lead bullets coated with polymer paint

[HI-TEK]

Please find attached below, some details
The alloy needs to deform so it seals the barrel to gain maximum pressure to get velocity.
The coating must stay on alloy and assist with metal separation without coming off Lead/alloy.
Captured projectiles, show no damage from heat on rear end of alloy. That is especially useful with high energy loads as the Lead is prevented by the coating to be damaged by the heat produced by high energy powders.


I thought, that this would be useful for you to know about the properties of our coatings. These are two of the Hi-Tek-Lube Supercoats used to coat projectiles.
Left to right, Old Bronze, (new Colour) and Dark Green.
These projectiles are coated and baked with two very thin coats.
The above tests, are typical test results obtained with the coatings, when the coated projectiles are subjected to extreme deformation.
Note that flattened projectiles, one side is rough where it lay on the concrete when flattening, and coating, despite being severely damaged stayed put on surfaces.
Surfaces, that are smooth directly alongside, is where 8 pound hammer hit surfaces, which are flat and smooth.
No fracturing can be seen on damaged surfaces.
Sizing projectiles to correct diameter after coating, allows exact finished diameters to be produced, and no lubricants are required to size or to shoot with majority of applications.
Due to the extreme beneficial properties of the coatings, it stays put on alloy, even with use in most hostile applications to prevent Lead becoming in contact with Barrel.

There are many attempts to reproduce such results, and I have seen many, with just as many concoctions trying to invent the ideal coating/lubricant.

[HI-TEK]

Hi,
I have had many reports of people successfully using the coatings on recycled Lead with unknown compositions.
From what has been learnt over many years, that due to the hydraulic deformation being required to seal barrels, with all previous lubes, it was almost impossible to prevent Lead becoming in contact with Barrel. The softer the Lead, it appears, the more Leading inside the gun.
Using these coatings, and with the coating allowing deformations, and separating metal surfaces, many have successfully used waste Lead and mixtures.
What is not known, is the effects the coating provides on soft alloys, with high energy powders where the projectiles are being shot at high speeds. I know the coating stays put on Lead.
All tets results for high speeds, we have seen over the years, all used 92:6:2 alloys .
Although we have been advised using the coating successfully with other alloys, Lead, we do not have specific results.
It would be of interest to all if we did get together all such information, and, I am going to ask all my customers to supply me details they have.

[Jailer]

I would be very interested in some higher speed rifle tests that have been done

[xacex]

Well, I would like to try this miracle lube on some of my rifle rounds, and some of the hollow-points, but I am not going to plunk down 100$ just to see if it will work for my application. Any possibility of a small sample pack for trying it out before I go whole hog? Right now I have 3 boolits that I would like to try with it, and another one "311410" that should be out by next month. I for one would like to see if I can get better velocity out of the Mihec 22 NATO without boolit fragmentation"will it hold it together", if it will work at slow velocity with a hollow-point and still have expansion "Mihec 45acp", and also faster expansion "Mihec 359-125" with a +P+ load.

[HI-TEK]

Well, I would like to try this miracle lube on some of my rifle rounds, and some of the hollow-points, but I am not going to plunk down 100$ just to see if it will work for my application. Any possibility of a small sample pack for trying it out before I go whole hog? Right now I have 3 boolits that I would like to try with it, and another one "311410" that should be out by next month. I for one would like to see if I can get better velocity out of the Mihec 22 NATO without boolit fragmentation"will it hold it together", if it will work at slow velocity with a hollow-point and still have expansion "Mihec 45acp", and also faster expansion "Mihec 359-125" with a +P+ load.

Hi, As our coatings is already in US, you can possibly get some from a Company Called Bayou Bullet, contact is Donnie Miculek, email, bayoubullets@yahoo.com , Cell Phone 225 324 4501
333 N. Airline Ave. (physical shop address)
315 Tania St. (mailing address)
Gramercy, Louisiana 70052

Donnie can provide you details on what you require with applications.

I would wellcome your feedback after contact with Donnie.
Joe

[HI-TEK]

Hi,
Most recent reported use in rifles was by a local manufacturer in South Australia.
Test fired with two different rifles.
1. 308 rifle, with a 309 diameter Dark Green coated projectile, using 22 grains of 2206H powder, weight was 165 grain, Round nosed Flat point, this travelled at 2200ft/sec using a Chronograph.
2. 310 Cadet rifle, with a 125 grain round nosed Lead alloy coated with Dark Green coating, 316 diameter, with 8 grains of 2206H Powder, and tested with Chronograph at 1750ft/sec.

Neither of the ammo used any heat shields, and ballistic gel recovered projectile was examined, and the projectile was whole, and rear of alloy was not damaged.
Barrels were clean aside from powder residues.

