Lee 6.5 Swede "Cruise Missile" in 6.5 Carcano

[Tertle]

I make my own checks and the die throws them at .270(ish).
........
Bottom line is there is something fundamentally wrong with the CM in a Carcano. My Carcano has a static twist and not gain. My friend, "Tertle" has a Carcano identical to mine and my CM load does exactly the same in his rifle. GREAT accuacy at 100m but oval holes. I have given up now. The rifle is accuarte at 100m which is as far as I want to shoot those sights on wallabies and the recipient is none the wiser of the wobbly bottom bullet.

Just need to find the bloody wallabies, but yes these CM's are the ducks nuts!

[bkbville]

Tertle: what model Carcano? What sort of twist? What velocity?

With my gain twist (actually a Verterli) I get ovals if I push them.

The harder I make the boolit, the faster I can push them before ovals start showing up.

After putting it on the back burner I've been getting curious about trying to recover some of the boolits to see if I can find out the cause of the instability.

My (unproven) theory is that the gain twist is stripping the engraving so the boolit never achieves rotation sufficient to stablize.

This, though, doesn't jive with JeffNZ who doesnt have a gain twist...

Also - unlike Jeff - when I cut down a test batch, they all went in round.

[JeffinNZ]

Tertle's load and rifle are identical to mine. Static twist, 1750fps. Never been able to recover a CM yet.

[Boz330]

Tertle: what model Carcano? What sort of twist? What velocity?

With my gain twist (actually a Verterli) I get ovals if I push them.

The harder I make the boolit, the faster I can push them before ovals start showing up.

After putting it on the back burner I've been getting curious about trying to recover some of the boolits to see if I can find out the cause of the instability.

My (unproven) theory is that the gain twist is stripping the engraving so the boolit never achieves rotation sufficient to stablize.

This, though, doesn't jive with JeffNZ who doesnt have a gain twist...

Also - unlike Jeff - when I cut down a test batch, they all went in round.

I said this earlier and still think that is the problem. If I slow mine down the group tightens but the holes are still oval. I "THINK" that a shorter driving section may help cure the problem since it will be less likely to strip. I didn't have much relief from Linotype boolits. I am eventually going to try cutting the mold down when I find that rountuit time.

Bob

[rattletrap1970]

This is the information and results of my 1st try with the Cruise Missile.

I think I need to go a bit faster.

[Shooter6br]

I use 4759 14g with Lee cruise missle

[eric_2902]

This is the information and results of my 1st try with the Cruise Missile.

I think I need to go a bit faster.

what program are you using for your data?

[rattletrap1970]

Actually it's an Excel Spreadsheet that I made to keep records on loads I've worked up. I paste in a scanned sheet of the specs for the round from Sierra's Reloading manual and I past in a scan of targets I shot with the round in question. It also calculated bullet setback and optimal twist/bullet length (based on the Greenhill formula). If you PM me and give me your email, I'll send you a copy.

[rattletrap1970]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know the Ballistic Coeff of the "Cruise Missile"?

[rattletrap1970]

Oh, and another question. I have been re forming .30-06 down to 6.5x55 and have had some success without ruining my cases. Of course the case neck ends up being very long and must be sut down.

My question is, does anyone think there might be some benefit to leaving the case neck on the the re-formed cases on the long side (say .02 shy of the rifling), and using the longer case neck to better support the "cruise missile"? Rather than leaving it hanging way outside a conventionally trimmed case neck.

[calkar]

custom fitting your brass to you chamber is always a plus if you are careful, but the cm has fundamental design/redesign flaws, read all the threads about it and you will see.

[JIMinPHX]

What little experience I have with the shortened CM can be found posted on this thread - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=97395 I was using shortened CM boolits that Geargnasher sent me. Results were good for my initial low speed short range tests. I haven't shot a second string yet.

I have recently bought a CM mold, second hand, from another board member & milled it down. I think that I took off about .190". I then opened up the GC shank diameter a little bit by plunging a 1/4" end mill & walking off center by .002" in both + & - directions on both the x & y axis. I haven't cast with the mold yet.

[Bullshop Junior]

On the CM mold may I ask which end gets shortened?
If the base end then does it become a PB?

