In another thread in this forum section they are discussing how much alox to use for a set number of boolits (1 tablespoon per 100 boolits IIRC). Has anyone done a similar analysis of the amount of HI-TEK needed for a set number of boolits?
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In another thread in this forum section they are discussing how much alox to use for a set number of boolits (1 tablespoon per 100 boolits IIRC). Has anyone done a similar analysis of the amount of HI-TEK needed for a set number of boolits?
little goes a long way. it depends on the volume of the container and boolit size, etc.
With the Hi-Tek coating, (using dark green version as reference) as an average guide, the coatings should cover about 40,000 projectiles per litre of coating. . Some can coat much more, and will depend on how it is used and finish required. Have a talk with Donnie, at Bayou, to get a better idea of coverage indications with various calibres.Originally Posted by prickett
I mixed up 10ml of base, 2 ml of catalysit and 15 ml of actone for this many. I might hit the 30 cal for a third coat after sizing depending on how it looks. My mold throws them on the big side. Still I think over 3000 bullets is what I end up with, size of the bullets matter as the 9mm is quite small.
Last edited by garym1a2; 03-25-2013 at 07:44 PM. Reason: bad spelling
For fun I put four samples in my thermal chamber and work and set it at -50 Celcuis for 24 hours. Chamber only got to -46 celcuis. Material did not seem to degrade. See pictures of smashed parts.
Next time I run a -40 to +175C thermal cycle test I may put some in that oven to see how it holds up.
When I get some I am going to shoot them at very cold temps. I want to test the skin @ low temp and while shooting. I also want to test them after they have been set outside for a week or two, have gone through a few heat and thaw cycles and then shot. I may have to wait till next year as the temps seem to be getting warmer here.
This is the only time I have wished that it would stay colder for longer.
I just started powder coating bullets yesturday, NOW I see this thread!
Are there any more kits available?
That is awesome.For fun I put four samples in my thermal chamber and work and set it at -50 Celcuis for 24 hours. Chamber only got to -46 celcuis. Material did not seem to degrade. See pictures of smashed parts.
Next time I run a -40 to +175C thermal cycle test I may put some in that oven to see how it holds up.
I am amazed that such freezing and thawing seemed not to affect the coating.
Just a quick observation, if you had the Dark Green coating, and, ended up with it a Golden colour, then you may have cooked it at much too high temperatures, or mat be too long or both, and that is why the colour mat have changed somewhat to golden shade.
Yet, the coating seems fine with your freeze cycle and smash tests.
Some of the things we have learned, with the coatings, is that because of it being cooked at 190C or so, any further heating after cure may toughen the coating more, and, that is why it may have been used in high energy applications successfully.
As we do not have actual results, we have relied on the story told of the tests.
The real value for me is making lots of 9mm and 40cal for USPSA shooting. casting them for myself and two brothers is a lot of bullets and this material seems to be a great labor savings. In the next few weeks I will get a few hundred 9mm made and shoot them into my dirt hill and see how they hold up.
My color is more a dark green to black, the gold came off the lighting and the flash.
Plus these 45 slugs I think had too much material, the 9's look better.
It needs to be remembered, that a very thin layer of coat is all that is required. A single coat, if covering majority of alloy, looks bad, as it looks uneven and blotchy.
It is possbile, that you still are applying too much coating at one time, and that will cause a dark green to black colour if you put on two coats.
Aside from looking more pretty, it seems that thick coats is a waste, and is really not required to building up thick coats on alloy. After applying two very thin coats, dryin and baking between coats, this should cover majority of alloy suitable for firing.
During the deformation of the alloy and sealing, the deformation will push the coating against barrel wall, and alloy will slide along the coating . The coating only has to last intact, and separate metals untill it leaves the barrel.
That can be achieved with applications of diluted catalysed coatings.
You then get more coated projectiles for your buck and it should still work OK.
