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Thread: lead bullets coated with polymer paint

  1. #1061
    Quote Originally Posted by Ausglock View Post
    G'day All.

    Well. interesting results today.
    The 100 rounds 45ACP using a Lee 200SWC coated with 2 coats HI-TEK Supercoat worked fantastic. The bore was clean and the shots grouped very well at 20 yards from a standing position. Very little smoke.

    The 100 rounds of 38Super using a Lee 125gr RN were also wearing 2 coats of HI-TEK Supercoat. again the bore was clean and no signs of leading. Accuracy was great and no issues.

    The 40S&W loads were Lee 175gr FP with 2 coats of HI-TEK Supercoat. these were fired in a Glock 35 40S&W factory barrel. After 10 rounds the bore was leaded really bad. I fired another 10 rounds and stopped as the lead fouling was severe.
    The alloy used was the same for all 3 different types of bullets.
    Maybe the alloy was too soft for the 40cal (13BHN) MIght try again with water quenching of the 40 bullets to see of they harden up enough to work.

    But... This is my first try. I am determined to keep trying and work it out.
    I'h more than happy with the results for the 9mm and 45 pills. there are the main ones I use, So I will be concentrating on producing these.
    I'll Update as I go along.

    Thanks.
    The crimp when seating the bullet might be a little tight. Try backing off a bit. I noticed when I pulled a few bullets (Bayou) they had the coating removed. So I backed off a little on the crimp and all coating was there after pulling a few more.
    I currently have 200 # of pure lead FS!!!

  2. #1062
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by TES View Post
    Pig how much in your guesstimate would a 16 oz. container of HF PC actually coat?
    I do not have any idea. But must be very many.
    I have a 10 kilos bag, have coated several thousand, maybe 5, seems that the bag is still full.

    You do not waste anything. If You have too much mixture and it somehow dries out, add acetone and use it.

    Actually I think that the powder does not cost anything since HFPC costs only less than $6 for 16oz.

  3. #1063
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankv View Post
    Thanks, I will thin it out a little more next time.
    Hey, I did not mean You! I was answering to Popper and writing of my own bullets.

  4. #1064
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankv View Post
    I did a little fishing around on the makeup of PC.A lot of colors are derived from different iron oxides,which could make those colors abrasive,maybe? Blacks are colored with carbon black, which has some of the same lubricant qualities as graphite.
    Gold contains copper and carbon black.
    You can verify this by pulling up the MSDS forms for DuPont powder coating.
    The polymer is Bisphenol A which is a food grade polymer.
    The HF PC is epoxy which makes it less elastic.
    .

    Should test this gold variant.
    If it is more elastic than epoxy, it might be a very good thing, especially if thinking of rifle bullets.
    Some bullet painters use gold or coppar colored coatings with rifle bullets, for example these:

    http://www.rpgfirearms.com.au/WESTCASTINGS.htm

    And Australian shooters claim they are very good.

  5. #1065
    Boolit Master popper's Avatar
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    Thanks piglet. I went by the bar code, found it was made in india by a company that primarily made non-epoxy PC. Made a wrong assumption, but I really wanted to know if it was thermoplastic or setting. I used up my jug of white, just got into into the jug of red, dumped in with the remaining white to get pink, still have a jug of black. Can't tell any performance difference between them so far. I did several thousand with the first jug of white, wasted a lot on the learning curve so I say it's almost free.
    Whatever!

  6. #1066
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    Quote Originally Posted by popper View Post
    Thanks piglet. I went by the bar code, found it was made in india by a company that primarily made non-epoxy PC. Made a wrong assumption, but I really wanted to know if it was thermoplastic or setting. I used up my jug of white, just got into into the jug of red, dumped in with the remaining white to get pink, still have a jug of black. Can't tell any performance difference between them so far. I did several thousand with the first jug of white, wasted a lot on the learning curve so I say it's almost free.
    Pink bullets. Cool!
    Test the black. It might be better, because of the soot or graphite in the black. Might?

  7. #1067
    Boolit Bub
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    The HF powder coating is thermosetting,
    Epoxy powder coating (FBE coatings) are thermoset polymer coatings. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_..._epoxy_coating

    Once cured, thermosetting powders are heat stable and, unlike thermoplastic powder coatings, will not revert back to the molten stage when reheated. Thermosetting powders are also tougher, have better adhesion to metal substrates, and are more resistant to solvents and chemicals than thermoplastic coatings. Thermosetting powders account for about 95% of all powder coatings.

    The HF powder coat does not soften when reheated,so it is a themosetting polymer.
    i have requested the MSDS's from HF, as we need to have them on the premise as all other chemicals(OSHA Chemical log)
    I will make it available when/if I get it.
    if you research the MSDS's from different manufacturers,they are the pretty much the same depending on color.Some colors have Iron oxides,some have copper or other substrate,these create the colors.It would be advantageous for us to find out which have the best lubricating qualities,ect. There is a reason the manufactures of the products offered to our industry uses certain colors.