[Bullshop]

I wonder how it would work if you shortened the nose end? That would make it more of a WFN instead of an LFN.
I have an FN Mauser single shot that is stamped 6.5 Roberts. It will not stabilize the CM at all. I have not yet measured the twist but my guess is about 9.5" to 10"
It seems like taking a bit off the nose would be easier, but how much to take off until it will stabilize. If too much is taken off it will be a WC.
There is quite a bit of taper to that long nose so it might work out OK.

[calkar]

Sat. my spotter told me I was putting all shots in a pie plate size group shootin at a rock on the 300m. berm. My 100m. 10 shot group on paper measures 2.75. With a all military swede, 468469's, lyman #2 mix, and 16g. of 2400. Next Im going to speed things up a 1/2 grain at a time till I have problems, back off a bit and Im good to go for high power up to the pigs. After that Ill have to go to j's. But that will cut my cost in half and I can shoot more matches. $30 a box of 100 is just crazy to me.

[geargnasher]

What little experience I have with the shortened CM can be found posted on this thread - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=97395 I was using shortened CM boolits that Geargnasher sent me. Results were good for my initial low speed short range tests. I haven't shot a second string yet.

I have recently bought a CM mold, second hand, from another board member & milled it down. I think that I took off about .190". I then opened up the GC shank diameter a little bit by plunging a 1/4" end mill & walking off center by .002" in both + & - directions on both the x & y axis. I haven't cast with the mold yet.

Jim, that's the first group I know of coming from my shortened mould that didn't yaw. I can't keep those things from wanting to swap ends in flight with my Swedes.

Gear

[JIMinPHX]

Gear,
What's your twist rate? What's your groove diameter?

[45 2.1]

I wonder how it would work if you shortened the nose end?

If you compare most of my 6.5 designs, you will find the bearing body length to be almost the same. The noses are different lengths. The noses should also engrave slightly on them. The problem with ALL the 6.5s is that most people use conventional methods (which limit their success) and don't think out of the box. The Swede has been known as the graduate level cartridge and rifle........ and so it is. All the 6.5s will shoot any of my designs (and others if they fit) well. The cruise missle (in all of them) will shoot fine (providing you have a to spec mold) at some astounding velocities if you know your stuff. If you guys want a to spec mold, request BRP cut the cherry......since I sent him the specs some time ago.

[Char-Gar]

A couple of comments on the issue at hand:

1. The Lee "Cruise Missile" was designed by folks on this board and was the first custom group guy we did. Lee kept the specs and has produced it off and on, but it is the product of this board.

2. About ten years ago, many of us worked with the 6.5 Swead. That rifle, proved to be a very difficult nut to crack due to the fast twist. The same problems encountered to day were encountered then. That rifle and others of the ilk are the Post Doctoral level of cast bullet shooting. They are not for the faint hearted, lazy or impatient folks. Most of the issues have been overcome.

3. There have also been a couple of very bitter and acrimonious feuds over how it is done. For that reason many of us, just don't want to even hear about the subject. When the subject turns to 6.5 Sweads and the Cruise Missile, my stomach starts to turn.

Therefore, I would suggest those who are interested in learning how to make this bullet work, do a serious search on this site and also go to castpics.com for information.

I have a primo Huskvarna 96 and it does very well with the cruise missile. I have a pair of the original single cavity Lee molds. A former member who went by Oldfeller was the first honcho and when the molds came, the did some sophisticated optical measurements and tweaked the molds before shipping. The subsequent Lee molds have always been inferior to that first run.

Oldfeller left the board as a consequence of one of those bitter feuds. He was cranky, but also very, very knowledgeable. I never had any problems with him and wish he were still around.

Addendum: I have been corrected and the Cruise Missile was not the first group buy on this board. There was another before the Cruise Missle, and it was a pointed 6.5 and was the product of a brain trust headed by Jumptrap.

I also need to say, I know nothing about Carcanos and I am sorry for the thread drift.

[rattletrap1970]

I don't have a Swede per say. I have a Japanese Arisaka re-chambered for 6.5 x 55. At the time I purchased it 6.5x50 Jap was very hard to find and expensive. The twist is 1 in 8.34 which is almost perfect for the "Cruise Missile". My first trip to the range and wild ass shot at designing a load for the gun proved to be promising. I have every reason to believe that the next trip using SR 4759 and seating a bit longer and getting the speed from mid 1200's to low 1600's will improve already fair groups. I will post another copy (with targets) of my data sheet when I do.