lead bullets coated with polymer paint

[piglet]

Is this powder coating powder?

Yes, it is.

[piglet]

the big advantage for me is, it's smokeless, and the barrel is extremely clean. You will never need to put a single patch down the barrel...EVER! ! !

btw, time in actually doing anything is minimal, it's just waiting for it to dry, and I'm off doing something else while that's happening. I spent probably 5-10 minutes doing 250, then size, I'm guessing it's about the same actual labor time.

Also Your reloading dies stay clean.
Red, blue, green and black shiny bullets look nice too.

[HDS]

What speeds have you pushed these bullets to, would it be suitable for 223 velocities?

[Dolomite_supafly]

I wonder if you could use alcohol as a suspension for the powder coat?

I wonder if you could use a spray bottle to apply the powder mixture to bullets that are standing up?

I am looking for something that will keep lead fumes out of my face when I shoot my AR. I poisoned myself in February and the most likely exposure is when I shoot. My face is black with soot after a few hundred rounds of shooting my AR in 300BO. The gases come out of the side of the bolt about 6" away from my face. When actually casting I take precautions.

[bmiller]

Thank you Piglet! Can't wait to give it a whirl!

[piglet]

What speeds have you pushed these bullets to, would it be suitable for 223 velocities?

I have tested between 300 and 350 meters/second.
Only 9mm and .357.
223 velocities - no idea, maybe not suitable since it is epoxy powder coating, just the method to put the powder on the bullets before baking and several layers, is different from what for example Ares does.

But test it!

[HDS]

I figured epoxy out of the available choices was the most likely to work. I dunno what Ares uses but I asked if their coatings could work at rifle velocities and they said no.

[Skip62]

Ok, I tried mixing MEK and Horrible Freight PC. I started with 1 to 1, 2 teaspoons of each in a jelly jar, had to start somewhere. It took a lot of shaking and stirring to mix it up, but it did mix. Tumbled 1 coat, a little thin, poured them onto a wire rack, and let them sit about 5 minutes for the to MEK flash off, then back in the bucket with some more mix. I put it on kinda thick, not on purpose, let the MEK flash off and cured in the oven for 20 minutes at 400°. Hard stuff. It didn't coat as evenly as I'd like, but I think that's just practice. Shot 20 of them, seemed fine, chrono'd the same as the Klass Kote bullets. Klass Kote works out pretty cheap, but this is should be much cheaper. I've got some epoxy PC ordered, it should be better quality, I hope, and maybe mix better. The HF really does clump bad. Using PC instead of the epoxy paint saves a lot of time I believe. I just checked the jelly jar and it's still mixed, I would think pot life in a sealed jar like that would be quite long, which could be a big advantage to me.

ps, they don't look anywhere as good as xacex's PC'd bullets, actually didn't look very good at all....

[MacFan]

Ok, I tried mixing MEK and Horrible Freight PC....

I wonder, if thinned enough, if the PC powder/vehicle/MEK mix would shoot out of a coarse nozzled air brush? Looks like I've gotta go dig out my airbrushes.

[HI-TEK]

I wonder, if thinned enough, if the PC powder/vehicle/MEK mix would shoot out of a coarse nozzled air brush? Looks like I've gotta go dig out my airbrushes.

Powder coating paints, epoxy or not, are made so that there is minimum dust produced when applying it as powder spray. (controlled powder particle size manufacture)
Powder coating coatings are made for "powder coating without use solvents"
Particles in the powder coating, that do not dissolve, may be far too large for your applications and may be cause uneven surface when dissolved resin is air dried.
Dilution more with solvents, may not produce better results, as the resin becomes spread further as thin film and particles may clump further making surfaces look rougher.
Depending on spray gun, the nozzle may get blocked as most small spray guns cannot handle solids as they are designed for solutions not suspensions.

