What's the weak spot on the Lyman 4500?
That stinkin' die nut. Yep, cross-threaded and stripped out. And the cost of a new body casting is $100.
I'm peeved at myself for not paying close enough attention... that's the worst part.
Dutch
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What's the weak spot on the Lyman 4500?
That stinkin' die nut. Yep, cross-threaded and stripped out. And the cost of a new body casting is $100.
I'm peeved at myself for not paying close enough attention... that's the worst part.
Dutch
Sorry to hear about the unfortunate. A thought maybe would be to work the threads down just enough to allow the nut to slide in and out of the housing. I wouldn’t over do it so there isn’t any slop but just enough to have a tight slide in and out. It would be easiest to work the retaining nut’s threads and would be the way I would go. Next you would need to drill and tap two set screws on both sides of the housing body so they can catch the retaining nut and lock everything into place.
I've never done it but it seems like a possibility anyway.
Last edited by RobS; 07-13-2010 at 02:43 AM.
I've worried about that happening to my sizers, too. I usually insert a sizer die into the body with the retaining nut FULLY-seated flush on top of the die, and GENTLY start it with the nut wrench. My mentor Leo Reyes showed me that method, and has yet to fail me--KNOCK ON WOOD.
I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.
this is why i mourn ye olde #45 passing ,if u have a machinist friend u mite could have a custom nut made one thread size bigger on the outside and retain the same inside dimensions and then tap the body for it prolly equal priced as the casting tho
With the casting body that expensive I would just buy a new sizer instead. Then just use the old one for back up parts.
I doubt if they do, but you can always see if there is a helicoil kit for it. Or see about a custom steel insert so it doesn't happen again.
You may find that the threads of the casting are harder
and in better shape than the threads on the nut -
that was my experience.
If they are even semi OK, it may be worth it to try a replacement
nut and see if you can save it. When I told them my nut was
stripped, but the body wasn't, Lyman sent me one nut for free!
I was warned that if it didn't work, they couldn't do
anything else warranty-wise.
It worked.
Nowadays I install the top punch, fit the nut to the top of the die,
slide it on the top punch, and gently seat the whole assembly
into the body and use the top punch and the bottom of the ram
against the nut to line it up and keep it straight, using just
gentle pressure the whole time until it is in contact with the body.
Then I turn the nut backwards until I feel the "click" of the threads
to find the starting leade and, still against the ram, start the nut,
with fingers and then a large open end wrench when too tight
for fingers, and finish off with the Lyman wrench with the ram up.
It tightens up fine and has worked well for three years now.
In the very worst case, clean it up, epoxy or JB weld in your
favorite caliber die, and make it a dedicated machine for that
diameter, that way you can still get some use out of it.
Hope this helps you....
..
I use a method like 9.3X62AL's. I've had my Lyman 450 since 1972 and haven't cross threaded anything yet.
I`ve been doing it the same way as Cord described above for many years. I`ve used the same procedure with RCBS lubers and my 2 Lyman 450`s, haven`t had a problem.Robert
Since I have a machine shop at home the first thing naturally was to looksee if there was a good way to fix this. NOT! You can't get perpendicular to the surface due to the ram guide in the casting. I can usually see a way to do things like this but I'm not seeing it with this. I'll give it some more perusal and see if I can come up with something.
I actually rather like the 4500. I used a pair of 45 for 25 years and came to really hate them. Part of that hate was the older stepped dies and pure linotype boolits.
Dutch
Makes me glad I have a Star, don't have a nut 'cause the pressure is always pushing down.
Could you drill and tap the front of the casting for a set screw like the 45 has?
As CORD mentuioned, same thing happened to me. Also the top of my pressure screw head finally stripped out. I replaced both it & the die nut and it works just fine--I bought it in 1980.
Seems to me both parts are not up to the task, then again it did last for 30 years and I probablay sized 500,000 bullets with it--so perhaps I am too much of a whiner...
No doubt--if that die nut had thicker, coarse threads and the pressure screw had a larger head both would not have failed...ok so I am whining!
Not exactly as the die retaining nut is a sort of threaded sleeve that surrounds and interacts with the O-ring on the sizing die body.Originally Posted by Elkins45
But your suggestion made me think for a second... If I made a new sleeve with no threads, just a slip fit, and put in a divet/detent sort of spot for a setscrew to seat it may function that way. All things considered it's the only thing that's come to mind as a repair so far.
I have to edit in a 2nd thought.... 2 setscrews 180 degrees apart on each side. Much mo'better!
danke doo
Dutch
With my 450 (which I despise compared to the 45) I make it a habit to warm the casting with a blow drier. Makes inserting the die and nut much easier. And I do it pretty much like Al says using the ram as a guide.
I still like the 45 better. And the RCBS better yet.
Bret's heating to soften the lube, then Cord's 'back it up until it clicks with gentle top pressure'
is how I do it.
One additional aid - when I get the 'Click' the first time - I stop and grind a tiny notch on the
front of the nut to use as an alignment aid the next time. Usually I warm the housing slightly,
then drop in die and nut, then apply a load with a handy socket between the top
punch and nut, and then only back up about 1/8 turn from mark and then start. The mark
helps a lot.
Sorry you stripped it, but I do think that a smooth sided nut replacement with two setscrew
holes (maybe a ball end tip on the setscrews?) would work well, possibly even easier than
the original setup.
Bill
If it was easy, anybody could do it.
Thats what I was saying and if the threads are for sure hosed on the housing unit this would be the next best thing. Bill also has a good idea on making the ends of the set screws rounded.
Last edited by RobS; 07-15-2010 at 12:28 PM.
Since you have a machine shop and it by the sounds of things you have a lathe: Once you make a "slip" lube die retaining sleeve as I’ll call it and have the housing tapped you could put the sleeve into the machine and tighten down the set screws enough to leave marks. Next take the die sleeve out and turn it on the lathe where the set screws are aligned that way there is a small groove all the way around it for the screws to lock into. I would imagine this would be easier than trying to line up a divot/detent as you had suggested.
Last edited by RobS; 07-15-2010 at 12:54 PM.
This thread needs to be Stickied, methinks. Another example of Cast Boolits and its membership at their best. I've been pouring boolits for 29 years, and gained knowledge by following along here.
Cord's method is a better explanation of how I install the die, and adds refinements that I'll incorporate into my gig. Many thanks for the expanded details, sir!
Bret--how does the RCBS LAM II differ with respect to the die retainer compared to the Lyman? I'm pondering a second tool, and if the retainer method is sturdier--RCBS will get the nod.
I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.
Al,
I have the older RCBS lubrisizer, it has a nut very much like the Lyman but a cast iron body
and I think (far away from the machines, can't check) a bit coarser threads. Not certain
this is the same as the newer model.
The notch in the nut to get it clocked correctly to start is very helpful, as is the uniform down
pressure from the socket driven by the top punch or even the bare top punch holder against a
socket. This keeps the nut flat and applies uniform downforce, and then you have the clocking
pretty accurate to start with the notch -- it saves a lot of fiddling and a lot of fear of stripping
the darned thing.
Bill
If it was easy, anybody could do it.
What Bill said, the threads are coarser or differ some other way that makes it easier to start the nut. I've never looked to see the difference. Never really thought about it either. Darn, now I'm gonna have to look...
If you're gonna buy a sizer I'd hunt around for the older RCBS with the ratchet top for the lube feed. Much nicer IMO than the chintzy toggle.
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