I currently have 200 # of pure lead FS!!!
I have a 10 kilos bag, have coated several thousand, maybe 5, seems that the bag is still full.
You do not waste anything. If You have too much mixture and it somehow dries out, add acetone and use it.
Actually I think that the powder does not cost anything since HFPC costs only less than $6 for 16oz.
Should test this gold variant.
If it is more elastic than epoxy, it might be a very good thing, especially if thinking of rifle bullets.
Some bullet painters use gold or coppar colored coatings with rifle bullets, for example these:
And Australian shooters claim they are very good.
Thanks piglet. I went by the bar code, found it was made in india by a company that primarily made non-epoxy PC. Made a wrong assumption, but I really wanted to know if it was thermoplastic or setting. I used up my jug of white, just got into into the jug of red, dumped in with the remaining white to get pink, still have a jug of black. Can't tell any performance difference between them so far. I did several thousand with the first jug of white, wasted a lot on the learning curve so I say it's almost free.
The HF powder coating is thermosetting,
Epoxy powder coating (FBE coatings) are thermoset polymer coatings. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_..._epoxy_coating
Once cured, thermosetting powders are heat stable and, unlike thermoplastic powder coatings, will not revert back to the molten stage when reheated. Thermosetting powders are also tougher, have better adhesion to metal substrates, and are more resistant to solvents and chemicals than thermoplastic coatings. Thermosetting powders account for about 95% of all powder coatings.
The HF powder coat does not soften when reheated,so it is a themosetting polymer.
i have requested the MSDS's from HF, as we need to have them on the premise as all other chemicals(OSHA Chemical log)
I will make it available when/if I get it.
if you research the MSDS's from different manufacturers,they are the pretty much the same depending on color.Some colors have Iron oxides,some have copper or other substrate,these create the colors.It would be advantageous for us to find out which have the best lubricating qualities,ect. There is a reason the manufactures of the products offered to our industry uses certain colors.
Cool! Black for general shooting, red for a real slow fire lapping!
Currently we have at least 4 great ways to lube - HI-TEK, Sprayed Powder Coating, Epoxy paint, and Piglet Coat (powder paint dissolved in acetone).
The sprayed powder coat seems the most difficult to do due to having to spray the bottom of bullets. Looking at the jigs people are building to allow full coverage turned me off. Plus, you need to buy a spray gun.
The other three all are equal in terms of ease of application, number of applications required, and baking of the coating. The reason I'm so high on Piglet Coat is:
It is the most readily available of these three options. Powder paint from HF (or a multitude of other stores) and acetone from any hardware store.
It is the least costly of these three options.
It allows a much smaller investment to determine whether to continue or not (I was all set to plop down $100 to see if I liked HI-TEK - but, since it wasn't available, and since I'd just learned about Piglet Coat, I plopped down $6 for the powder instead - I already had the acetone)
I don't know if Piglet Coat can stand up to as high of pressures or smash tests as HI-TEK or Epoxy. But, I also don't care. My use case is coating 9mm, .357, and .45 ACP and not getting leading or smoke while maintaining accuracy. It is completely successful doing that. So, I'm 100% satisfied
Have any of you guys tried the spray on epoxy paint? I found some rusoleum epoxy appliance spray on paint at the local store. In this small town it's hard to find much of anything. I might order some PC later on.
I tried Brake drum paint a few years ago. It was Hi temp etc. Didn't work. The paint didn't stay of the pill during firing, So I went back to conventional lubing/sizing. But now I'm playing with the HI-TEK Supercoat and having great success with it. I found out why my 40 cal pills didn't work. I had far too soft alloy (tested at 10.4 on the Lee hardness chart) and didn't allow long enough for the first coat to dry prior to cooking. We are now in winter and I leave the coated but not cooked pills to sit for 30 minutes to ensure that the coating has had the acetone and underlying moisture has dried off. In summer, 10 minutes will be fine.
I cast some more at 15 BHN last night. They will get coated tonight and fired on Sunday to see how they go.
I have been casting and coating a few 1000 45 pills since Sunday. The Supercoat worked great on them.
Thanks to HI-TEK for a great product.
While I was casting and coating last night, I got a Call from the owner of Topscore Projectiles. He is the Largest and best commercial bullet manufacturer in Australia and has been using Supercoat for over 10 years on his cast bullets. He heard that I was playing with the HI-TEK Supercoat for home casters. He was a huge help in offering some pointers as to where I was going wrong and what could be done to streamline the whole coating process. We had a good old yap about alloys, coating and casting.
