lead bullets coated with polymer paint

[HI-TEK]

Thanks for quick reply.
The main things to remember is, coat with diluted catalysed mixture very sparingly.
You can dilute much more if desired to coat more projectiles with a thin stain coat each time.
Bake at your 375 F for about 5-8 minutes (depends on air ciculation being ideal)
Cool between each coat, and reapply same dilute mixture, dry and cook.
If you over cook, then coating will develop a yellow tan going towards brown. Smash test will guide you if you go too far or not far enough.
Dont forget, final appearance is cosmetic in majority. You will get much better at coating as you go. You will be coating in your sleep.
If you had applied 3 coats it should be adequate. Size to suit diameter of your barrel (none of the coating should come off) and go and shoot them.
Please advise how you go.
If you can provide me with a private message with your email, I can send you coating techniques which should be very useful.
Joe

[olaf455]

I am buying hi tek coating as soon as Donnie has more in stock.

[bmiller]

Pm sent. Thank you Joe!

[Whizzer]

So.

If this coating is everything its cracked up to be, would we still need to worry about hardness of the alloy? The oven treatment, needed to cure the coating, would largely nullify water quenching, I think...rendering the alloy much softer. (In fact, a softer alloy within reason-- might obturate better, if I'm thinking right.)

I'm sure this has been addressed, but I failed to find it. Feel free to hotlink to the post(s) if you know where.

Thanks!
Stan

[bmiller]

I shot 55 grain NOE cast over 2700 with no leading. I was skeptical, but since I have played with it I am a believer!

[Liberty'sSon]

Bmiller, was than 2700 fps WITHOUT a gas check?

[bmiller]

No, used a gas check. Working up the nerve to try it without a gas check .

[HI-TEK]

So.

If this coating is everything its cracked up to be, would we still need to worry about hardness of the alloy? The oven treatment, needed to cure the coating, would largely nullify water quenching, I think...rendering the alloy much softer. (In fact, a softer alloy within reason-- might obturate better, if I'm thinking right.)

I'm sure this has been addressed, but I failed to find it. Feel free to hotlink to the post(s) if you know where.

Thanks!
Stan

In terms of softening the alloy, I doubt if treating it at 190-200C for 5-10 minutes should affect hardness.
If any one has hardnes tester, it would be useful to first test hardness average , then bake at 190-200C for about 8 minutes, air cool, and re-check hardness to determine what happens.
It may solve some mysteries about heat treatment at these specific conditions.
Over the years I have not had any one tell me if alloy has been affected at all with bake coating.
It would be good to verify with independent tests being done and reported.
Joe

[Revolver]

I need some assistance. I bought some of the Hi-tek from Bayou Bullets, I guess its Black color. Anyhow, I tried it for the first time yesterday 5 parts coating, 5 parts acetone, 1 part catalyst. The issues I encountered were that the coating would dry before I finished tumbling, so it didn't get into the grooves on the first coating. On the second coating I managed to get full coverage but they were still dry to the touch after only a minute or two of tumbling. Each coating was baked at 375 deg for 8.5 minutes in a preheated toaster oven. They passed the smash test and the acetone test. I sized them, loaded them, and thought I was golden but after only 10 rounds through my 45ACP my barrel was full of crud. See pic below. Could you advise me on what I might be doing wrong and how to improve my results? Thank you.

[HI-TEK]

I need some assistance. I bought some of the Hi-tek from Bayou Bullets, I guess its Black color. Anyhow, I tried it for the first time yesterday 5 parts coating, 5 parts acetone, 1 part catalyst. The issues I encountered were that the coating would dry before I finished tumbling, so it didn't get into the grooves on the first coating. On the second coating I managed to get full coverage but they were still dry to the touch after only a minute or two of tumbling. Each coating was baked at 375 deg for 8.5 minutes in a preheated toaster oven. They passed the smash test and the acetone test. I sized them, loaded them, and thought I was golden but after only 10 rounds through my 45ACP my barrel was full of crud. See pic below. Could you advise me on what I might be doing wrong and how to improve my results? Thank you.

