lead bullets coated with polymer paint

[Ausglock]

Maybe everyone else already knew this, but this what I discovered. I shot a steel match last weekend, 300 plates. By the end of the match I am noticing some leading and quite a bit of smoke. I just switched from 124 grain lee tumble lube bullets to 135 grain NOE bullets. Both using the hi-tek coating. After I got home I decided to pull a few left over rounds and I discovered the reason, I was stripping off the coating on the front grease ring. I use lee dies. I put more bell in the case, then adjusted the seating die the whole way in and set the bullet depth with the die body. I have a lee final size die, I use it to crimp the round next. I used a very light crimp. As you can see in the picture, the problem is solved. No leading, little smoke.

G'day bmiller.
Mate, you have discovered what Aussie shooters have found out years ago when loading any lead bullet. That is to flare,bell the case mouth until at least 2mm of the bullet base will sit in the case at the seating die station on the press.
Everyone that I teach to reload is scared to flare the case mouth too much cause they are scared of splitting cases. I always ask if they want nice accurate ammo or nice cases, but with leaded barrel and poor accuracy.

When loading with a new bullet or different shape I always load up a dummy round and them pull it to check the bullet has still got full coating.

I load 38 special with 135gr wadcutters that are coated with HI_TEK. these have a heavy crimp. Even these bullets when pulled still have full coating.

I only use Dillon presses (550B for 9mm, 357Sig, 38 Super, 40S&W, 38 Special 357Mag. and Square deal B for the 45ACP) but most are fitted with Lee dies.
Outstanding effort there, Mate. well done.

[prickett]

I can't recommend enough the use of the appropriate Lyman "M" die.
It will basically eliminate any shaving of the coating if used properly.
I have one for each calibre that I load cast boolits for, and I would not have it any other way. Well worth the investment.

If using a Lee powder thru the die for 9mm, replacing its expander with a 38 S/W's expander works wonders for 9mm's too. See this posting: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...=1#post2163536

[Skip62]

Wanted to update on cost of HT. I just bought some from Donnie in black one liter is $68 now as he is buying in much larger volume. 5 teaspoons double coated 600 bullets of various calibers and weights twice. (45acp to 9mm). 202 teaspoons in a liter. 40 5 teaspoon batches per liter. so it will coat 24000 bullets per liter. That is .002833333 cents per bullet. How does one say that this is expensive? Granted 5.00 HF is cheaper but HT is proven by a much larger audience. I will continue to buy the hi tech and play with powder coat for different colors. just wanted to put it in prespective for you guys under the impression this stuff is super expensive. At a penny per 33 bullets roughly expensive it IS NOT!

Every thing being relative. $68 is 40lbs of lead and the HF PC.

As far as being "far superior", a 700 hp engine in vehicle used for rush hour traffic, not superior to anything. For my uses, I see no difference, and I have both products.

[bmiller]

G'day bmiller.
Mate, you have discovered what Aussie shooters have found out years ago when loading any lead bullet. That is to flare,bell the case mouth until at least 2mm of the bullet base will sit in the case at the seating die station on the press.
Everyone that I teach to reload is scared to flare the case mouth too much cause they are scared of splitting cases. I always ask if they want nice accurate ammo or nice cases, but with leaded barrel and poor accuracy.

When loading with a new bullet or different shape I always load up a dummy round and them pull it to check the bullet has still got full coating.

I load 38 special with 135gr wadcutters that are coated with HI_TEK. these have a heavy crimp. Even these bullets when pulled still have full coating.

I only use Dillon presses (550B for 9mm, 357Sig, 38 Super, 40S&W, 38 Special 357Mag. and Square deal B for the 45ACP) but most are fitted with Lee dies.
Outstanding effort there, Mate. well done.

Thanks Ausglock, I am a Dillon fan as well. I started out many moons ago loading on a square deal B, am loading on a 650 right now. I am going to sell it as soon as my 1050 gets here. I am glad the Austrailian bullet technology has made it here.

[TES]

Jeeze HFPC is more for me a color option vs cost. It is also an availability option. One liter coats 24000 bullets ...all the same color. Hard to change color for a client when you have to wait...(best guess) just to get pink for that very nice lady who wants to shoot spme pretty boolits. If I bout a 5 liter pack and had the option to add pigment and change color I would buy this vs. experimenting with something else. As it stands there is not an option for this. I asked and got a cold shoulder as if I was trying to pry some secret from the guy. Kinda pissed me off!

