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Thread: lead bullets coated with polymer paint

  1. #581
    Boolit Buddy
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    Hi-Tek

    KYcaster,
    I will have another batch of Joe's Hy-Tech arriving in several weeks.
    We were unable to quote final prices due to actual shipping costs that will be involved in getting the product to us and then to you, plus any costs involved in repackaging into smaller quantities.
    Nick and I are in the final stages of getting this done and we'll have an announcement soon.
    I assure you and any others interested that the coating works as advertised and it will be worth the wait.
    Thanks
    Donnie
    225 324 4501
    bayoubullets@yahoo.com

  2. #582
    Boolit Master
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    Good news, awaiting final prices.

  3. #583
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    Oooooh! Pretty! I wonder if they can paint little M&M's or Skittles symbols on them. . ."Taste the Rainbow, scumbag!"

    It seems like a valid concept for a few reasons:

    The two big sources of airborne lead on an indoor range are lead compounds in the primers, and hot gasses vaporizing metal off the base of the bullet. The big ammo makers are cranking out training ammo with lead free primers (not quite as reliable and have different ignition characteristics, but clean), and bullets that are either fully copper clad (Speer), or wrap the jacket from back to front thus enclosing the base and leaving the exposed lead at the nose (Winchester). I see no reason why specialized plastics couldn't do this job as well or better.

    A training bullet doesn't need to go through anything besides paper, soda cans, milk jugs, etc... Since the price of copper has gotten to the point where it's worth a crook's time to steal wire out of abandoned houses, it makes sense to try to eliminate jackets from applications that don't specifically need them - like "condor friendly" or controlled expansion slugs. One of the reasons a lot of us got into casting is the rising cost of ammo. I theory, anyway, this stuff could knock the price of factory ammo down to something reasonable, give the environmental weenies a reason to squawk less (I'm not so optimistic as to believe they will stop), and deal with leading issues associated with mass-market loads that aren't tuned to a specific gun.
    WWJMBD?

    In the Land of Oz, we cast with wheel weight and 2% Tin, Man.

  4. #584
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elkins45 View Post


    That's ridiculously cool!
    YIKES!!!

    That orange/nickel combo looks EXACTLY like the ST Action inert training rounds we use at work for manipulation drills. Now I have another reason to be a paranoid instructor.
    WWJMBD?

    In the Land of Oz, we cast with wheel weight and 2% Tin, Man.

  5. #585
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYCaster View Post
    I've contacted both the companies you mention and neither will quote a price nor provide a projected shipping date for ANY quantity.

    Any other suggestions?

    Jerry
    Hi Jerry,
    That is surprising. I know that they are waiting for arrival for a new shipment of coating. It should be there soon. They are also trying to cope with an ever increasing lot of orders and it appears that they at present cannot keep up with demand.
    There is a move by them to supply coatings to US buyers, by either or both companies, but I am thinking that they may be currently conserving their stocks until new shipment arrives.
    What did they advise you when you enquired?
    Are you a manufacturer or home hobbyist?
    I suppose that your volumes required may have affected the response at this stage.
    Please advise

  6. #586
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausglock View Post
    The blue HRBC pills had the coating coming off on your fingers while loading. the black coating came off in the barrel and leaded like buggery.
    The red ICBM's were ok for coating, but their sizing was all over the place. John connors brown pills are working great. I fired 200 today in an IPSC match and the barrel was nice and clean this arvo when I cleaned the gun. I too would be keen to try coating my own cast pills. Maybe Wal and I can share a buy?
    Hi,
    Thanks for reply and feed back. I am surprised ath the problems you are having with the Black coating. Did you contact them to lodge a complaint?
    I have heard, that others had similar problems, and investigations revealed that the coating was not baked at correct conditions to fully bond and cure the coating.
    I can only comment and relate on the Black and Red Copper colours. The Blue coating is not something I wish to discuss.
    Connors stuff is very similar to the HRBC Red, but John uses a Bronzed Red version, which when cooked, does turn a brown bronze type colour.
    These coatings, require correct heating, and cure time to get optimum results.
    Once it is done correctly, the coatings should not come off at all, even if you hammer the projectiles.
    Were these sized to diameter you required?
    During sizing, if coatings are not done correctly, it will shred off, and is probably why you had the stuff come off on your hands.
    Was there black dust in packaging?

  7. #587
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigslug View Post
    Oooooh! Pretty! I wonder if they can paint little M&M's or Skittles symbols on them. . ."Taste the Rainbow, scumbag!"

