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Thread: lead bullets coated with polymer paint

  1. #941
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skip62 View Post
    2nd batch looks much better than the first. This is MEK(acetone) and HF PC.
    Attachment 71780
    Well done. they look very professionally done.
    Are they 9mm ammo?
    Now, I suppose it is testing time, & shooting them.
    Have you sized any as yet?
    Please size, and take close up photo to show after sizing.

  2. #942
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skip62 View Post
    2nd batch looks much better than the first. This is MEK(acetone) and HF PC.
    Attachment 71780
    I thought MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone) and Acetone were different products. Am I wrong???

    (I often am wrong)

    Stan

  3. #943
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whizzer View Post
    I thought MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone) and Acetone were different products. Am I wrong???

    (I often am wrong)

    Stan

    You are correct, Acetone is Dimethyl (Methyl, Methyl) Ketone, and MEK is Methyl Ethyl Ketone.

  4. #944
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    Quote Originally Posted by HI-TEK View Post
    You are correct, Acetone is Dimethyl (Methyl, Methyl) Ketone, and MEK is Methyl Ethyl Ketone.
    I stand corrected. So is one better for this than the other? I was under the impression that MEK was a better solvent for the poly stuff, but as already noted, I've been wrong before

    I did size them, can't take pictures right now, but will. They are rougher than the poly paint, but if I get similar results, I don't care.

  5. #945
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skip62 View Post
    I stand corrected. So is one better for this than the other? I was under the impression that MEK was a better solvent for the poly stuff, but as already noted, I've been wrong before

    I did size them, can't take pictures right now, but will. They are rougher than the poly paint, but if I get similar results, I don't care.

    The Acetone and MEK are closely related with solvency.
    Some resins dissolve better with Acetone, and others dissolve better in MEK.
    PolyEster resins and Epoxy resins have various solubility levels in both solvents, and solubility is directly related to resins molecular structure or polymer size, (molecular weight), and modifications made to the resin.
    The higher the molecular weight, and, the more cross linking, the slower of dissolution into specific solvents.
    Sometimes, blended solvents are better at dissolving various resins ( better solvency).
    As an example, in Automotive paints two pack type, (resin and catalysts), the blended solvents extenders are used as solubilising, thinning agents and reducer to allow good leveling & flow during drying and designed to provide good application and finish of coatings.
    To dissolve Powder paint resins, the polymer and catalyst is already premixed, so in trying to ascertain correct solvent or solvent blends to dissolve components, you need to maybe establish solubility parameters for ingredients.
    Sometimes, to get that sort of information is not easy as manufacturers may not supply such data.
    In many coatings, the solvents play a role in obtaining film formation, leveling, flow characteristics and sometimes gloss of resin film systems.

    In terms of your desire to get similar results to poly paint, what are your target benefits that you are trying to achieve, when you are trying to get similar results to Poly paints?
    I suppose, I am trying to understand your desired end goals.
    Last edited by HI-TEK; 05-28-2013 at 07:18 AM. Reason: spelling

  6. #946
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    HI-TEK.

    I now have my oven, Trays, measuring cups, a few 1000 45 and 9mm cast bullets.
    I'm going to do the first coating and curing tomorrow arvo.
    Photos to follow.
    Hooroo.
    Regards, Trevor.
    Australia

  7. #947
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausglock View Post
    HI-TEK.

    I now have my oven, Trays, measuring cups, a few 1000 45 and 9mm cast bullets.
    I'm going to do the first coating and curing tomorrow arvo.
    Photos to follow.
    Hope all is well.
    If you need help, please advise

  8. #948
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    I finally got around to another run with this. Recoated and cured some 155gr 30 cal and some 9mm bullets. This time I had much better coverage and cured the paint better. I shot 85 of them thru the blackout yesterday, I used gas checks. Accuracy was good, gun cleaned up well afterwards and no leading in the barrel nor gas system (AR15).
    I am sizing the 9mm and hope to try them soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by garym1a2 View Post
    I think I under cooked a batch of the Hi-tek lube (black), is it ok to rebake and recoat or should I recoat and than bake. I also seemed to have not coated very thick.
    Second question is when the material is diluted should I mix and catalized the material and its catalist first and than add the actetone?

