Sorry,Originally Posted by TES
I must have been overcome with solvent fumes, or was it the ethanol??? lol
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Sorry,
I must have been overcome with solvent fumes, or was it the ethanol??? lol
Hi,
Apology for late reply, but I missed your blog. It may have been more advantageous if you had sent me a private message as I get a notice when that happens.
Just to get my head around your questions, am I reading it correctly, that you re-sell coated projectiles made in US, with coatings shipped from Europe?
I do not understand how any one can patent a coating on or for projectiles. These type of applications have been commercially around for many years, as commercial products of various mixtures with various successes.
I have been producing coatings now for 20 years.
I really would like to discuss your blog, privately, as you have sparked my interest with what you had stated.
Please send me in a private email your contact details so we can communicate and not infringe any spam controls applicable in the site.
Joe
Ethanol....? you mean homemade bullet cleaner right?
They call it "common sense". Why is it so uncommon?
Noooo, not so lucky. I think that there would be many "high" coaters loving the stuff. lol
Kidding aside, unfortunately Ethanol is not as useful to make resin system as I would like. It would be much "greener" and possibly a little healthier.
You did give me an idea to have a look at such possibility to try.
Thanks much. If I get success or failure I will post. But, it may be a while before testing will be finished.
HI-TEK,
I misspoke (or mis-wrote?) when I used the word patented. I meant to say that the process is licensed to a manufacturer in the United States using a proprietary coating. The coating is shipped from Europe. I have no knowledge of the formula or what state is, either powder or liquid. PM will follow.
2old2play
Thanks for reply and explanation.
There are many coatings around, and some companies do license use of these for various applications. Majority are a proprietary or secret coating mixture, and manufacturers usually want to protect their territories by appointing a licensee for specific areas.
In areas such as the US, as there is such large areas to cover, sometimes it is not practical to appoint a single distributor, as they cannot cope with volume or supply adequate sales support and distribution.
I would be interested to learn any information about the coating you mention.
Please advise as possible
Joe
Hello all, this is my first time posting. I have purchased the Hi-Tek coating in black and it seems to scrap off fairly easy with my finger nail.
Can some one clarify for me the baking process.
Should it be, pre-heat oven to 375 and then bake for 8-10 minutes once projectiles (in my case 9mm .356) are placed in the oven.
I have been pre heating oven, then place projectiles in the oven and monitor temperature with a digital thermometer. Once thermometer reaches the 375 i then leave them in for 3 1/2 minutes. Once cooled i rub one with a Acetone soaked rag and no coating comes off. I keep reading that this should be a very hard coating.
What am i doing wrong? Thanks in advance for any help.
Last edited by east coast caster; 04-17-2013 at 09:06 PM. Reason: spelling
Mix coating catalyst well. Take out quantity required of coating, Catalyst and solvent in separate containers.
Mix coating in ratio of 5 parts Coating, One Part Catalyst and add 5 parts Solvent.
Mix well.
Coat projectiles with just enough to stain. Allow to dry.
Put into an oven, Do not overload oven as it will not bake evenly.
Bake for 8-9 minutes at oven set at 190C to 195C (or equivalent Fahrenheit)
If you have a small oven, after about 3-4 minutes with protective gloves, (hot), shake tray to loosen and roll around projectiles and put back into the oven and continue baking until cured.
If coating has not been subjected to correct heat, and for enough time, it will simply not stick to alloy as it does not go through curing stage correctly.
The coating if not cured properly, can be compared to you dissolving salt into water, then baking it, residue will be dry salt, which can be rubbed off easily and it will not stick.
If you heat to melt the salt, it will bond strongly and it should be similar in comparison to the coating resin.
Dont be afraid of damaging the coating at 190-200C as long as you do not keep it in the oven for long periods. ( Each user must determine suitable times in oven required and will also depend on how much alloy is placed into the oven at one time)
To test coating, when cool, simply put through one or two coated projectiles with sizing process and see what happens.
If it goes through sizing OK, without coming off, it is OK to recoat a second and or third time as required.
Hope it helps
PM sent
I finally got to coat a variety of boolits and loaded up some in the 9mm Makarov, 380 auto, 38 special, 41 magnum, and 30-06. The 41 and 30-06 are gas checked for this first test.
Velocity should be 1,350 fps to 1,450 fps for the 41 and 1,650 to 2,000 fps for the 30-06. It will probably be the end of next week before I can get to the range.
The coating process went very smoothly and is easy to do. I have a small toaster oven to bake them in and 2 racks with the hardware cloth on them for drying and baking. Two racks really helps. I am going to look for a larger oven as I am confident this will prove to be a worthwhile process.
I used Lee push thru sizer for all but the 9mm Mak and had to use an occassional bollit lubed with RCBS case lube to reduce the pressure needed to push the boolit thru the die. Part of this may be from the fact that the baking reduces the BHN of my water quenched alloy from 14 BHN to 8 BHN. 8 BHN is the same as if I air cooled the cast boolits.