    It seems like a valid concept for a few reasons:

    The two big sources of airborne lead on an indoor range are lead compounds in the primers, and hot gasses vaporizing metal off the base of the bullet. The big ammo makers are cranking out training ammo with lead free primers (not quite as reliable and have different ignition characteristics, but clean), and bullets that are either fully copper clad (Speer), or wrap the jacket from back to front thus enclosing the base and leaving the exposed lead at the nose (Winchester). I see no reason why specialized plastics couldn't do this job as well or better.

    A training bullet doesn't need to go through anything besides paper, soda cans, milk jugs, etc... Since the price of copper has gotten to the point where it's worth a crook's time to steal wire out of abandoned houses, it makes sense to try to eliminate jackets from applications that don't specifically need them - like "condor friendly" or controlled expansion slugs. One of the reasons a lot of us got into casting is the rising cost of ammo. I theory, anyway, this stuff could knock the price of factory ammo down to something reasonable, give the environmental weenies a reason to squawk less (I'm not so optimistic as to believe they will stop), and deal with leading issues associated with mass-market loads that aren't tuned to a specific gun.
    The HI-TEK-LUBE coatings virtually replace the Jacketed and Copper Plated prodgies. They are use in virtually all disciplines, and hunting. This provides a low cost ammo that works in majority of guns from 600ft/sec to 3000ft/sec.
    I can see, that Jacketed or plated ammo, will be on the decline for use by consumers as Hard cast stuff coated by the HI-TEK-LUBe coatings, works where only Jacketed/plated stuff was the only thing that was suitable previously.
    As for Lead emissions, the gold version was tested, by NATA certified independendent certifyers for atomised Lead values, and it was found, that the coating produced same Lead atomisations to Plated/Jacketed ammo.
    These coatings do not contain any PTFE or materials that will cause fumes to be generated by heat.
    They certainly should not leave any residues inside barrels.
    Also, because the coatings have ability to reflect heat away from base of prodgies, and are not greatly affected with high energy charges, the alloy is not damaged and there is a significant reduction in burning Lead and smoke.

  8. #588
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    Quote Originally Posted by HI-TEK View Post
    Hi,
    Thanks for reply and feed back. I am surprised ath the problems you are having with the Black coating. Did you contact them to lodge a complaint?
    I have heard, that others had similar problems, and investigations revealed that the coating was not baked at correct conditions to fully bond and cure the coating.
    I can only comment and relate on the Black and Red Copper colours. The Blue coating is not something I wish to discuss.
    Connors stuff is very similar to the HRBC Red, but John uses a Bronzed Red version, which when cooked, does turn a brown bronze type colour.
    These coatings, require correct heating, and cure time to get optimum results.
    Once it is done correctly, the coatings should not come off at all, even if you hammer the projectiles.
    Were these sized to diameter you required?
    During sizing, if coatings are not done correctly, it will shred off, and is probably why you had the stuff come off on your hands.
    Was there black dust in packaging?
    I loaded some 357 this morning,the boolit seater took the black coating straight off,Can I buy some coating and do my own boolits?. Pat

  9. #589
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAT303 View Post
    I loaded some 357 this morning,the boolit seater took the black coating straight off,Can I buy some coating and do my own boolits?. Pat
    Hi Pat,
    Can I suggest, that you take a handful of the pills, and bake them at 200C for about 5-10 minutes on a piece of Aluminium Foil. Re Do the test, and advise results.
    I have no problems with supply.
    You need to realise, that the coating is packed in minimum of 5 litre packs. It also requires one litre of catalyst to usewith the 5 litres of coatings.
    One litre will cover in the range of 35,000-45,000 pills, depending on which colour and finish you require. On average, 5 litres will cover about 170,000 to 200,000 pills.
    You need equipment to tumble coat, additional solvent for dilution, (about 5-8 litres of Acetone), Drying trays or mesh to frist dry pills, and when completely dry, pills are oven baked at 200C, for about 10 minutes. Oven needs to be modified for very good and even heated air circulation.
    Coating process is easy if you are set up correctly. It is reproducibility, and even coating tecniques that need to be refined, so you get very even and reproducible results, over and over ,with each production.
    Also, you are handling very flammable liquids and solvent. so all care must be taken to ensure that you do not cause any fires.
    (No drying of wet coatings in ovens, No Sparks, no smoking in area, no electrical sparks like switches or power points.)
    If you are comfortable with all that, there are no problems.
    Just email me with a private message, if you wish to go ahead.