[HI-TEK]

I would be very interested in some higher speed rifle tests that have been done

Hi,
Most recent reported use in rifles was by a local manufacturer in South Australia.
Test fired with two different rifles.
1. 308 rifle, with a 309 diameter Dark Green coated projectile, using 22 grains of 2206H powder, weight was 165 grain, Round nosed Flat point, this travelled at 2200ft/sec using a Chronograph.
2. 310 Cadet rifle, with a 125 grain round nosed Lead alloy coated with Dark Green coating, 316 diameter, with 8 grains of 2206H Powder, and tested with Chronograph at 1750ft/sec.

Neither of the ammo used any heat shields, and ballistic gel recovered projectile was examined, and the projectile was whole, and rear of alloy was not damaged.
Barrels were clean aside from powder residues.

[bmiller]

I talked to Donnie, he was running short of product. He said has a delivery mid February, and would possibly sell some after that. A lot of people in my area have started using his bullets and are pleased. It looks like on his site, he is over run like everyone else.

[HDS]

I see plenty of .308 tests online as well, strange that nobody has made the leap to 223, if it works then it seems like it'd be something of great use to 3gun and IPSC shooters who want lots of cheap ammo for their ARs.

I've emailed Ares and asked if their coating could work with a 223 bullet by the way, if I get an answer I will post the gist of it here.

[bmiller]

Three gun shooting is why I am interested in this!

[xacex]

If there was no deformation without a gas check on a .309 at 2200fps this stuff is acting like a polymer and holding the projectile shape somewhat. In a .223 with a has check it may be just enough to keep them from grenading from the RPM. But, this may have a detrimental affect on hollow-point expansion. I need to get my hands on some and try it out to see how it will work on both of these types of boolits.

[HDS]

Based on a quick calculation, the minimum speed you'd need to get the Mihec 65gr bullet to is 2400fps in order to make minor for rifle. I am not sure if that's a requirement for 3Gun or not.

But anyway ~2400fps has been reached on this forum out of a 1:9 rifled gun without coating and with a gas check of course. So I think the bullet design is up to it, if barely. Maybe a gas check will still be needed but maybe it'll allow higher velocities without much trouble.

[HI-TEK]

If there was no deformation without a gas check on a .309 at 2200fps this stuff is acting like a polymer and holding the projectile shape somewhat. In a .223 with a has check it may be just enough to keep them from grenading from the RPM. But, this may have a detrimental affect on hollow-point expansion. I need to get my hands on some and try it out to see how it will work on both of these types of boolits.

The coatings completely covers the projectile to protect the alloy.
This is the same if used for Copper plated or Jacketed projectiles.
Because of heat reflecting property of the coating, the end of the alloy is not damaged by hot high energy powders.
The alloy expands due to hydraulic pressue and inertia, and, because the coating does not compress and allows alloy to hydraulically conform to surfaces. Because of the way the coating stays put after sever deformation, there is minimal possibility of alloy becomeing damaged during firing process. it has been found that it simply works.
It is suggested, that you also ask people like Bayou who have experience with end use and results, as well as being able to supply coating materials for your tests.

[HI-TEK]

Based on a quick calculation, the minimum speed you'd need to get the Mihec 65gr bullet to is 2400fps in order to make minor for rifle. I am not sure if that's a requirement for 3Gun or not.

But anyway ~2400fps has been reached on this forum out of a 1:9 rifled gun without coating and with a gas check of course. So I think the bullet design is up to it, if barely. Maybe a gas check will still be needed but maybe it'll allow higher velocities without much trouble.

Using a coated projectiles, due to its heat reflecting properties, there seems very little damage to projectiles with using them at speeds.
Further, the coating also self adjusts to extra heat to further harden the instant heat is applied, making it more heat reflective.
As it is designed to be a dry film lubricating coating, there are many advantages by using such system, as by the time any heat effects would be take place, the projectile is gone.

[HDS]

This coating of yours, is it a solid barrier between the lead and the barrel like a powder coating process would achieve? Interesting to know if the coating makes them safer to handle with regards to lead contamination of ones hands when handling bullets treated with this.

Do you have any european dealers btw?

[leadman]

I spoke with Donnie at Bayou Bullets and he will contact me when his supply comes in. I am going to try it and will report my findings. I have powder coated boolits and they shoot very well but having to keep the boolits in a certain orientation is a problem sometimes.
With the HT coating one is able to just dump them out onto a screen to let them dry so this is a plus.

I have good loads with wax type lubed boolits with gas checks in the 22K Hornet and the 30-06 to try with this coating. I have hit 3,000 fps with the 22K Hornet but accuracy falls off after 2,700 fps. I have shot moa groups with the 30-06 at 2,500 fps with a 200gr boolit.

[HI-TEK]

This coating of yours, is it a solid barrier between the lead and the barrel like a powder coating process would achieve? Interesting to know if the coating makes them safer to handle with regards to lead contamination of ones hands when handling bullets treated with this.

Do you have any european dealers btw?