In terms of stability of solubilised powder coatings, what may be not known is, that the powder paints have already included the catalyst in correct ratio, for correct curing.
Because powder paints are dry, the catalyst is reasonably inactive, and that is why powder coatings are is stable until used.
By dissolving the resin with catalyst, you make the catalyst become "available" in more intimate contact with resin, and stability may not be as good as expected.

However, the experiments are interesting reading and am looking forward to the posting of more test results.

[xacex]

ps, they don't look anywhere as good as xacex's PC'd bullets, actually didn't look very good at all....

Hey, who cares what it looks like in the beginning. If it works use it! In time you will get this perfected for utility, and if you can get it to look good it is just a bonus. I just tried the P/C thing first because I ordered the stuff before the feller on YouTube posted what he was using. The P/C works, but why limit yourself to one method if there are different ways of doing the coating thing. You will probably get better usage out of using the MEK with powder coat then the traditional method. From the looks of it I may only be able to coat 12 to 1500 boolits per pound of powder. You should be able to double that.

[Skip62]

HI-TEK, good info, keep it coming.

xacex, yeah, I'm with you on looks, but yours were SOOO pretty. Especially that .45 after recovery...WOW I just don't have the patience to set all them bullets up...HA!
I figure with Klass Kote I could do over 10,000. Judging by the cost of the HF PC by volume, I should double that, and it's less than half the cost.

Thanks for all I'm learning here. Great forum!

[HI-TEK]

HI-TEK, good info, keep it coming.

xacex, yeah, I'm with you on looks, but yours were SOOO pretty. Especially that .45 after recovery...WOW I just don't have the patience to set all them bullets up...HA!
I figure with Klass Kote I could do over 10,000. Judging by the cost of the HF PC by volume, I should double that, and it's less than half the cost.

Thanks for all I'm learning here. Great forum!

Happy to keep up data.
I did spend 10 years with detailed contact and technical input with powder formulations and with manufacturers.
For some applications powder coating may be suitable. But as with some coatings, some problems may arise with heat.
Very few coatings will withstand heat and do not soften.
Some coatings epoxy or other seem to be affected with heat and become soft.

I use two pack epoxy to glue on my fishing rod runners and tips. It is very good and sets very hard and flexible.
When rod tips & runners are broken or damaged, I simply warm metal parts with a cigarette lighter and the stuff gets soft and I can easily remove damaged tip.

This sort of scenario, with heat, may occur with someone shooting a lot of rounds, where barrel heats up, and or where high energy powders are used where there is excessive heat and friction being produced.
It must be kept in mind that the powder paints are well designed, and have specific uses, but I have some doubts about use and suitability for some applications that are being proposed.

It may be possible, to have custom powder coating resin system made specifically for powder coating alloy, but to my knowledge, there is none available as manufacturers are reluctant to make such a product because of low volume requirements and high cost to develop such a product.

From the solvent coating technology developed, there is an opportunity to possibly produce a powdered version of the alloy coating.
I do not know if such material can be applied with electrostatic applicators. (never tried it)
However, I know, that such a system, may be able to be dissolved in suitable solvents, and can be used for ammo after coating, drying, & heat curing.
I have had thoughts about producing such a product, so that shipping flammable liquids around the world can be eliminated and would reduce costs significantly.
Users can then source their own solvents, and make up coating mixture as required.
It seems to be a lot of work, but I already am most of the way there, as I do make solvent based resins, for the solvent coating systems which I know will work.
To make it into a powder, is a little more difficult but not impossible.

[piglet]

Whatever....

I am anyway VERY happy with the results I have got with the easy method - epoxy powdercoat mixed with acetone.
I am using a very thin mixture, the first coat does not give much color at all. After each coat - bake in 190-200 degrees centigrade around 10 minutes, let cool, next coat.

This method works so well that I am not going to use anything else.

But ofcourse, I understand the criticism that comes from somebody who is trying to sell the expensive stuff.....

[HI-TEK]

Whatever....

I am anyway VERY happy with the results I have got with the easy method - epoxy powdercoat mixed with acetone.
I am using a very thin mixture, the first coat does not give much color at all. After each coat - bake in 190-200 degrees centigrade around 10 minutes, let cool, next coat.

