Ideal 360271 s

[Ben]

Today, I added one more mold to the mold cabinet.

Not certain that I really needed it ( does that sound familiar ? ), but I thought that there was a little history behind this one, so....I bought it.

I'm doing a search now to find out as much as I can about the history of this mold. If you have knowledge about the history of this mold, please share it with all of us.

I've found some info. about the mold here :

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=49785

I'd like to know the age of this mold ? ?

Ben

[Buckshot]

.............The only thing I can say is that it looks like the cavity was very nicely cut. Too bad they can't do them all as nice as that

...............Buckshot

[Ben]

Amen to that Rick !

[Bret4207]

I have the same mold. The "S" is reported to stand either for "Special" or "Small". My copy was purchased for use in a 38 S+W cal S+W Perfected Model DA revolver. It doesn't cast quite as large as I really want coming in around .361 IIRC and I wanted more like .362+. The design itself seems to shoot good, no weird habits or anything.

That's about all I gots.

[Guesser]

Mine is identical except the cherry # is R476. I've had it for years, 10 bucks at a gun show. I never used it, but now I have a nice S&W Regulation Police that .360 dia. 358246 boolits work very well in. Going to try the 360271S soon.

[Ben]

Bret4207 :

I plan to shoot some of these sized to .3585 " in my 38 Spec. Since there is no crimp groove - - - - what ,if anything, do you do about crimping with this bullet ?

I thought about a taper crimp. At 3585", I'm certain I'll have adequate neck tension to hold the round in place. I don't plan on any hot loads with this bullet anyway.

This one seems to be the precursor of the modern cast SWC 38 / 357 boolit. Of course today's boolits will generally offer you a place for a crimp.

I'm still curious about the probable age of this mold ? ? ? Any opinions on the subject ?

Ben

[Glen]

That design was introduced in about 1903. Ideal made the transiton from integral handles over to interchangeable mould blocks starting in about 1927, completing it a year or two later. The mould blocks were unvented up until about 1940 or so, so your mould was probably made sometime in the 1930s.

[Ben]

Glen:

That is some good information from someone who has an opinion that I have high regard for !

Many thanks,

Ben

[Bent Ramrod]

The 360271 (later 358271) was designed by B. F. Wilder and recommended by A. L. A. Himmelwright, Past President of the U. S. Revolver Association. It was recommended with light target type loads for the .38 S&W Military, i.e., the .38 Special. It probably wasn't meant to be crimped at all.

[Ben]

I'm thinking of just enough taper crimp to remove all the case mouth flare & insure 100% chambering .

Ben

[Buckshot]

...............I suppose you could crimp over the top driveband if you HAD to crimp. It surely doesn't carry much lube, does it? It has a heckuva lot of bearing surface With just a bit of casegrip and all that surface area you might not even need to crimp.

.................Buckshot

[Bret4207]

Bret4207 :

I plan to shoot some of these sized to .3585 " in my 38 Spec. Since there is no crimp groove - - - - what ,if anything, do you do about crimping with this bullet ?

I thought about a taper crimp. At 3585", I'm certain I'll have adequate neck tension to hold the round in place. I don't plan on any hot loads with this bullet anyway.

This one seems to be the precursor of the modern cast SWC 38 / 357 boolit. Of course today's boolits will generally offer you a place for a crimp.

I'm still curious about the probable age of this mold ? ? ? Any opinions on the subject ?

Ben

It's been awhile since I played with that outfit. IIRC I seated with the top of the shoulder at the case mouth, ala wadcutter. No real crimp to speak of. But I was using a light charge of powder, BE probably, and there isn't a lot recoil.

[Ben]

Rick,

You're right there isn't a lot of lube capacity in those rings, another reason for me to keep speeds with this bullet in the "38 Special wadcutter velocity range."

I'm thinking that with our modern lubes that there will be enough lube if the velocity is kept in the 650 - 750 fps. range in the 38 Spec. case.

[Guesser]

I'm confused about the lube capacity statements. I sized and lubed a batch of the 360271 bullets yesterday, they take nearly twice as much lube as a 358156 and more than twice as the 358246 that I also lubed. The grooves are deep and square and hold a lot. I would not be afraid of speeds over a thousand with a properly sized bullet to bore ratio.

[Ben]

Guesser :

Maybe Rick and I are wrong? Maybe there is more lube capacity there than we think ?

Ben

[Ben]

I got outside around 3 p.m. today and cast about 200 of these.

AMAZING results with this casting session ! !

This bullet is as close to perfectly round as any in my mold cabinet. For a bullet mold that was made in the 1930's, the old guys at IDEAL really knew what they were doing when they made this one.

These bullets mike .360" anyway you put the mike on them.

The lube grooves are a little deeper than I 1st thought that they were. These
should shoot just fine.

[Buckshot]

................It seems the lube grooves in the cast boolits appear a bit roomier then what the cavites seem to show. I suppose it's just an illusion looking at the flat edge of what will be the bottom of the lube grooves. But then again looking at the slugs Ben cast up, and that honking parking lot width bottom band (not to mention the other 2), they could've put another lube groove in the middle of the base band and it would have looked right at home

.................Buckshot

[9.3X62AL]

1903 birthing, eh? Those deep, square lube grooves may have influenced Elmer Keith more than a little, methinks.

At wadcutter velocities, I would be tempted to try the boolit with only the bottom groove lubed, and seat with a light roll crimp into the top groove. With a lube like NRA Alox/beeswax, I would wager the design to be good to standard 38 Special velocities (850 FPS) so lubed & seated. This assumes your sizing corresponds to the revolver's throats, and doesn't start giving sticky insertion after a period of firing, like Keith front drive bands can at times. Then the wadcutter seating regimen may be indicated.

I am a HUGE fan of heavy bottom bands in plain-based revolver and autopistol boolits. They offer strength against the pressure impulse and help hold back any powder gas trying to sneak past the bullet sidewall more effectively. Potentially, anyway--good dimensional integrity rules, but a nice fat substantial drive band can't hurt a bit. They engage rifling pretty firmly, too.

[Ben]

I'll be at the range in a few days with some of these loaded with 2.7 grs. of B'eye and shot from my 6" Colt Officer's Model Match.

We'll see how they shoot ?

Ben

[Bret4207]

I'll be at the range in a few days with some of these loaded with 2.7 grs. of B'eye and shot from my 6" Colt Officer's Model Match.

We'll see how they shoot ?

Ben

Retro loads, boolits and gun! Right down my line!