I am going to cast some 22 cal boolits from linotype and coat these for use in my Contender 223 Rem. I will also cast a few of the 38 cal boolits of linotype and do a hardness test before and after cooking.
If the tests go well for the 41mag and 30-06 I plan to repeat it with no gas checks and will post the results. I hope to get the 30-06 velocity up to around 2,600 fps at least with or without the gas checks.
Thank you for the info. I am very interested in the non gas checked 30/06. .223 would make sense to me as well if you could cast it fast and use this without gas checks at normal velocities.
In the market for a multicavity Mi-Hec 9mm HP mold.
I presently cast for .380 ACP, 9mm, .38/.357, 30 cal and .45 and 12 Ga slug.
I am particularly grateful for the help I have gotten from members Red333 and MSRdiver, and OLD Para (who made a crazy mold on my design!!!!!) as well as excellent guides by Recluse for his ideal lube process. I have been experimenting with poly coating too.
PM me if you know of a very cheap source of birdshot, or an efficient way to make #4 Buck.
Been following along somewhat. Isn't this more work than just lubing the traditional way?
Hi,
I really do not understand the question in relation to comparing one type of lube to another type,
as each process requires varying manufacturing techniques and equipment which also takes up some time before producing finished products.
I suppose, it really comes down to personal requirements when making product and comparing total time for one against another process.
Then costs to produce a quantity, may also come into considerations.
I suppose, the question you raise, may be related to volumes per hour, per day or other that is required.
With the coating method, if set up correctly, especially when producing large volumes, the process allows coating about 1000 per 2-3 minutes. The actual application of coating takes about 15-20 seconds, the rest of the time is emptying mixer and reloading with non coated projectiles.
Commercial casters can coat easily 50,000 per day or more.
They have normally several sizers working to keep up after coating process.
Home hobbyists set up with basic equipment may be able to coat several thousand per hour.
I have not seen any wax lubed sizers being able to produce such volumes with traditional wax type lubes.
That german guy released his coating recipe, from what I can tell it doesn't look like it's anything like the coatings used in australia, similar in some ways but not the same:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiFxA...ature=youtu.be
Only tested to 1200fps so far but I will probably make a batch of this and test it in various calibers, if I get my hands on the australian coating I can make a comparison at rifle speeds.
It looks like no matter what coating is applied the bullets need to go thru the sized after coating.
The time may not be in the coating but in the sizing.
Each single bullet needs handling to size without some form of automation on the sizing.
Regular lube would still be as fast but the smoke reduction and lube removal in the reloading equipment would benefit from some variant of coating.
The removal of lube in the reloading equipment maybe more important if the reloading is to some degree automated.
Just my thoughts.
The process by the guy from Germany is very interesting.
Powder coating still requires sizing as does the curing of a liquid coating all of the coatings take cooking time in an oven.
An automated sizer seems to be required for a large volume of production for all cast bullets.
G'day all.
I will soon be using some of HI-TEK's coating.
I will be using a Lee C press mounted upside down with a Lee sizer die and push rod fitted to the Ram. The bottom of the ram will be connected to a SEW geared motor that will lower and raise the ram. I have alloy channel wide enough to act as a guide slide to allow the bullets to slide down to the sizer ram.
It will be a poor man's Star sizer type setup, with motor driven ram.
I have a Sunbeam fan convection oven on order to do the curing.
Will see how it goes
Hooroo.
Regards, Trevor.
Australia
I'd like to see a youtube video of that setup.
In the market for a multicavity Mi-Hec 9mm HP mold.
I presently cast for .380 ACP, 9mm, .38/.357, 30 cal and .45 and 12 Ga slug.
I am particularly grateful for the help I have gotten from members Red333 and MSRdiver, and OLD Para (who made a crazy mold on my design!!!!!) as well as excellent guides by Recluse for his ideal lube process. I have been experimenting with poly coating too.
PM me if you know of a very cheap source of birdshot, or an efficient way to make #4 Buck.
Good day Trevor,
It sounds like you are onto it.
It would be good to get your set up to show others.
I have just built a same oven and am fixing a new household stove fan motor on it, but mounted outside heat with and extended shaft that goes through oven wall.
Inside, I will mount fan to shaft, so the motor should last a long time, as it is not in the heat as normally found inside household ovens.
I will also fit a dial type thermometer through the wall so I can see what is happening inside oven with temperatures before and after loading.
I will take pictures and post it when I do it.
Hi,
I thought I must make a few points about the video release you refer to.
If it is examined as to his website, he is shown as a producer of coated projectiles.
I would be happy to be corrected, if I had made any wrong assumptions, mistakes or had misunderstood details displayed in the video as released on the 15th May.
This person, had previously released a U-Tube video, where, he canvassed people to join his site with the promise, if enough people joined, then he would release all details of the coating and process and formulations.
Other information advised on that video, was that he spent a lot of money and time inventing the coating material.
During that same video, coated projectiles was shown, which looked identical to ones being produced using my coatings, (Dark Green, as used in Australia ans in the US).