  9. #949
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    Quote Originally Posted by garym1a2 View Post
    I finally got around to another run with this. Recoated and cured some 155gr 30 cal and some 9mm bullets. This time I had much better coverage and cured the paint better. I shot 85 of them thru the blackout yesterday, I used gas checks. Accuracy was good, gun cleaned up well afterwards and no leading in the barrel nor gas system (AR15).
    I am sizing the 9mm and hope to try them soon.
    Well done.
    I am unfamiliar with "blackout", what type of gun and what velocity were you expecting?
    Just a few suggestions, when applying first coat, just apply very thin stain coat (key coat) to just barely coat alloy, and ensure that fist coat is totally dry before baking.
    Appearance at this stage is not important.
    After baking, check that first coat is bonded well, and try to size a couple first, to determine adhesion of first coat.
    If not baked/cured and adhering to alloy, do not apply a second coat, as the first coat, if not stuck properly, investigations is needed to determine why.
    If it sizes OK, after first coat, then apply second coat, again just enough to coat.
    Dry well at each application before baking.
    This ensures that you do not waste materials.
    Please report how you went with it all.

  10. #950
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausglock View Post
    HI-TEK.

    I now have my oven, Trays, measuring cups, a few 1000 45 and 9mm cast bullets.
    I'm going to do the first coating and curing tomorrow arvo.
    Photos to follow.
    Gday Mate.
    Looking forward to your post tomorrow arvo.
    Cheers

  11. #951
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    Hey I have not read all of the up-dated posts on this thread,, but wanted to tell what happen using this coating with AR-15 223 bullets,
    Using the Lyman 2 Cavity # 225646 DC Mould 22 Cal. 55 Grains Rifle Bullet Mould

    I cast bullets, and coated them, with 3 coats Hi-Tek,, sized them , loaded them and tested,, OUCH,,, terrible,, not even a basket ball size group at 25 yds.
    Why so bad, lack of spin on the bullet, it will not stabilize, so they need more spin,, more contact with the bore!
    So next test, I did not size them they were .226 3 coats of Hi-Tek. Better,,, still not good,, volleyball at 25 Yds.
    So I’m on the right track.
    I coated the cast bullets to .230 I don’t remember how many, coats,,,,, I coat them,, bake them, and measured,, till they were .230,, they weight,, 59.2 GR,, Ish,, 59GR to 59.6 GR when I loaded them I belled the case mouth as to make sure I did not shave off, any bullet, I set the bell,, by, belling the case just enough to get it in and out of the case gage, before loading it, so crimp, was not a factor. I used 20 GR,, H4895


    I tested them again this weekend, and Bingo!!!!!!!! I’ll post, some pic’s when I get them off my Phone,
    Shooting my 16 inch AR with just a Red Dot, I shot, two groups on, two IDPA tgts, 3 per head, smaller than base ball shot groups. Maybe 2.5 inch,, with a dot,, only resting the front of the gun, I did not bench it,, , And they all feed,,, and shot,, I did not Crony them,,,,
    No leading in the barrel. Clean,
    I now have AR rounds for my Local 3 Gun Matches! Success!
    Author of: The 3 Gun Multi Gun Report

    morrisammo.com

  12. #952
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    300ACC Blackout. They take and AR15 5.56 mm case. Cut the neck off the case so its 35mm long and size the diamter to 30 cal (.308). I use a 155 Gr Lee cast bullet sized to .309 inch after painting step is completed. I rather not guess too much on velocity, the goal with this round is to match 30-30 preformance in an AR15, I am sure its higher than 1500 and less than 2000fps first guess. Once I get my routine down for this round I will crono it. Once thing to keep in mind on cast bullets is proper case diameter, my expander for the jacket rounds did not work. They shave off the paint and some lead. So I used a 7.62R sizer to expand the case neck to .313.