If you cook coatings at high temperatures for long time, it seems to bleach out some of the colours as some colours are unstable with a lot of heat. Coating will become harder and more slippery but do not over cook.
BUT, and it is a big BUT, do not over cook, as it is not good as coating becomes extremely hard and will fracture when deformed during firing.
Have a look at Bayou coloured alloys and try to get similar colours after cooking and with two thin coats baked.
CJ,
Currently sold out, have lots more on order.
Joe,
You seem to be the one that might have the most clients as you are the one that invented this process. Do you or can you get testimonials from some of the competition shooters a way down there. Would be nice to see what they have to say about the amount of rounds they have fired and their experiences with the product. Just thinking from a sales point it would be nice to have.
Tayler
They call it "common sense". Why is it so uncommon?
Hi Tayler,
Thanks for suggestion.
It is a good one. I would like to get feed back testimonials from shooters here. However, I am one step back from direct contact with them, as bulk users of my coatings are mainly manufacturers who supply finished products to shooters.
I have many small hobbyists who use the coating, and I may start to canvas some for their comments.
Also, I can ask manufacturers to obtain comments also from their customers, and see what happens after that.
After receiving feedback, I do not know where it would be best to post/advertise such information.
I will have a go.
joe
Thanks for the comments. One more question, when sizing the bullets should I go closer to the size of the jacket bullets or how we do we cast bullets and normal lube grooves?
With 9mm and jacket bullets you typically are .355 or .356, with cast bullets we typically run .357 or .358.
I hope that I have understood your questions correctly and my answers are as follows.
Generally, when casting, the cast diameter size, is always slightly over sized.
Then it is coated to suit, and then sized to diameter required for the gun.
The coating conforms and allows sizing to chosen diameter.
Lube grooves or no lube grooves have no effect at all with sizing process.
Here, many are now producing cast alloy with no lube grooves, as it is claimed that it performs much better and appears more accurate.
With Jacketed ammo, the alloy is simply held inside the Copper foil which is wrapped around the lead.
The Lead, being encased, slides with the copper as the surface which is in contact with barrel. Copper used has minimal lubricating properties, and is reason why many find problems with Copper fouling barrels, and then which is very difficult to clean out.
Most cleaners to clean/solubilise Copper deposits, are (Ammonia/Amine type based cleaners, and will cause damage to barrels by corrosion/erosion electrolysis)
Many here use the coatings to coat Jacketed ammo to stop the Copper fouling.
I don't how many times we Australian users have to say it, we have been using this product for 10 yrs & more, well I have anyway, its been that long now that I've forgotten when I last used a bought lubed boolit.
I am primarily a hand gun shooter & have had little experience with rifle loads, but have many friends that do.
I have not personally coated any of my cast boolits with Hi-Tek's hard lube, firstly because we cant buy the coatings in small quantity's for home use, Hi-Tek unfortunately only sells his product in bulk 20 lt lots & also its hard to compete with the local boolit suppliers using his product on price.
Have put many tens of thousands of these projectiles down my barrels & leading just no longer happens.
Lubed cast boolits are no longer sold down here & haven't been for years.
Last edited by Wal'; 03-28-2013 at 12:51 AM.
"Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so too."
yea that's the stuff....I am planning on selling these! I would like to have as much literature / testimonials as possible from the guys that have been doing this for a long long time. The folks here are not backwards but rely on word of mouth more than mouth of word. Since this is an alien looking bullet they wont just take my word for it.
TES
Last edited by TES; 03-28-2013 at 08:40 PM.
They call it "common sense". Why is it so uncommon?
Hi,
I currently seel to 4 US companies.
I do not know your location to Bayou Bullets near New Orleans.
They have been using the coatings for some time. Have a look at their website.
You may also be able to come to an agreement with Bayou about reselling coatings in your area. I am sure Donnie would be receptive to your contact about that subject.
Also, look up Top Score International, Hawkesbury River company, Vindicator (Qlnd), Spartan Projectiles. These are some that have used and manufactured with our coatings for many years.