  10. #590
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance Four Fingers of Death's Avatar
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    I'd be changing suppliers Pat, I've been using these coated bullets for 20 years or so and never had a prob. Sounds like they were a bit skimpy or didn't bother with the proper application techniques.
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  11. #591
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    Can you give the particulars of coated bullets at 3000 fps?

    It has been mentioned several times that your coating is good to 3000 fps. I am assuming on jacketed bullets? How fast have you pushed a hard cast bullet? I would love to buy some of your product to experiment with!

    Thanks

  12. #592
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    Quote Originally Posted by Four Fingers of Death View Post
    I'd be changing suppliers Pat, I've been using these coated bullets for 20 years or so and never had a prob. Sounds like they were a bit skimpy or didn't bother with the proper application techniques.
    I'm in Newman WA Rick so getting anything can be difficult,I'd like to get westcastings but they never answers the phone or return emails.How do I get in contact with Lone Colt boolits?. Pat

  13. #593
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmiller View Post
    It has been mentioned several times that your coating is good to 3000 fps. I am assuming on jacketed bullets? How fast have you pushed a hard cast bullet? I would love to buy some of your product to experiment with!

    Thanks
    Hi,
    Where are you located? It will help with steering you in the right direction.
    I am aware that hard cast projectiles (non jacketed) have been shot at 3000ft/sec. I was not supplied much more information as my customer would not supply any more data.
    Lately, the were two separate trials with rifles, using Hard cast projectiles, (alloy 92:6:2) and they were shot at 1700-1800 ft/sec. No Leading, no residues in barrel. Accuracy was fine.
    The coatings can be also used to coat Copper plated/Jacketed pills, as it separates metals to reduce or eliminate metal to metal contact which causes most deposited residues.
    The "metallic" type coatings, provides best heat reflecting and metal separating properties, which also protects the alloy from heat damage with high energy loads.
    Reports of our non metallic type coatings have also been used very successfully with rifle applications.

  14. #594
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    I am located in Pennsylvania,USA. Are you sending the metallic based coating to the USA?

    Thanks
    Last edited by bmiller; 09-16-2012 at 07:42 PM.

  15. #595
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAT303 View Post
    I'm in Newman WA Rick so getting anything can be difficult,I'd like to get westcastings but they never answers the phone or return emails.How do I get in contact with Lone Colt boolits?. Pat
    If you send me your details in a private message, I will put you in contact with suitable persons for things you require. Send me your email address as it would be fastest way of communicating

  16. #596
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmiller View Post
    I am located in Pennsylvania,USA. Are you sending the metallic based coating to the USA?

    Thanks
    Hi,
    We do not supply the "metallics to US as yet. I believe that Ferrara Leather and Bayou Bullet company are putting together a combined order for coatings. I believe that they will place orders for metallic coatings as well.
    It may be beneficial to contact them to put your needs in with next order and that way you also save on costs by shipping and clearing.
    These US companies now have some stocks of non metallic coating, and expecting arrival of new shipment shortly. They may be able to supply you with smaller amounts repacked for your trials. They may also provide you with testing results conducted in US on current coating they use.
    Please advise on things after contacting them.

  17. #597
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAT303 View Post
    I'm in Newman WA Rick so getting anything can be difficult,I'd like to get westcastings but they never answers the phone or return emails.How do I get in contact with Lone Colt boolits?. Pat
    G'day, Pat.
    You would nearly be better off getting Vindicators out of Darwin. They do really good deal on shipping and their pills are great.
    Hooroo.
    Regards, Trevor.
    Australia

  18. #598
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausglock View Post
    G'day, Pat.
    You would nearly be better off getting Vindicators out of Darwin. They do really good deal on shipping and their pills are great.
    I believe that Vindicator has relocated to Queensland. There remains a retail outlet in Darwin, but manufacturing is now relocated.
    They also have a good product. They sell a Gold coated pill.
    Depending on your location, Queensland or Darwin to Perth area is a long way, and cost of freight could be prohibitive.
    Aside from Wescast there is another major manufacturer in WA and costs would be minimal for freight as they are already there.
    Joe

  19. #599
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    Donnie posted we are waiting on our next shipment. Obviously we ask a couple of questions before giving pricing information. A 1 liter home user kit is going to be priced differently than someone buying commercial quantities. Also, we don't know our final cost until we get the product in our hands and pay customs, the US shipper and the customs broker.

  20. #600
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausglock View Post
    G'day, Pat.
    You would nearly be better off getting Vindicators out of Darwin. They do really good deal on shipping and their pills are great.
    I forgot to advise, the WA manufacturers name in my previous message.
    The company is Xring Ammo, web site is xringammo.com.
    Have a look and see what they offer.
    Joe

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check