    Quote Originally Posted by HI-TEK View Post
    Well done.
    I am unfamiliar with "blackout", what type of gun and what velocity were you expecting?
    Just a few suggestions, when applying first coat, just apply very thin stain coat (key coat) to just barely coat alloy, and ensure that fist coat is totally dry before baking.
    Appearance at this stage is not important.
    After baking, check that first coat is bonded well, and try to size a couple first, to determine adhesion of first coat.
    If not baked/cured and adhering to alloy, do not apply a second coat, as the first coat, if not stuck properly, investigations is needed to determine why.
    If it sizes OK, after first coat, then apply second coat, again just enough to coat.
    Dry well at each application before baking.
    This ensures that you do not waste materials.
    Please report how you went with it all.

  13. #953
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  14. #954
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    Quote Originally Posted by morrisammo View Post
    Hey I have not read all of the up-dated posts on this thread,, but wanted to tell what happen using this coating with AR-15 223 bullets,
    Using the Lyman 2 Cavity # 225646 DC Mould 22 Cal. 55 Grains Rifle Bullet Mould

    I cast bullets, and coated them, with 3 coats Hi-Tek,, sized them , loaded them and tested,, OUCH,,, terrible,, not even a basket ball size group at 25 yds.
    Why so bad, lack of spin on the bullet, it will not stabilize, so they need more spin,, more contact with the bore!
    So next test, I did not size them they were .226 3 coats of Hi-Tek. Better,,, still not good,, volleyball at 25 Yds.
    So I’m on the right track.
    I coated the cast bullets to .230 I don’t remember how many, coats,,,,, I coat them,, bake them, and measured,, till they were .230,, they weight,, 59.2 GR,, Ish,, 59GR to 59.6 GR when I loaded them I belled the case mouth as to make sure I did not shave off, any bullet, I set the bell,, by, belling the case just enough to get it in and out of the case gage, before loading it, so crimp, was not a factor. I used 20 GR,, H4895


    I tested them again this weekend, and Bingo!!!!!!!! I’ll post, some pic’s when I get them off my Phone,
    Shooting my 16 inch AR with just a Red Dot, I shot, two groups on, two IDPA tgts, 3 per head, smaller than base ball shot groups. Maybe 2.5 inch,, with a dot,, only resting the front of the gun, I did not bench it,, , And they all feed,,, and shot,, I did not Crony them,,,,
    No leading in the barrel. Clean,
    I now have AR rounds for my Local 3 Gun Matches! Success!
    Congrats! Did you use a gas check?

  15. #955
    Boolit Bub morrisammo's Avatar
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    No gas Check.

    I'll play with them at 100 yds,, at some point,, but for my Local 3 gun Match,,, this just saved me,,, Big $$$$$$$$$$$
    Author of: The 3 Gun Multi Gun Report

    morrisammo.com

  16. #956
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    Quote Originally Posted by morrisammo View Post
    Hey I have not read all of the up-dated posts on this thread,, but wanted to tell what happen using this coating with AR-15 223 bullets,
    Using the Lyman 2 Cavity # 225646 DC Mould 22 Cal. 55 Grains Rifle Bullet Mould






    I cast bullets, and coated them, with 3 coats Hi-Tek,, sized them , loaded them and tested,, OUCH,,, terrible,, not even a basket ball size group at 25 yds.
    Why so bad, lack of spin on the bullet, it will not stabilize, so they need more spin,, more contact with the bore!