[Ausglock]

TES. The colour in the HI-TEK coating is that fine that it will actually flow through a finer filter than 0.1 micron.
From what I understand, finding chemicals that fine that are used to colour the coating is not easy.

Well. I fired off a heap of HI-TEK coated pills today.

Heaps of 45ACP being driven hard at 200 power factor with no leading and great accuracy.
Lee 228RN, Lee 230FP machined back to 205gr, Lyman 452374, Lee 200SCW converted to 205gr. All are great. These are now gunna be pumped out for my 45.

Some Lee 120gr CON were loaded and fired in SVI 9mm and Kimber Stainless Target 2 in 38 Super. No leading and great accuracy no issues at all. These are also gunna get pumped out.

Some Lee 125gr RN were loaded and fired in Kimber Stainless Target 2 in 38 Super. No leading and great accuracy. No issues at all. These are also gunna get pumped out.

The Lee 175gr FP 40 cal is still giving headaches. The soft alloy and the harder alloy still showed some leading. not as bad as last time, however.
The soft is 10BHN. The hard is 13BHN. I have some 15BHN (92,6,2 alloy). I'm going to cast some from this alloy and try it.

The Lee 150gr RN 357Mag load ran through the Desert Eagle like excrement through a goose. Outstanding accuracy and zero leading. Also pumped a few through a S&W 586 4" with no issues

My Buddy has a Para in 40S&W. I'm going to get him to try some through his gun with conventional rifling, Rather than through my Factory Glock barrel.
I am also going to try some of the 125gr RN 9mm sized to .357 for Major loads in my 357Sig barrel in the G35. My 357Sig barrel is actually .357 when slugged.

So. very good results for most and a bit more trial for the 40 cals.

"Infidel Projectiles" are a goer....You beauty...

Now to decide If a Magma Master caster or a Ballisti-caster are in my future. A co-conspirator and Myself are considering the possibilities.

Stay tuned... same bat time...Same bat channel..

[prickett]

The Lee 175gr FP 40 cal is still giving headaches. The soft alloy and the harder alloy still showed some leading. not as bad as last time, however.
The soft is 10BHN. The hard is 13BHN. I have some 15BHN (92,6,2 alloy). I'm going to cast some from this alloy and try it.

I don't understand why you'd be getting leading. These coatings ought to seal the lead off from the barrel. I'm not understanding how leading would be possible. Can you fire some into phone books or water jugs to recover the bullets. That way you could check to see if the coating survived the trip down the barrel.

[piglet]

Every thing being relative. $68 is 40lbs of lead and the HF PC.

As far as being "far superior", a 700 hp engine in vehicle used for rush hour traffic, not superior to anything. For my uses, I see no difference, and I have both products.

Exactly!

Why pay several times more for a product if another product ($6 HarborFreight PC or any other Epoxy PC) is good enough and easier to use too?
And is much easier to get, has almost unlimited pot life, several colors, and so on.....

[Frankv]

Piglet- From your experience can you Premix the pc and acetone and store it in an airtight container without the pc deteriorating. I have been mixing as needed.
If I can premix a pint, I can submerse a small parts basket with about 500 9's in it, agitate it and set them out to dry.Then seal the pint container.

[Ausglock]

I don't understand why you'd be getting leading. These coatings ought to seal the lead off from the barrel. I'm not understanding how leading would be possible. Can you fire some into phone books or water jugs to recover the bullets. That way you could check to see if the coating survived the trip down the barrel.

Yep going to try the phone book thing. I forgot to take them with me today.

I believe powders play a part in leading, So I'm going to try a faster powder than WSF.

The bullets pulled from the loaded ammo show no loss of coating during loading.
Having said this. I am full on producing the 45, 9mm and 358 dia bullets.

[Frankv]

Trevor- The formula (from the pages of HandLoader Magazine) to determine at what pressure an alloy of given BHN will obturate the base of the bullet and seal the bore. If the bullet is too hard to obturate, gas cutting usually occurs on the base band on the non-driving side of the rifling and barrel leading is likely.
Simply multiply the alloy BHN by 1,422.
Example: Alloy BHN of 12 multiplied by 1422 = 17,064. An alloy of 12 BHN should be used with a load that develops a "minimum" of 17,000 psi
With that in mind does the gas cutting effect the coating.