Hi,
The coating process, covers the alloy completely with a multi layer film that is solid fused film.
Environmental tests done on lead emission when shooting the coated projectiles, provided similar Lead emissions as Copper plated Alloy, and, Lead emissions were well below accepted emission levels in US and Australian health standards.

Powder coating type paints, (depending on type used) generally have high solids loading content with open pore spaces. The solids helps keep apart metals during firing, but I dont know if powder coating is heat stable. The HI-TEK-LUBE coatings actually harden and with excess heat
Because the coating is baked onto the alloy, and strongly bonds, as a complete film. After multiple coats, there is very little or no contact between user and coated alloy.
It would stand to reason, that this should reduce Lead contamination.
Local manufacturers, who have been using the coatings for 15 years plus, have not reported any lead increases in people manufacturing/using coated projectiles.
In automated ammunition loading systems, using coated projectiles leaves no lead deposits on surfaces that hadle thousands of projectiles per day.

We do not currently supply into Europe. We have had many enquiries, but no one has taken the next step.
Shipping coating as an LCL cargo a 1 cubic metre space is allocated. For this one cubic metre space the charges are about AUS$750 for shipping from Australia to European Wharf.
One cubic metre takes about a total of 620 litres of products.
If you only ship 20 litres in that one cubic metre of allocated space, it still costs the same price.
For any one wanting to be an agent, it would be useful to do a market research to find customers first, then, take orders with deposits, before ordering coatings.
The more coating is shipped in the allocated cubic metre, the lower the costs per litre for shipping.

[HI-TEK]

I spoke with Donnie at Bayou Bullets and he will contact me when his supply comes in. I am going to try it and will report my findings. I have powder coated boolits and they shoot very well but having to keep the boolits in a certain orientation is a problem sometimes.
With the HT coating one is able to just dump them out onto a screen to let them dry so this is a plus.

I have good loads with wax type lubed boolits with gas checks in the 22K Hornet and the 30-06 to try with this coating. I have hit 3,000 fps with the 22K Hornet but accuracy falls off after 2,700 fps. I have shot moa groups with the 30-06 at 2,500 fps with a 200gr boolit.

Thanks for quick reply.
Shipment should arrive to Donnie within next couple of days .
Powder coating may work to an extent, however, it is almost impossible to totally cover the alloy due to electrical conductivity requirements for coating.
Where the Powder coating seems to lack required needs is
1. Cannot cover base of projectiles and this important requirement, as majority of damage to alloy is due to exposure to powder heat damaging/atomising lead alloy on the rear of projectile,
2. Coating thickness is uneven,
3. Only small volumes can be coated, and very delicate possibly costsly operation to coat only a few.
4. Coatings generally are not heat stable, (may soften with high energy powders)
5. Depending on Powder coating used, the film may be abrasive to barrels, as filler minerals are included to make paint, and not to lubricate .
6. High volume of wastage,
7. Surfaces coated become useless for further coating applications as surfaces become non conductive, and requiring removal of baked coating before re-use.

Your accuracy falling off at speeds, it may be due to your alloy, fragmentation and or due to inadequate heat protection of rear of projectile which causes melting/atomisation of alloy.
With increased speeds, the hydraulic deformation of alloy may also be at maximum and, the powder coating may not be adequate for such heat and deformation, especially of coating is uneven in thickness around the alloy.
There are also other variables that are possible why your accuracy falls off at speeds, but needs further invetigations to determine cause.
Capturing projectiles in Ballistic gel would provide some answers.

[prickett]

HI-TEK,
How soon after coating boolits with your treatment do they have to be baked? Could I tumble several thousand boolits, then let them sit unbaked for a month?

I'm trying to figure out an efficient work flow.

TIA

[HI-TEK]

HI-TEK,
How soon after coating boolits with your treatment do they have to be baked? Could I tumble several thousand boolits, then let them sit unbaked for a month?

I'm trying to figure out an efficient work flow.

TIA

Hi, The coating needs to dry, to release solvent from resin system.
It is flammable and needs to be removed before heating it in a electric or gas fired oven, where fire or an explosionmay occur if solvents are present as vapour.
We use a very fast drying solvent, and, drying rate can be improved with a simple fan directed over coated projectiles.
If you look at the U-Tube video, on do it yourself coating, it shows you that within 10-15 minutes,
at 25-30C the thin film is dry enough to bake.
Commercial users, cast several hundred thousand projectiles, then coat them, allow overnight to dry, and bake next day via wire meshed belt through fan forced Pizza type ovens.
As retention time is about 8-9 minutes and continuous, you can bake many thousand projectiles per day.
I have never heard any one having to sit coated projectiles unbaked for one month, as they cannot keep up with demand, and stocking such amounts only ties up cash flow.
After coating Drying, they want to sell as soon as possible and not store products.
Also, as the coating even though it is dry, it does not adhere fully and permanently to alloy until baking is carried out. Baking is the key, to a very successful fusion adhesion of coating to alloy.

I am wondering, why you would consider storing coated and unbaked projectiles for a month?
Joe