  8. #1068
    Boolit Master TheDoctor's Avatar
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    Cool! Black for general shooting, red for a real slow fire lapping!

  9. #1069
    Boolit Master prickett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausglock View Post
    A bit premature, don't you think?

    The HI-TEK Supercoat is a great coating. easy to use. proven performance in pistol and rifle loads for over 20 years. Now available to the DIY caster who wants only the best. Certified by independent Lab testing to reduce airborne lead to levels less than copper plated bullets.

    One has to wonder... If HI-TEK Supercoat is no good, why is Bayou bullets always sold out as soon as a shipment arrives?

    I would like to see a few of the PC bullets smashed with a hammer to see if the PC holds on to the lead like the Supercoat does.

    Thanks.
    Take a deep breath and re-read my post. Nowhere did I state HI-TEK is no good.

    Currently we have at least 4 great ways to lube - HI-TEK, Sprayed Powder Coating, Epoxy paint, and Piglet Coat (powder paint dissolved in acetone).

    The sprayed powder coat seems the most difficult to do due to having to spray the bottom of bullets. Looking at the jigs people are building to allow full coverage turned me off. Plus, you need to buy a spray gun.

    The other three all are equal in terms of ease of application, number of applications required, and baking of the coating. The reason I'm so high on Piglet Coat is:

    It is the most readily available of these three options. Powder paint from HF (or a multitude of other stores) and acetone from any hardware store.

    It is the least costly of these three options.

    It allows a much smaller investment to determine whether to continue or not (I was all set to plop down $100 to see if I liked HI-TEK - but, since it wasn't available, and since I'd just learned about Piglet Coat, I plopped down $6 for the powder instead - I already had the acetone)

    I don't know if Piglet Coat can stand up to as high of pressures or smash tests as HI-TEK or Epoxy. But, I also don't care. My use case is coating 9mm, .357, and .45 ACP and not getting leading or smoke while maintaining accuracy. It is completely successful doing that. So, I'm 100% satisfied

  10. #1070
    Boolit Man
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    Have any of you guys tried the spray on epoxy paint? I found some rusoleum epoxy appliance spray on paint at the local store. In this small town it's hard to find much of anything. I might order some PC later on.

  11. #1071
    Boolit Man
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    OK here's one I made with the above mentioned paint. Seems pretty tough, will have to size and load some this afternoon.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  12. #1072
    Boolit Master Ausglock's Avatar
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    G'day Wrinkles.
    I tried Brake drum paint a few years ago. It was Hi temp etc. Didn't work. The paint didn't stay of the pill during firing, So I went back to conventional lubing/sizing. But now I'm playing with the HI-TEK Supercoat and having great success with it. I found out why my 40 cal pills didn't work. I had far too soft alloy (tested at 10.4 on the Lee hardness chart) and didn't allow long enough for the first coat to dry prior to cooking. We are now in winter and I leave the coated but not cooked pills to sit for 30 minutes to ensure that the coating has had the acetone and underlying moisture has dried off. In summer, 10 minutes will be fine.
    I cast some more at 15 BHN last night. They will get coated tonight and fired on Sunday to see how they go.

    I have been casting and coating a few 1000 45 pills since Sunday. The Supercoat worked great on them.
    Thanks to HI-TEK for a great product.

    While I was casting and coating last night, I got a Call from the owner of Topscore Projectiles. He is the Largest and best commercial bullet manufacturer in Australia and has been using Supercoat for over 10 years on his cast bullets. He heard that I was playing with the HI-TEK Supercoat for home casters. He was a huge help in offering some pointers as to where I was going wrong and what could be done to streamline the whole coating process. We had a good old yap about alloys, coating and casting.

    Thanks, Robert.
    Last edited by Ausglock; 06-04-2013 at 05:21 PM.
    Hooroo.
    Regards, Trevor.
    Australia

  13. #1073
    Boolit Man
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    Thanks for the info Ausglock. The HI-TEK stuff is too expensive and I really am a DIY kinda of guy so I don't want to buy some something like that I want to mix and stir and bake and play and ... well you the the point. I've put an order for some harbor freight PC, that will be my next experiment. Again thanks for the heads up on the Brake drum paint I was actually looking at that next.

  14. #1074
    Boolit Master prickett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausglock View Post
    I found out why my 40 cal pills didn't work. I had far too soft alloy (tested at 10.4 on the Lee hardness chart) and didn't allow long enough for the first coat to dry prior to cooking.
    Robert,
    Are you going to retry using soft alloy, but allowing long enough for the first coat to dry prior to cooking? One thing I'm after with these new lubing methods is to be able to shoot soft alloy. Wheel weight sources are drying up, so being able to shoot pretty much any alloy is a goal of mine.