HI, Thank you for contact.
From various descriptions you advised, there may be several things that need to be examined.
I would like to attach, the genera; guide for coating alloy.
It is fairly long, and covers many areas, and it should help a lot hopefully.
Please read and try again, and if you can please send me your email details I can get to specifics with you as you go.
Hope that this is OK?
Joe
Below is details
J & M Specialized Products Pty Ltd
A.B.N. 97 078 037 653
Phone 02 65569004 Mobile 0412 140 821
Email: jandm@blue1000.com.au
PRODUCT DATA AND APPLICATION
HI-TEK-LUBE SUPERCOATS
For standard, 1X, 2X and LC Black, GREEN & Metallic types.

HI-TEK-LUBE SUPERCOAT’s are a range of heat cured coatings, specifically suitable as dry film lubricants for metal components. On steel, the coatings offer corrosion protection as well as lubrication in areas where normal lubricants cannot be used.
Typical areas where product can be used, in wet, corrosive, dusty or contaminating environments, at elevated temperatures.

DESCRIPTION.

HI-TEK-LUBE SUPERCOAT’s , are solvent based, self-lubricating, paint type coatings, and require specialized Catalyst and heat to fully cure.
Products may not adhere well to polished Stainless steels or Aluminium.
Hi-Tek-Lube Supercoats do not contain any PTFE, Fluoro polymers or Teflon.
Once heat cured, the product range offers excellent lubricity, Impact resistance, and excellent deformation capability, as well as corrosion protection.
The extreme lubricity and durability of the cured coating, allows excellent metal separation and lubrication.
Heat cured coating has excellent heat tolerance and heat reflectivity.
The coating has in built capability to react to high energy input applications to further harden and keep separated metal surfaces without softening or becoming sticky. Heat will not soften correctly cured coating, and excessive heat will produce an extremely hard coating.
The cured coatings is suitable for use in service temperatures of around 150 Degrees Celsius, with intermittent use up to 250 Degrees Celsius.

TYPICAL APPLICATIONS.

Limitations for use depends on the ability to have the coating being heat cured on to the components at curing temperatures.
Until coatings are heat cured, even when dry, the coatings can be easily washed and recycled back into production, with solvents like Acetone, or Methyl Ethyl Ketone.

This phenomena is used as a quality control aid, for curing indication, during manufacture of coated components.
Properly heat cured coatings, are not removed with MEK or Acetone even if the coating is soaked in these solvents.

COATING SUGGESTIONS
MIX Coating & CATALYST WELL BEFORE USE.
Measure out coating, add same amount of dilution solvent, and add required catalyst to diluted mixture.
For example take 100 mls coating, add 100 mls Acetone and add 20 Mls Catalyst.
Prior to using catalysed and diluted mixture, additional solvent may be added to dilute coating if required to allow the coating to coat more product with very thin coating.

Use about 20-30 mls of Catalysed coating mixture to tumble coat onto approximately 1000 projectiles.
Tumble only for 10-15 seconds, and just long enough to coat.
Whilst wet, drop coated projectiles onto drying mesh or trays and air dry until touch dry.
Do not disturb whilst drying is taking place.
Do not tumble dry the projectiles as it will produce unsatisfactory results.
After completely dry, shake tray to loosen projectiles, and place totally dry projectiles into oven and cook at 190C for about 8-10 minutes. Do Not overload each tray, to ensure even heating and curing.

When cooked, take out of oven, cool, and then recoat with same mixture. Repeat all as above.
It is better to apply and heat cure, two or three, very thin diluted coatings, dry totally, and then cure with heat after each coating, to obtain acceptable appearance of finished coating.

When properly heat cured, the coating lubricating quality does not appear to suffer, even if coating film appearance is blotchy or uneven.

As a general guide, curing approximately 5-15 minutes between coating at 180-200 degrees Celsius is essential, as uncured coating will be removed by next coating, if previous coating is not properly cured.

Once the desired coating appearance is reached , then final cure should be held at 180-190 degrees for at least 6-8 minutes.

NOTE. Do not use thick coatings, or try to coat with one thick coating.

Do not over heat or over cure product for excessive periods, as coating becomes extremely hard and brittle, and colour will also darken.

