the weapons. A year later, over in Japan, I had my wife send a gun cleaning kit to me, and I put some oil on the moving parts. But that evening, just before liberty, our Platoon Commander inspected our firearms, and saw the oil on mine. He cancelled my liberty for it!

    And yes, I'll let you know about today's shoot.

  3. #83
    Boolit Master Black Prince's Avatar
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    Gene

    They did the same thing to us at the Lakes, only it was in the enlisted mess hall. There was a little platform there and many a day I ate chow with some poor sumbitcx standing up there yelling until he was horse about this is his rifle and this is his gun. The military has a quick way of getting its point across to even the dumbest recruit. They did the same thing about throwing grenades. If you threw it like a baseball, you had to stand up on that little platform and yell "I'm John Wayne. I'm John Wayne."

    People who didn't have to go through that read that now and think it's funny, but there was nothing funny about it then buddy. I still crenge when I hear some yokle refer to his rifle as his gun. If he knew what I knew about doing that, he dam sure wouldn't do it.

    But I had a BIG advantage because my dad told me all about that stuff before I went up to the lakes. About half way through our training cycle, the gunny pulled me aside one morning after muster and asked me how I was able to take it all in with what seemed to be no effort when so many of the guys in the company just had a difficult time doing it. When I told him my dad was a jarhead and had prepared me for it, he asked me and two more guys to help those who couldn't make it. After that, I had it easy and he turned out to be a good guy. He said there was so much we had to learn in such a short time that the DI's didn't have time to be nice and besides that, they wanted to find out who could hack it and who couldn't because they didn't want to send anybody out to the fleet who wasn't going to be able to do the job. We lost about 10 to 15 ppercent of the guys during our basic training. Some went to sick bay and didn't come back. Some went AWOL and we never saw them again. Some went to the brig and some got a UD discharge and just went home. Good riddance if you asked me because once that ship left the dock, we needed every man to do his job and not complain. We had left all the complainers and those who couldn''t hack it back at the Lakes.

    Some people just ain't cut out for the military. Once General Quarters is sounded, you want to be sure everybody there knows and can do his job because if he can't or doesn't, you, and a lot of your shipmates, may die.
    The America I love was when the engine was a V-8, the exhausts were dual, the shift was four on the floor, the white walls were wide, the chrome was thick, the women were straight, and there was no such thing as the as the EPA.

  4. #84
    I'm A Honcho! montana_charlie's Avatar
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    In discussions where exactness matters, terms like rifle, gun, pistol, and revolver take on important meaning. The rifle versus gun routine taught to military recruits is part of the overall psycological training that is an inherent part of the physical conditioning.

    It's a matter of convincing everyone to think alike, and speak alike while they are learning to act alike. It's called 'uniformity', and helps each recruit to be comfortable with the idea that he is just like his buddies...no better and no worse...regardless of his station in life before joining up.
    If he slips up and does something not 'uniform', that is where disciplinary action comes in to help him remember.

    To make a big deal of the difference between rifle and gun while engaged in casual civilian conversation is...well...unnecessary.
    CM
    Retired...TWICE. Now just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.

  5. #85
    Boolit Master Black Prince's Avatar
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    Do you mean like when Sara Brady recently gave testimony about outlawing assualt weapons while holding a 22 revolver in her hands? How many soccer moms saw that and now believe that a 22 revolver is an assualt weapon? Or maybe its okay for a civilian to say in casual conversation something to the effect that "Saturday night specials" ought to be banned, or maybe "cop killer" bullets?

    That so many people are ignorant of the termonology of firearms is what allows the various reporters and the media to get away with much of the **** that they do.

    Sara Brady says there should be no autimatic weapons in civilain hands and she says a Browning BAR is an automatic weapon because it says that it is right there in its name and it wouldn't say that if it wasn't true. How many soccer moms or dads believe her?

    We now have two generations of men that have not been required to serve in the military. We have so many who don't know a rifle butt from a fence post and they don't care. All they know it what they have been taught and that is that all "guns" are dangerous and can kill children so therefore all "guns" should be outlawed.

    I respecfully beg to differ in my own opinion Charles. It IS IMPORTANT to be specific and know what you are talking about when refering to "guns" and that does not matter whether you are in the military or standing in front of church on Sunday talking to your neighbors in casual conversation. Your neighbors vote, and they are swayed by all the lies that are told by the media who get away with it because nobody KNOWS the difference between a "gun and a rifle" or a "pistol and a revolver" or an "assualt weapon and a Remington 742."