    I'll be trying straight lead with Piglet Coat in a few weeks. It'll be interesting to see if any method allows using soft lead.

  15. #1075
    Boolit Master Bullwolf's Avatar
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    Wrinkles, I tried using a regular automotive type spray paint back on page 8 of this thread - post #159. Here's a link back there, for folks who just came to the thread.
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...er-paint/page8

    It worked OK (no leading and same accuracy as my tumble lube) for pistol stuff in my application. However, it was not a very durable coating and I did not enjoy the extra hassle involved.

    I also felt the need to point out that RustOleum's "Appliance Epoxy" spray paint, is not a true epoxy paint. It's actually an enamel, with an "appliance epoxy like" finish.
    http://rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=101

    OVERVIEW:
    Rust-Oleum Specialty Appliance Epoxy is an ultra-hard, moisture resistance enamel that is specifically formulated for indoor metal surfaces. It provides a smooth, washable surface for refinishing the exterior of appliances such as refrigerators, dishwashers, laundry machines, and other indoor metal applications (cabinets, tables). Do not use on objects exposed to heat (stovetops, oven interiors, etc)


    I accidentally bought a spray can of RustOleum's Appliance Epoxy spray paint intending to refinish an appliance (dryer) in a rental unit with a somewhat durable finish. I found out the name was just a bit of creative advertising from RustOleum for an enamel spray paint that included the words epoxy, and appliance on the label.

    I do have a couple of cans of real epoxy spray paint on hand from another manufacturer. I can't see why an actual epoxy spray paint wouldn't work as well as the normal automotive spray paint did for me. The epoxy stuff is generally a bit more durable after all.

    I have not tried using the epoxy spray paint as a boolit coating... yet. Just the earlier automotive VHT roll bar and chassis spray paint I used and referenced back on page 8.







    - Bullwolf

  16. #1076
    Boolit Bub
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    When a thermoset powder is exposed to elevated temperature, it begins to melt, flows out, and then chemically reacts to form a higher molecular weight polymer in a network-like structure. This cure process, called crosslinking, requires a certain temperature for a certain length of time in order to reach full cure and establish the full film properties for which the material was designed. Normally the powders cure at 200C (390F) for 10 minutes. The curing schedule could vary according to the manufacturer's specifications. The application of energy to the product to be cured can be accomplished by convection cure ovens infrared cure ovens, or by laser curing process. The latter demonstrates significant reduction of curing time.
    The secret is cure to cross linking, which changes the powder to a irreversible coating.

  17. #1077
    Boolit Master Ausglock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prickett View Post
    Robert,
    Are you going to retry using soft alloy, but allowing long enough for the first coat to dry prior to cooking? One thing I'm after with these new lubing methods is to be able to shoot soft alloy. Wheel weight sources are drying up, so being able to shoot pretty much any alloy is a goal of mine.

    I'll be trying straight lead with Piglet Coat in a few weeks. It'll be interesting to see if any method allows using soft lead.

    G'day Prickett.
    Robert is the owner of Topscore Projectiles. I'm Trevor.
    Sorry for the confusion on my last post.

    Robert stated that he used Supercoat on pure soft lead in his testing years ago.
    He said that alloy at 10BHN should work provided the first coat is applied and cooked correctly.
    I still have some of my first casting soft 40 cals, so they will get coated and tried again on Sunday.

    Regards, Trevor
    Hooroo.
    Regards, Trevor.
    Australia

  18. #1078
    Boolit Man
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    Well I loaded 100 rounds I'll see if I can go out sometime during the week to shoot a few rounds and check on the results. I'll have to wait for the PC to come in to continue my testing.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  19. #1079
    Quote Originally Posted by prickett View Post
    Robert,
    Are you going to retry using soft alloy, but allowing long enough for the first coat to dry prior to cooking? One thing I'm after with these new lubing methods is to be able to shoot soft alloy. Wheel weight sources are drying up, so being able to shoot pretty much any alloy is a goal of mine.

    I'll be trying straight lead with Piglet Coat in a few weeks. It'll be interesting to see if any method allows using soft lead.
    I'm really interested in if this works for you. I have a lot (1200lbs)of soft sheet lead/roofers lead that I would like to use without having to mix with harder lead maybe just add some tin.

  20. #1080
    Boolit Master popper's Avatar
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    Franky - I think the HF powder is less thermosetting than the hi-tek stuff. My PC'd rejects 'slump' into a puddle in the pot, evidently hi-tek doesn't. You are correct, once cured neither is reusable. I was curious about the remelt temp., if it would leave a residue in the bbl. Someone posted that it did in a fast 223 load.
    Newshooter - My alloy is 1-2% Sb and the PC does help, I can run hotter loads and maintain accuracy. I'll jump out on the limb and SWAG it to say you get 10-20% increase in effective hardness. It doesn't give the >30 BHN of Cu. Maybe someone with a tester could give a better number?
    Whatever!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check