Thick application of coatings will also “weld” metal object together during heat curing, and thick coatings dry slowly, produce undesirable touch marks and may produce uneven and irregular surface after cure.

Thick coatings, also detracts from flexibility of the coatings, and coatings may chip or crack when sizing or impact testing is carried out.

Best results are produced by application of two or three very thin and diluted coatings. Each coat requires drying, and after thorough drying, coating is to be bake cured after each application.

Individual testing of curing requirements, must be determined by user, for optimising each end use application.
Once you determine best product using your processing methods, you then have to reproduce exactly each step on going, to reproduce same results required.

Diluents suitable for coating is Methyl Ethyl Ketone, Acetone, and blends of MEK/Iso- Propyl Alcohol and or Acetone.

IMPORTANT NOTE.
ONLY THOROUGHLY AIR DRIED COATINGS MUST BE HEAT CURED AS UNDRIED COATING IS EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE AND VAPOURS, MAY CAUSE EXPLOSION IN THE OVEN.

CAUTION
The coatings and solvent diluents are highly flammable and coating are and ovens must be away from coating area with adequate ventilation to eliminate any danger of fire from evaporating solvents.

No sparks or flames or smoking near uncured or wet coatings or near solvents.
Avoid skin contact, eye contact and clothing contact, and have adequate ventilation to remove vapours, and appropriate solvent mask is recommended to avoid solvent vapour inhalation.

Do not Spray or Atomise coatings. Application is best achieved by tumbling process.

CURE TIME (indications only) Approximate
TEMPERATURE CURE TIME
180C 10-15 minutes
190C 8-12 minutes
200C 5-8 minutes

NOTE: Time for curing, should start, when the temperature of the product, reaches the desired cure temperature, and heating rate is controlled by ability to circulate hot air in oven.

If loading an oven, say with 50kgs of metal, the temperature of the metal may take some time to reach the set oven temperature, and is directly related to and limited to heating capacity, and air circulation around the objects to be coated.

It is essential to determine optimum conditions, for type and capacity of equipment to be used for the heat curing cycle, to achieve the desired for “actual” cure times, as recommended above.

It is recommended that all ovens are fitted with extremely good air circulation fans, to optimise even cure rate and to maximise fast and even heat transfer to cure coating.

FOR FURTHER TECHNICAL ADVICE PLEASE CONTACT MANUFACTURER.

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

[QUOTE=Revolver;2158146]I need some assistance. I bought some of the Hi-tek from Bayou Bullets, I guess its Black color. Anyhow, I tried it for the first time yesterday 5 parts coating, 5 parts acetone, 1 part catalyst. The issues I encountered were that the coating would dry before I finished tumbling, so it didn't get into the grooves on the first coating. On the second coating I managed to get full coverage but they were still dry to the touch after only a minute or two of tumbling. Each coating was baked at 375 deg for 8.5 minutes in a preheated toaster oven. They passed the smash test and the acetone test. I sized them, loaded them, and thought I was golden but after only 10 rounds through my 45ACP my barrel was full of crud. See pic below. Could you advise me on what I might be doing wrong and how to improve my results? Thank you.

[/QUote

Not sure what type method of tumbling your using, but 20-30 seconds is usually all that is needed to coat the bullets. Even after a 2nd coating the lube grooves may or may not have lube in them. Do not think of the lube grooves being filled as you would the old wax type lubes. The lube grooves can be completely bare of the lube and you get proper lubrication as the coating on the base and driving bands is what provides the protection.
Call or E-mail if you think I can provide further assistance.
225 324 4501
bayoubullets@yahoo.com

[Revolver]

Ok, thanks guys. I think I used too little product so it dried up quick. I was afraid it would be too thick. I think I need to mix it in advance, which I didn't do previously -and- I think I need to thin it a little more prior to use. Will try again and report back.

[fixerupper]

Ok, thanks guys. I think I used too little product so it dried up quick. I was afraid it would be too thick. I think I need to mix it in advance, which I didn't do previously -and- I think I need to thin it a little more prior to use. Will try again and report back.

Hey Rev.... try tumbling with container that has a lid on it.... butter tub.... cool whip tub, etc. Slows down the dryout a bit.