    One size does not fit all when it comes to firearms termonology, but there is a movement afoot in this country led by Sara Brady and the news media to do just that. Once they achieve that, then it becomes easier to make the case to outlaw "guns", and make no mistake, that is exactly what they intend to do. Once all handguns become Saturday Night Specials, and all bullets become cop killers, and all rifles become assualt weapons, their job will be a LOT easier.

    Course, that is just my own view of things, but I think I am on very firm ground here.
    The America I love was when the engine was a V-8, the exhausts were dual, the shift was four on the floor, the white walls were wide, the chrome was thick, the women were straight, and there was no such thing as the as the EPA.

  6. #86
    I'm A Honcho! montana_charlie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Prince View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by montana_charlie View Post
    In discussions where exactness matters, terms like rifle, gun, pistol, and revolver take on important meaning.

    To make a big deal of the difference between rifle and gun while engaged in casual civilian conversation is...well...unnecessary.
    Do you mean like when Sara Brady recently gave testimony about outlawing assualt weapons while holding a 22 revolver in her hands?
    Do you consider giving testimony as 'casual conversation' or as something wherein 'exactness matters'?
    Or maybe its okay for a civilian to say in casual conversation something to the effect that "Saturday night specials" ought to be banned, or maybe "cop killer" bullets?
    As it happens, it IS Ok for a civilian to state his opinion of Saturday night specials, and any ignorance he might be suffering from will not be changed if a retired Soldier (you) stops to tell a retired Airman (me) that a rifle is not a gun.
    We both already know the difference.
    That so many people are ignorant of the termonology of firearms is what allows the various reporters and the media to get away with much of the **** that they do.
    I find the firearm ignorance of the average citizen to be a shame, and the ignorance displayed by most politicians and media to be almost criminal.

    The cure for that is education...and education is an activity in which the use of proper terminology is important. It is "a discussion where exactness matters" (to reuse those words of mine that you missed).

    I respecfully beg to differ in my own opinion Charles. It IS IMPORTANT to be specific and know what you are talking about when refering to "guns" and that does not matter whether you are in the military or standing in front of church on Sunday talking to your neighbors in casual conversation. Your neighbors vote, and they are swayed by all the lies that are told by the media who get away with it because nobody KNOWS the difference between a "gun and a rifle" or a "pistol and a revolver" or an "assualt weapon and a Remington 742."
    Thank you for the respect. But, I will just as respectfully disagree.

    If you explain to your neighbor that this 'gun' over here (the AK-47) holds thirty 'bullets' and will fire all of them by just holding the trigger down...and that 'gun' over there needs to have each separate 'bullet' jacked into the barrel by working the bolt...he will walk away knowing the difference between an assault rifle and a Remington 742 ---- without learning that neither one is actually a 'gun' because they are both rifles.

    If he isn't a shooter, the gun/rifle difference is lost on him. But knowing the difference between fully automatic weapons and bolt actions has been made clear...and that is what you need him to know when Sara Brady speaks.
    He can take that knowledge to the polls at voting time.
    Course, that is just my own view of things, but I think I am on very firm ground here.
    There are circumstances when I would agree with you, but...

    CM
    Retired...TWICE. Now just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.

  7. #87
    Boolit Master Black Prince's Avatar
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    If the casual conversation were between you and I, or any number of people around here, we'd have no problems whatsoever. Try as we will, I don't think any or all of us are going to have much impact on the ignorance level of the public no matter what termonology we use. They are not interested in facts. They are going on emotion and the anti-gun bunch know just how to play on that emotion with terms like Saturday Night Special and Cop Killer Bullets. Assualt Weapon is another perjorative term they like to throw around. All of those names are right out of some Madison Avenue marketing firm working for the Brady gang.

    I quit teaching NRA Hunter Education classes about six or seven years ago when the young people in the classes were coming with their moms and not their dads. Dad wasn't interested. I asked many women why dad didn't come and the answer was, he's at home watching the ball game. He doesn't know anything about "guns," so he didn't come.

    That is such a contrast to when I first started doing the classes back in 1978. Then it was very unusual to see a female in the classes. I had to start every session by asking all of those who were current or former law enforcement or militray to hold their comments because they had received different training than what I was about to do. That is because there are very different objectives of the firearms training. I would ask how many had received militray training. More than half the class had. Now NONE have. In 1978 I didn't have to explain the difference between a rifle and a shotgun. Now they just don't get it. They are both GUNS you see?