Last edited by Ausglock; 06-04-2013 at 05:21 PM.
Thanks for the info Ausglock. The HI-TEK stuff is too expensive and I really am a DIY kinda of guy so I don't want to buy some something like that I want to mix and stir and bake and play and ... well you the the point. I've put an order for some harbor freight PC, that will be my next experiment. Again thanks for the heads up on the Brake drum paint I was actually looking at that next.
Are you going to retry using soft alloy, but allowing long enough for the first coat to dry prior to cooking? One thing I'm after with these new lubing methods is to be able to shoot soft alloy. Wheel weight sources are drying up, so being able to shoot pretty much any alloy is a goal of mine.
I'll be trying straight lead with Piglet Coat in a few weeks. It'll be interesting to see if any method allows using soft lead.
Wrinkles, I tried using a regular automotive type spray paint back on page 8 of this thread - post #159. Here's a link back there, for folks who just came to the thread.
It worked OK (no leading and same accuracy as my tumble lube) for pistol stuff in my application. However, it was not a very durable coating and I did not enjoy the extra hassle involved.
I also felt the need to point out that RustOleum's "Appliance Epoxy" spray paint, is not a true epoxy paint. It's actually an enamel, with an "appliance epoxy like" finish.
Rust-Oleum Specialty Appliance Epoxy is an ultra-hard, moisture resistance enamel that is specifically formulated for indoor metal surfaces. It provides a smooth, washable surface for refinishing the exterior of appliances such as refrigerators, dishwashers, laundry machines, and other indoor metal applications (cabinets, tables). Do not use on objects exposed to heat (stovetops, oven interiors, etc)
I accidentally bought a spray can of RustOleum's Appliance Epoxy spray paint intending to refinish an appliance (dryer) in a rental unit with a somewhat durable finish. I found out the name was just a bit of creative advertising from RustOleum for an enamel spray paint that included the words epoxy, and appliance on the label.
I do have a couple of cans of real epoxy spray paint on hand from another manufacturer. I can't see why an actual epoxy spray paint wouldn't work as well as the normal automotive spray paint did for me. The epoxy stuff is generally a bit more durable after all.
I have not tried using the epoxy spray paint as a boolit coating... yet. Just the earlier automotive VHT roll bar and chassis spray paint I used and referenced back on page 8.
When a thermoset powder is exposed to elevated temperature, it begins to melt, flows out, and then chemically reacts to form a higher molecular weight polymer in a network-like structure. This cure process, called crosslinking, requires a certain temperature for a certain length of time in order to reach full cure and establish the full film properties for which the material was designed. Normally the powders cure at 200°C (390°F) for 10 minutes. The curing schedule could vary according to the manufacturer's specifications. The application of energy to the product to be cured can be accomplished by convection cure ovens infrared cure ovens, or by laser curing process. The latter demonstrates significant reduction of curing time.
The secret is cure to cross linking, which changes the powder to a irreversible coating.
Robert is the owner of Topscore Projectiles. I'm Trevor.
Sorry for the confusion on my last post.
Robert stated that he used Supercoat on pure soft lead in his testing years ago.
He said that alloy at 10BHN should work provided the first coat is applied and cooked correctly.
I still have some of my first casting soft 40 cals, so they will get coated and tried again on Sunday.
Franky - I think the HF powder is less thermosetting than the hi-tek stuff. My PC'd rejects 'slump' into a puddle in the pot, evidently hi-tek doesn't. You are correct, once cured neither is reusable. I was curious about the remelt temp., if it would leave a residue in the bbl. Someone posted that it did in a fast 223 load.
Newshooter - My alloy is 1-2% Sb and the PC does help, I can run hotter loads and maintain accuracy. I'll jump out on the limb and SWAG it to say you get 10-20% increase in effective hardness. It doesn't give the >30 BHN of Cu. Maybe someone with a tester could give a better number?
|BP||Bronze Point||IMR||Improved Military Rifle||PTD||Pointed|
|BR||Bench Rest||M||Magnum||RN||Round Nose|
|BT||Boat Tail||PL||Power-Lokt||SP||Soft Point|
|C||Compressed Charge||PR||Primer||SPCL||Soft Point "Core-Lokt"|
|HP||Hollow Point||PSPCL||Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt"||C.O.L.||Cartridge Overall Length|
|PSP||Pointed Soft Point||Spz||Spitzer Point||SBT||Spitzer Boat Tail|
|LRN||Lead Round Nose||LWC||Lead Wad Cutter||LSWC||Lead Semi Wad Cutter|