This method works so well that I am not going to use anything else.

But ofcourse, I understand the criticism that comes from somebody who is trying to sell the expensive stuff.....

Thank you for the Interesting results.
I am glad that you are finding success with what you are doing.

Just curious, where have you seen criticisms you refer to? Can you please show example/s?

In terms of your reference, to "someone selling expensive stuff", who is selling expensive stuff, and,
as compared to what?
Can you please advise what you are referring to, and, what are you comparing, as examples of something being more expensive than another?

I really would appreciate your input, of how you arrived at your conclusions, to support your statement?

It would be appreciated by all, if you can advise, how you determined costs comparisons, and cost, efficiency & benefit when comparing one product over another?
I am sure others would appreciate how you arrived at your conclusions, when you refer to someone selling expensive stuff.

What was your baseline & methodology, to commence to do cost efficiency, and comparative data, to reach your conclusions, and to support your statement of someone "trying to sell the expensive stuff"?

It would be very useful data for all to use, and refer to in the future.

[MacFan]

Powder coating paints, epoxy or not, are made so that there is minimum dust produced when applying it as powder spray. (controlled powder particle size manufacture)
Powder coating coatings are made for "powder coating without use solvents"
Particles in the powder coating, that do not dissolve, may be far too large for your applications and may be cause uneven surface when dissolved resin is air dried.
Dilution more with solvents, may not produce better results, as the resin becomes spread further as thin film and particles may clump further making surfaces look rougher.
Depending on spray gun, the nozzle may get blocked as most small spray guns cannot handle solids as they are designed for solutions not suspensions.

In terms of stability of solubilised powder coatings, what may be not known is, that the powder paints have already included the catalyst in correct ratio, for correct curing.
Because powder paints are dry, the catalyst is reasonably inactive, and that is why powder coatings are is stable until used.
By dissolving the resin with catalyst, you make the catalyst become "available" in more intimate contact with resin, and stability may not be as good as expected.

However, the experiments are interesting reading and am looking forward to the posting of more test results.

Acetone is quite commonly used in industry as a working thinner for epoxies with no, or few, ill effects on the final cured resin.
I do admit I don't have 14 years of coating experience but I did have more than just a few semesters of polymeric chemistry.
Below are pics of a quick trial done this morning.
Harbor Freight PC in an acetone vehicle.
Shot from an old Paasche double acting air brush. -No- clogs were encountered.
Baked at 400F. The coating seems to be as tough as any other I've done. Actual shooting will tell the truth on this. Would I do 1000 boolits this way? Nope.

[piglet]

Looks good.

For more boolits, use the ages old bucket method.

Is this Harbor Freight PC epoxy or is it polyester?

[MacFan]

Looks good.

For more boolits, use the ages old bucket method.

Is this Harbor Freight PC epoxy or is it polyester?

I suspect it's an epoxy based resin by the way some of it dissolved in the acetone. It's Harbor Freight number 93309.

I may PC a couple hundred boolits to keep on hand but for day to day shooting I've been pretty happy with Lee's Liquid Alox.

[piglet]

I have checked it. It is Epoxy. And that is a very good thing!!!

They seem to have different colors too, black, white, yellow and red.
Besides it does not cost much anything, 16 oz, $5.49.

Check this link: http://www.harborfreight.com/catalog...?q=powder+coat
-----------------------------------------------------------
Name 16 Oz. Powder Coat Paint, Red
SKU 93309
Color Red
Material Plastic Container, Epoxy Resin Powder
Product Length 4-1/4 in.
Product Width 4-1/4 in.
Size(s) 16 oz.
-------------------------------------------------------

[Michael J. Spangler]

This thread and the powder coat thread are killing me.

I wish I did t have to go to a wedding today. I would be casting and coating for sure.

Still waiting in a back order for hy-tek through bayou bullets.

Has anyone seen or used this yet?
http://www.powderbuythepound.com/-NE...quid_2_Powder/