    So screw it. I'm getting too dam old to deal with anything that requires patience. I take that back. I have patience with other old farts like me. They have earned the right to be jackasses and to tell me I am full of it. In fact, that is sorta why I like hanging out around here. There is no shortage of opinions and people to express them. But those opinions are coming from guys who know the difference between a Case XX and a Boker Tree brand pocket knife. THEY have credibility!!! In public today, nobody will tell you what they think. I'm not sure that's because they are incapable of thought, or they are being politically correct, but whatever the case, it's boring as hell. It's never boring around here thank God and everybody knows the Tree brand is the better knife. Right?
    Last edited by Black Prince; 05-27-2008 at 09:14 PM.
    The America I love was when the engine was a V-8, the exhausts were dual, the shift was four on the floor, the white walls were wide, the chrome was thick, the women were straight, and there was no such thing as the as the EPA.

  8. #88
    Boolit Man
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    Black Powder Cartridge

    No way I'm buttin' into THIS conversation, thank you very much.

    But I DID see an hilariously amazing firearm nomenclature misuse today, and it was either on Midway or Buffalo Arms, but I don't recall which.

    I was searching for "lead", but pulled up a lot of antique replica cartridge boxes filled with loaded cartridges. And the photograph was taken from the open end of the box where you could see only the bases of the cartridges, with the primers.

    And the online catalog called these cartridges "bullets".

    I was amazed!

  9. #89
    I'm A Honcho! montana_charlie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Prince View Post
    If the casual conversation were between you and I, or any number of people around here, we'd have no problems whatsoever.
    That is exactly what I meant when I said that being a stickler for the difference is...well...unnecessary.

    For the record...
    When I speak with (or to) a non-gunowner about firearms, it is never a 'casual' conversation...even if he thinks it is. I was a 'teacher' during my last hitch in the Air Force. I didn't like it, but I was good at it.
    I fully understand the concept of building a person's knowledge by starting with what he knows (or thinks he knows) and adding very clear pieces of information that fit with his preconceptions...but turned a little to start modifying any notions that are incorrect.

    If he goes away with just a little less ignorance than when we met...I'm satisfied.
    If he ever gets knowledgeable enough to need the difference between a 'rifle' and a 'gun'...he will already be primed to understand what makes it important.

    But, among us chickens, I expect to be able to say 'gun' without being browbeat for it because it's...well...unnecessary.

    But, if you want to set fire to MY pet peeve, just talk like this...

    Yep, I went to the range today with my new .45-90 (aka .45 2 4/10ths Sharps Straight) to see if I could make it shoot as well as my .45-70 Government (aka .45 2 1/10 Sharps Straight) or my .45-120 (aka .45 3 1/4 Sharps Straight).

    I think I'm really gonna like this .45 4/10ths SS cartridge (aka .45-90 Winchester) because it's ultra cool.


    By the time I get done wading through all of the aka's, I don't care if he shot his foot off!

    CM
    Retired...TWICE. Now just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.

  10. #90
    Boolit Master Black Prince's Avatar
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    Hee, hee

    Me NEITHER!!!

    Well Will, what happened? Did them "bullets" ya made shoot? Er not? Over.
    Last edited by Black Prince; 05-27-2008 at 09:16 PM.
    The America I love was when the engine was a V-8, the exhausts were dual, the shift was four on the floor, the white walls were wide, the chrome was thick, the women were straight, and there was no such thing as the as the EPA.

  11. #91
    Boolit Man
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    Hee Hee

    SORRY TO DISAPPOINT YOU BLACK PRINCE. My oldest son drove up here, from an hour and a half away, to go shootin' with me today, but at the last minute I had a real down spell with my leaking heart valve, and just couldn't make it. Had a tough time standing up.

    We did, however, set up a target, and REALLY CAREFULLY bore sighted the 50/90 for right on at 50 yards (I had previously bore sited it roughly). And it's a good thing we did, because the windage screw on the long distance tang sight was frozen, and it took some doin' to get it loose. We live in a dense forest, and 50 yards is the maximum you can see anywhere on my land because of all the massive old oak trees.

    PLUS I had not been to the place where we were planning on going to shoot today, in back of a little gun store out here in the country, but by son had been there, and warned me it's not a "range" at all, just a small back yard, where you can only shoot about twenty feet or so, maximum distance. So we've postponed our celebration, and, in a few dys, will go out to this nice nearby 200-yard range instead: http://members.atlantic.net/~scoop10/ The very bright Events Director here is a Forum friend of mine, and a PP BPCR guru And I'm hoping he'll bring his chronograph out while I'm there, to clock me for a few rounds.