    So next test, I did not size them they were .226 3 coats of Hi-Tek. Better,,, still not good,, volleyball at 25 Yds.
    So I’m on the right track.
    I coated the cast bullets to .230 I don’t remember how many, coats,,,,, I coat them,, bake them, and measured,, till they were .230,, they weight,, 59.2 GR,, Ish,, 59GR to 59.6 GR when I loaded them I belled the case mouth as to make sure I did not shave off, any bullet, I set the bell,, by, belling the case just enough to get it in and out of the case gage, before loading it, so crimp, was not a factor. I used 20 GR,, H4895
    I tested them again this weekend, and Bingo!!!!!!!! I’ll post, some pic’s when I get them off my Phone,
    Shooting my 16 inch AR with just a Red Dot, I shot, two groups on, two IDPA tgts, 3 per head, smaller than base ball shot groups. Maybe 2.5 inch,, with a dot,, only resting the front of the gun,

    I did not bench it,, , And they all feed,,, and shot,, I did not Crony them,,,,
    No leading in the barrel. Clean,
    I now have AR rounds for my Local 3 Gun Matches! Success!
    You mention belling the case AFTER you coated the bullets to .230. Did you also bell the case at either of the smaller sizes? If not is it possible that you just swayed the smaller ones below .224 thus causing the large groups and by belling and coating to .230 you are actually swaging. Them back down to .224 or .225? I don't have a ton of experience, but I would be concerned firing a bullet that oversized. Can you pull one of the .230 bullets that has been loaded and check the actual size that it leaves the case head down the barrel? Also remember power factor for. Using them in 3 gun. Please don't take any of this as criticism because you are doing exactly what I have in mind and these are questions I would ask of myself if I had made the progress you have.

  17. #957
    Boolit Bub morrisammo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liberty'sSon View Post
    You mention belling the case AFTER you coated the bullets to .230. Did you also bell the case at either of the smaller sizes? If not is it possible that you just swayed the smaller ones below .224 thus causing the large groups and by belling and coating to .230 you are actually swaging. Them back down to .224 or .225? I don't have a ton of experience, but I would be concerned firing a bullet that oversized. Can you pull one of the .230 bullets that has been loaded and check the actual size that it leaves the case head down the barrel? Also remember power factor for. Using them in 3 gun. Please don't take any of this as criticism because you are doing exactly what I have in mind and these are questions I would ask of myself if I had made the progress you have.
    I did bell the mouth of the case, for the other loads...
    My Cast bullets,, are not as hard as a jacket,, so I was only a lil worried about them being bigger,,,

    As for 3 Gun,, Only USPSA matches have power factor, and most 3 Gun Matchs,, run outlaw rules,, most outlaw rule matches have no power factor,, , I went to the USPSA 3 Gun ,Nationals, two times,,, those are the only Match That my ammo has ever been tested,, any place,,, , , for a local match, its all good, My wife,, and kids shoot 3 Gun as well, Some Pics are on my webpage,,,
    The Cast AR bullets,,, will save me $30++++ in hard to replace,, rifle bullets,, every month,,

    I'm pretty happy!! about that,
    Author of: The 3 Gun Multi Gun Report

    morrisammo.com

  18. #958
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    I have been applying gas checks to mine. You have inspired me to shoot some without checks . I have been shooting a pile of 9mm with the hi-tek lube with good results . That would be great to do away with gas checks. Lately I have been using 21.5 grains of wc844. Velocity is about 2300 in my 16" rifle.

  19. #959
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    P.S. Morrisammo are you using h4895 in a Dillon powder measure? I could not get it to measure consistently with mine.

  20. #960
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmiller View Post
    I have been applying gas checks to mine. You have inspired me to shoot some without checks . I have been shooting a pile of 9mm with the hi-tek lube with good results . That would be great to do away with gas checks. Lately I have been using 21.5 grains of wc844. Velocity is about 2300 in my 16" rifle.
    Oh ya,,, gas checks,,, are not cheap,, so I'm more than happy,,, about Cheap!!!!!!!

    I was using a Hornady Powder, measure,

    with the trouble getting powder and primers,, I have been buying any type of powder that I can find data for,, I will test with other powders,,, (I should say,,, I will,,,, just load with other powders,,, and shoot them in a match!
    Author of: The 3 Gun Multi Gun Report

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check