As I tried to explain, I am one step removed, from direct contact with coated projectile users. Any feed back normally would be to supplier of the coated projectiles & not to me. I do not generally sell to end users due to the coating, supplied even in small quantities, being able to cover so many projectiles, that coating can cover much more projectiles that most home users here would shoot in many years.
You say, that projectiles look alien, but it seems to be forgotten, that for 20 years or so, many in Australia, have been using such coatings very successfully.
It has taken you guys that long to discover the coatings, so I am not surprised that it is regarded as being alien.
I get a hundred such similar question from the US and elsewhere from around the world such as yours, and some seem to be focusing on the doubtful aspects, the non believers, and sceptics requiring proof, and, even asking for the formulation to allegedly guage or try to determine if the coating will work as described.
With majority of enquiries, it is a serious enquiry about commercial supply.
What I can confirm that since Bayou has started to use our coatings, he has expanded his production 200-300%, and still cannot keep up with demand. That sort of expansion of output is not possible, if the stuff was no good and word got around about non performance. Also, Bayou is repacking and selling home kits for hobbyists as well as to commercial manufacturers, and is all advertised on their web site.
With your requests for literature, and data, I will not try to post here the many types of information on the coatings. It would occupy several pages on the blog.
It is better if you provide your email address, and I can send you what I have that may be useful..
Joe
I have been doing a lot of research on the production process of ammo and bullets and have determined that this would be the best road to go down based on its cost and ease of application. I don't doubt its claims as I am aware of the history of your product in Australia. The reason I was curious about testimonials is that virtually no one here in the states has seen or heard of it. I have spoken to Donnie and he was nice enough to send me some detailed info. From what I have seen to date this is what I will be using. I guess that the only reason that I asked for testimonials was for promotional info for shows and sales.
They call it "common sense". Why is it so uncommon?
Hi,
Thanks for reply and interest.
If set up correctly for volume production purposes, the manufacturing costs are fairly low and resonably profitable. Coated projectiles certainly campare well in costs with all other lubed systems, but that is where any comparisons stops.
Aussie guys dont really get into testimonials as such, and it is like pulling teeth, you simply do not get feed back on good performance. If something is not right, then you get complaints by the truck load as word gets around fast.
Fortunately we have had few complaints over the years, and if any, it related to incorrect use of products.
In terms of US users not being aware of the coatings, is not news to me.
When the USD/AUSD favoured the export market from Australia, coated projectiles by the tonnes was sold into the US. Now, it is much too costly to export. Also, at that time, no one advertised what coating was used, and certainly not where it came from, as they all wanted to protect their market.
Shooters visiting Australia in competitions, also had taken back coated projectiles from various manufacturers, but they also did not know any thing about the coatings or origin..
That all changed, as there was a ouple of scam artists here that tried to copy my coatings, and exported some product to US where it was a dismal failure.
They used the same copies here and lost all confidence with shooters, and had damaged coating perception with shooters to a great extent, until we began to insist that all manufacturers supply data and source on all our coatings, and educate buyers/shooters as to what to look for and compare products in shop, before buying finished products.
I also had several scam artists trying to get information about the coatings by posing various questions, which had nothing to do with coating projectiles and process.
I have had customers here order/purchase small quantities of non-coloured coating as well, allegedly to top coat other coloured coatings.
(I did not come down in the last shower, I knew that such request may be for other purposes than implied, as coating with a clear top coat, provides no benefit at all only extra production costs)
A few already tried to get or source commercial coatings to compete. All failed.
What is generally not known, is that we make the resin in house. No commercial product is available to buy, so users can make projectile coatings.
No one will make the small quantities of resin required for this type of business.
As far as I am aware, no one commercially has any knowlege about what is required to be made, to produce suitable product.
Until we get someone to come up with appropriate number of Zeros after a number/s, that sort of information will be kept in house.
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