    Sorry, Black Prince - trust me, I'm more disappointed than you are!

  12. #92
    Boolit Master Black Prince's Avatar
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    Spit happens Gene. What is the saying that you jarheads use about that? Something about adjust, adapt, and over come? You know the drill.

    Didja get the photo's I sent you by e-mail? Looks like we are on a close path there. Let us know when you go to the range old pard. Once you start smelling that black powder smoke, you will probably feel a lot better.
    Last edited by Black Prince; 05-28-2008 at 08:07 AM.
    The America I love was when the engine was a V-8, the exhausts were dual, the shift was four on the floor, the white walls were wide, the chrome was thick, the women were straight, and there was no such thing as the as the EPA.

  13. #93
    Boolit Master and Generous Donator
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    Actually, the use of "bullets" to describe complete, loaded cartridges is becoming more common than not, even in police reports and in court; most startling was a long summary i read a couple of days back of a study of the relative effectiveness in Iraqu (remember when "q" was ALWAYS to be followed by"u"?) of the 5.56 in the general issue M-16 vs. the 7.62 in the snipers' M-14s. I don't know if the original military text used "bullets" for loaded rounds, but the many quotations in the press reports used it exclusively.

    We'll stick to our "boolits"!

    floodgate
    NOV SHMOZ KA POP?

  14. #94
    Boolit Man
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    Yes, you're absolutely right, Floodgate.

    Ignorance and intellectual sloth abound today in our once learned nation.

    But I, for one, shall never defend, emulate nor propagate it.

    I will not call a cartridge a bullet, no matter how many retards do.

    And "q", I might add, was only followed by "u" in the middle of a word, not at the end of one.

  15. #95
    I'm A Honcho! montana_charlie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willdixon View Post
    And "q", I might add, was only followed by "u" in the middle of a word, not at the end of one.
    That statement did pique my interest, but I can't think of any words (besides Iraq) that end with 'q'...and I don't suppose that words which begin with 'q' would qualify for the 'middle of a word' parameter.
    CM
    Retired...TWICE. Now just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.

  16. #96
    Boolit Man
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    There was never a rule that "u" followed "q", any more than the mnemonic "i before e except after c". There are a number of English language words in which q is not followed by u, mostly of foreign root, and the mnemonic is also only a generalization, not a spelling rule. And we all know today there is no "u" in Iraq.

    I'm not certain I follow this thought train, however, because none of these semantics make a cartridge a bullet.

    Ah well.....I'm slow today....

  17. #97
    Boolit Master Black Prince's Avatar
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    That makes two of us slow today. As Rush says, "words mean things." Or they did back in the last century when I was in school anyway. But I'm an old fart now, so what do I know? Heck, I think when the Constitution says the right of the people, I am so dam dumb that I think I am a "people" and it is referring to me having the right to keep and bear arms.

    I sorta think the way Ted Nugent thinks about that. If yawl wanna see what he thinks about it, check it out here--> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_QjEL0uUgo

    Now those are some plain words!
    Last edited by Black Prince; 05-28-2008 at 02:34 PM.
    The America I love was when the engine was a V-8, the exhausts were dual, the shift was four on the floor, the white walls were wide, the chrome was thick, the women were straight, and there was no such thing as the as the EPA.

  18. #98
    Boolit Man
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    Nugent was excellent!

    I hear a different drummer from most you guys, I've never cared for rock, and haven't owned nor watched a TV set for over three decades.

    I busy myself with other persuits.

    But I really like Nugent's discourse on the Second Amendment.

    Is it too late to run him for President???

  19. #99
    Boolit Man
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    Black Powder Cartridge

    OKAY, GUYS, HERE'S ONE I GUARANTEE YOU HAVEN'T HEARD OF YET.....

    You can now buy shotgun reloading BIRDSHOT MADE OUT OF FOOD SEASONING!

    You shoot the bird with shotgun shells loaded with this seasoning shot, and, when you cook the meat, the shot melts and flavors the bird!

    Just think, you could cast your 45/70 bullets out of salt, pepper and garlic, shoot your deer, and just cook him with all those spices flavoring him.

    Check it out: http://www.seasonshot.com/How.cfm

    WHAT'S NEXT!

  20. #100
    Boolit Master carpetman's Avatar
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    Willdixon---I have always had to add salt to my loads so the game doesnt spoil before I get to it.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check