[Skip62]

Piglet- From your experience can you Premix the pc and acetone and store it in an airtight container without the pc deteriorating. I have been mixing as needed.
If I can premix a pint, I can submerse a small parts basket with about 500 9's in it, agitate it and set them out to dry.Then seal the pint container.

Yes you can, if it does dry, you just add more acetone. I bought a mixer from Rockler that goes on 1 quart cans. I just turn the handle a few times and start pouring.
http://www.rockler.com/m/product.cfm?page=31675

It mixes far easier, and more completely, than anything else I've tried.

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

[piglet]

Piglet- From your experience can you Premix the pc and acetone and store it in an airtight container without the pc deteriorating. I have been mixing as needed.
If I can premix a pint, I can submerse a small parts basket with about 500 9's in it, agitate it and set them out to dry.Then seal the pint container.

I have stored it in a glass jar with an airtight lid for some 5-6 weeks, normal room temperature.
That works very well anyway.

I have not had any reason to store the mix for longer periods.

The powder I have had for about 10 months now.

[Skip62]

If I can premix a pint, I can submerse a small parts basket with about 500 9's in it, agitate it and set them out to dry.Then seal the pint container.

Please keep us posted on how well this works.

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

[prickett]

Yep going to try the phone book thing. I forgot to take them with me today.

I believe powders play a part in leading, So I'm going to try a faster powder than WSF.

The bullets pulled from the loaded ammo show no loss of coating during loading.
Having said this. I am full on producing the 45, 9mm and 358 dia bullets.

Its odd that the 9mm doesn't lead but the .40 does. Both fire at about the same pressure. Seems that if one works the other should too.

[popper]

Lee 175gr FP 40 cal is still giving headaches

Try cycling a few and inspect the coating for scratch & ding.

[dverna]

I have read the last 8 pages of this massive thread and have the following comments:

There are claims of pistol accuracy - but almost no mention of groups. I doubt accuracy claims are from a Ransom rest or even sandbagged. So, I am left with questions. Hand held pistol groups will tell you if you have a junk load but not if you have an accurate load - unless you can shoot high expert or master Bullseye at 50 yards. If so, sign with your real name so we can check you out.

There seems to be even less information on rifle loads. With the PITA of multiple coating and drying cycles and small batches this method would have merit if it produced consistently accurate bullets at velocities over 2000 fps. I doubt the claim of 3200 fps unless it is supported by someone here who has an established reputation. Otherwise I call it BS and marketing hype to justify sales.

For pistol bullets (which I use in large quantities) I will keep lubrisizing with a Star and process 800 a hour. This PC or HT system offers no advantages at all. If you are leading with pistol bullets, something is wrong with your methods and there are more efficient solutions.

There are arguments about cost that make no sense to me. If this method saves a few dollars per thousand but only produces 100 bullets an hour (after triple coating, drying and sizing) is it really worth the loss in productivity?

I suppose if pretty bullets are a big deal this is the way to do it. I will take good groups over pink or neon bullets anytime. But that's just me.

The proponents of PC, or epoxy paint need to succulently identify the advantages of their system. If the only advantage is the "cool factor" - that is OK but it is worthless to people who either shoot a lot or want superior performance (accuracy/speed). The only niche I see is the potential to shoot softer lead at higher velocities for social work or hunting. And in that case, so few projectiles are needed, that lower production rate and cost are minor issues. But then testing needs to show the improvement in terminal ballistics.

Don Verna

PS - And no, if you look me up I no longer shoot Bullseye - but I did 35 years ago.

[bmiller]

Don, the reason I started playing with coated bullets is to reduce smoke. If I get a chance I will shoot some groups off of a rest. I am merely trying to exchange information, I have nothing to gain or loose if you use coated bullets or not.

[Liberty'sSon]

Dverna, my interest in the coatings, Hi Tek in particular, is because of it's proven track record in factory Glock barrels. I know many people shoot traditionally lubed lead in Glocks with no issues however I believe this to be a better system.

[popper]

Dverna - check out the other PC thread for posted accuracy/group results. No smoke, no lead, higher fps without GC, same or better groups, etc. My range only allows resting on a padded 2x4 for pistol. I shoot rifle off bags, scoped. I haven't found any reason yet to NOT use it, I use the ES gun to coat.