In the video it is further advised that the poster of the U-Tube video, did not want any money for the release of information based on conditions that he had enough people join his web site.
It was further advised in this video, that the coatings, formulations and techniques were going to be released in several video preparations.
Most recently, on the 15th May 2013, another video was released by apparently the same person.
It is a most interesting video for several reasons.
It is not understood, why a manufacturer would suddenly decide to release his secret coating and methodology and specifically to his customers at his own detriment, and, especially when if it is believed from his previous advice, that he had spent a lot of money developing the coatings???
In video released on the 15th, showed detailed coating method, equipment and advised the alleged formula used.
When facts are examined, it appears, that despite previous video claiming that he developed the formulation which he was going to release, in fact, the resin system that was claimed as being invented by him, is a commercially purchasable two pack epoxy coating, produced by another company, to which he added a lubricant aid.
It is difficult to understand how such material can be initially claimed as being developed by the person preparing the video, and, how a lot of money was spent to develop the coating when it was not his invention in the first place and coating material used was produced by another company?
The video, that is now released on the 15th May 2013, the original dark green coating shown in the previous video is nowhere to be seen.
Further, it seems that the video released on the 15th, was prepared in such a manner, as to totally include all detailed and precise coating method, equipment used, as was previously published and circulated months ago, in two separate U-Tube videos, by user of our coating located in USA.
Many other technical aspects as included in the video released on the 15th.
All such details can be found on our data sheets and materials safety data and coating data that has been in circulation for many years.
The same information in exact detail now is appeared to be used in the video promotions as released on video on the 15th May 2013 using the epoxy coating method.
Further, it appears on the video released on the 15th May 2013, and, the video that was prepared, was now being supplied to shooters with "intent to help", and, person preparing video, is "asking for money donations" to help him repair and replace his equipment from flood damage.
Questions needed to be asked how it was to the advantage of a cast coated projectile manufacturer to release his coating, coating method and procedures, when he was selling his coated projectiles to his same clients?
When comparing my coating to the one advertised in the video release on the 15th May 2013, the total use portrayed is exactly the same as my coating advice, but it appears several serious inconsistencies become evident.
The video on the 15th, showed a cement mixer which was alleged as being used after modification with plastic ribs. Examining the mixer, it is totally clean and looks new and unused.
The question arises, if this equipment as portrayed, was used to coat projectiles, why was it not coated with cured resin system? (When epoxy sets it is very difficult to remove, and I could not see any set epoxy in the mixer advertised in the video as item being used)
If the presenter of the video uses this mixer, why did they opt show how to coat using a bucket system and similar to US released home user method?
The video portrayed on the 15th May 2013, uses a two pack Epoxy.
We use a two pack system but it is not Epoxy.
The Epoxy used in video on the 15th May, sets at room temperature and is warmed to 100C, for what purpose, it is unclear and not advised.
No heat stability is supplied above 100C for the Epoxy coating as used in the portrayed video.
Our coating does not cure at room temperature and cures at temperatures above 180C.
Our coating can be recycled as many times as required, and until it is heat cured, and, then it sets at temperatures above 180C to produce a non-fusible self lubricating tough coating.
Every thing else portrayed in the video released on the 15th, actually matches in exact detail of what we had been advising and freely available to shooters around the world for many years, and, as contained on our data, coating techniques and material safety data.
We developed and manufacture and produce resins that are used in our manufacture of the coatings we have supplied for at least 20 years.
Our coatings are truly our invention from the beginning and commencing back in since 1991.
I wonder what was true intent of the video as released on the 15th May????
I went to the range Thursday with some Hi-Tek coated boolits loaded in the 30-06, 41mag, 9X18 Mak, and 380acp. All loads shot very well with the 9X18 and 380 actually shooting some 1" groups at 10 yards. The 30-06 turned in the same accurray results of about 1 1/2" at 100 yards it always does from 1,500 fps to 1950 fps. The 41mag turned in some good results at 1" for 5 shots at 25 yards.
No leading and no more smoke than firing jacketed loads.
I am going to change powders from SR4759 to H4895 in the 30-06 and see how much velocity my boolits will take. All boolits shot Thursday were 8 BHN.
Today I coated 2,450 boolits with 5 measuring spoons of the coating. The spoon is one tablespoon or 1.5ml. To tired tonight to figure out how far the liter will go at this rate so if someone wants tofigure it out post it please. All boolits got 3 coats and look great.
I did notice that after I stopped for lunch I did not shake my container of mixed product enough and the copper had settled to the bottom. So make sure you stir or shake well if the container has been setting awhile.
I need another toater oven as using one even with 2 racks is too slow, but still faster than powder coating in my opinion.
As far a the video produced by the German fella his system is very much like powder coating except for the electrical part of it. I noticed when he baked the boolits for 25 minutes he had positioned them upright on the tray. This is the part that would slow it down along with the long bake time. I like the fact that the HT boolits can be in any position and still come out great.
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| BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
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| C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
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| PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
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