[HI-TEK]

Ok, thanks guys. I think I used too little product so it dried up quick. I was afraid it would be too thick. I think I need to mix it in advance, which I didn't do previously -and- I think I need to thin it a little more prior to use. Will try again and report back.

Just some quick suggestions. If you mix the coatings as per Bayou instructions that is OK. If you want to further dilute mixture it is also OK. Adding a little more solvent will slow down drying rate. Just tumble mix until coating stains all projectiles. Do not tumble excessively after coating, as it is not required, and you gain nothing.
DO NOT DRY WHILST TUMBLING, it will look awful, as coating becomes sticky and leaves rough dry finish which will not look good after cooking.
I am unclear which colour you purchased. If it looks Dark Blue when dry and before cooking, you purchased the Dark Green coating. If it is Black before and after cooking, you purchased the black.
The Dark Green coating is Dark Blue before you cook it, and then it turns Green during the cook. The picture you posted was Blue and it appeared that you may have purchased the Dark Green coating. (I was also thinking that the coating in your picture may not have been heat cured) Please advise
Joe

[garym1a2]

I think I under cooked a batch of the Hi-tek lube (black), is it ok to rebake and recoat or should I recoat and than bake. I also seemed to have not coated very thick.
Second question is when the material is diluted should I mix and catalized the material and its catalist first and than add the actetone?

[HI-TEK]

I think I under cooked a batch of the Hi-tek lube (black), is it ok to rebake and recoat or should I recoat and than bake. I also seemed to have not coated very thick.
Second question is when the material is diluted should I mix and catalized the material and its catalist first and than add the actetone?

It is OK to re-bake. It will not damage coating. Try to ensure that you do not overload baking tray/mesh as it will cook unevenly as hot air will not get to all projectiles aevenly without fanforced air circualtion.

Thin coats are also OK. It just looks a little blotchy and uneven.
Each very thin coat should be almost considered a stain. After each coat is cooked, then each subsequent coat will cover more areas so you get better finished appearance.
The finished coat in general is more for cosmetic purposes, and, as long as you have a coating on surfaces so that metal is covered, (even if blotchy), it should work in most applications. Additional thin coats will help with heat reflectivity aspects which are more important with high energy powder use.

It really does not matter if you add solvent or catalyst first. All you have to consider that you need the catalyst to be added, and then you can add solvent as required for dilution to apply coating onto as many projectiles as possible.

When you are satisfied with final coating appearance, after baking, then size the projectiles to suit your barrels.

The trick is to remember, that you do not need a thick coating to do the work. Just enough to separate barrel from Lead, and satisfy your needs

Hope that I have answered your questions.
Joe

[Russel Nash]

I shot 55 grain NOE cast over 2700 with no leading. I was skeptical, but since I have played with it I am a believer!

that's impressive. I saw your post over at Benos about shooting cast boolits out of an AR at a 3 gun match. I was like, "WHAT? How did he make power factor?"

well, now I know.

[bmiller]

It was a local match, there is not a chrono at the match. They are running about 2300 fps out of my 16" rifle. I have a line on some wc844 and I am going to try screwbolts load soon. This has been a lot of fun trying to figure this out. Not there yet !

[Russel Nash]

I read the safety sheet when I bought the product. It did not scare me as bad as you are now. I am not a chemist. When I purchased the product, the sandstrom person said it was used to coat 40 million bullets a year. They did tell me don't breathe the fumes, and use in a well ventilated area. I guess I will bug Donnie again about your product.

Bear with me, as I am flipping a few pages back looking for screwbolt's recipe, when I stumbled on your post ^^^ above.

So how did the Sandstrom liquid work for you and/or how did you apply it?

I might still have my Sandstrom 27A from a few years back.

[Russel Nash]

It was a local match, there is not a chrono at the match. They are running about 2300 fps out of my 16" rifle. I have a line on some wc844 and I am going to try screwbolts load soon. This has been a lot of fun trying to figure this out. Not there yet !

Are you going through Hi-Tech ammo of St. Louis for the wc844?

that's a pull down powder, right?

I am back on page 36 of this thread, reading it backwards.