lead bullets coated with polymer paint

[kcinnick]

I guess I missed Joe's posts.

I will say a few things.

1. The coating is amazing. I don't know how it works but in the application it does things I didn't think were physically possible.
2. The coating process takes some work. It would be much easier for me to throw fresh cast bullets in a lubrisizer, pack them up and ship them out.
3. When coated properly, there is no leading or coating build up.
4. I wasn't satisfied with the hammer trick, so I a bullet in a vice, the coating was still intact when I clamped the vice all the way shut. I should have took a picture, but I threw the bullet back in the lead pot. But to tell you the truth, nothing beats a recovered bullet, I have plans to shoot on some private property where recovery will be possible.
5. It takes a long time to get coating, attempts are being made to get ahead of the curve of demand as far as supply goes. Big boats are slow, it can't go through the air. We can't make it get here any faster, orders are being made before the previous order arrives.
6. Coated bullets have been sent to World class shooters, we have plenty of Grand Masters in Louisiana, with positive feedback in Limited and Open guns, and a certain someone that can shoot as fast as a machine gun from Louisiana.

I know this is not the place to market a finished bullet, lets face it, this is a place for DIYers. If I ever get caught up I am going to do some experiments with less expensive ovens and see if I can find a way for a home caster to use the coating. The biggest issue is the fee for shipping a hazardous item and getting the bullet to the correct temperature for the right amount of time. I have done business with plenty of sponsors on the board and learned a lot from contributors and if a DIY way is possible I want to bring it to market for the community, when, something I don't know.

[fgmachine]

So do you guys think the Wiederlader guy on youtube is using a product or combination of products that was previously mentioned in this thread? I was also wanted to know if using some of these products over a long period of time will damage the barrel of the firearm they are used in? Any ideas on that?

[wallenba]

I thought it was a way to get around the ban on cast alloy and lead bullets at indoor ranges over there. I've seen them on a few web sites. Might be something we will have to look at in the future, as cast is banned in most indoor ranges around here.

[Hang Fire]

So do you guys think the Wiederlader guy on youtube is using a product or combination of products that was previously mentioned in this thread? I was also wanted to know if using some of these products over a long period of time will damage the barrel of the firearm they are used in? Any ideas on that?

Given time and enough repeated events, one can destroy a ball bearing by stroking it with feathers.

[Four Fingers of Death]

So do you guys think the Wiederlader guy on youtube is using a product or combination of products that was previously mentioned in this thread? I was also wanted to know if using some of these products over a long period of time will damage the barrel of the firearm they are used in? Any ideas on that?

My 586 has fired thousands of these coated bullets over the twenty odd years that they have been around there has been no deterioration in the barrel at all. No matter how I cast or how I sized or how I lubed, this gun shot everything accurately but always leaded. Not a mark with the coated bullets. I don't use plain lead in it anymore too much hassle.

A pair of 45Colt New Model Vaqueros I bought off a friend have barrels and forcing cones that look like new. He used them for several years, practicing at the range twice weekly with a minimum 200 rounds each session and off to a shoot every weekend. He used them for all of his shooting and I have run about 1500 rounds through each since I have owned them, no problems at all. If it wasn't for the fact that casting is a hobby that I enjoy, I'd use these for all of my shooting.

[kcinnick]

So do you guys think the Wiederlader guy on youtube is using a product or combination of products that was previously mentioned in this thread? I was also wanted to know if using some of these products over a long period of time will damage the barrel of the firearm they are used in? Any ideas on that?

It is very hard to shoot out a pistol barrel,even using copper jackets. The coating is bonded to the bullet, and is very slick, it is tough to hang on to the bullets sometimes the are so slick.

[fgmachine]

Thanks guys for the input. To me it sounds much more convenient than lubing for several different reasons, with that said, it still sounds like its difficult to make a coating from scratch, which is what everyone would probably like to do. It'd be nice to shoot my glock and not get leading in the factory barrel.

[HI-TEK]

G'day HITEK.

Thanks for your coating invention. I have been using it for many years on all the Topscore projectiles I have fired through my guns.
I cast for my own use and would love to try some of your coating.
I'm in northern NSW.

Thanks.

I am happy that you are satisfied. Top Sccore has been using my stuff for years.
The coating is very economical as one litre coats about 35,000-45,000 depending on finish required. If you wish to look us up, just send a personal message for contact and I can respond.

[leftiye]

Good to see ya posting again HI-TEK.

[Wal']

Hey Hi-Tek, welcome back, good times, now we can get this product of yours up & running.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Good to see you are back Joe.

[bstone5]

I have been reading the thread for a while.
The high pressure solid lube used in the bullets has be examined a few times in the discussion.

Of all of the common solid high pressure lubes avaliable it appears Hexagonal Borob Nitrate , HBN, would be a good choice. HBN is used to coat jacketet bullets much the same as MOLY is used to coat jacket bullets.

HBN is avaialbe and I have coated a lot of jacket bullets used in High Power Matches.

One Source Of HBN is indicated below.

http://lowerfriction.com/product-page.php?categoryID=2

I am guessing it could be added to powder coat and applied to a lead bullet.

The bullets in the pictures appear to have something internal to the paint

[Ken73]

I am guessing it could be added to powder coat and applied to a lead bullet.

How about powder coat, then coat with hBN? What method are you using to coat your jacketed bullets?

[bstone5]

I tumble the bullets with small steel balls to burnish the coating into the jacket.

The method I use is the same method I used to apply MOLY to the bullets.

With the HBN I skip the applying of the wax to the bullets. With MOLY coating wax is applied in a tumbler but the tumbling time is only a few minutes. I would warm up the steel balls and the MOLY coated bullets with a old hair dryer so the wax would stick very quickly.

There are several sites that talk about applying MOLY to jacketed bullets. The
6mm BR site has lot od discussion on applying coatings to bullets.

http://www.6mmbr.com/bulletcoating.html

The HBN might well be able to be rubbed into the outside of a powder coated bullet. The same tumbling method should work but the time of tumbling would be short so as not to damage the powder coat, I am guessing again.

In this thread PTFE is bad for the shooters health. In other threads they talk about wrapping the bullet with teflon tape, installing a gas check and shooting the bullets out of a rifle at high velocity.

I guess in the rifle there is less exposure to the PTFE material.

[kcinnick]

PTFE doesn't release any toxic gases until it reaches 680 degrees F. It is not really dangerous to the shooter, more to the people making things with it. The major problem with it is getting a high quality grade of PTFE in a small enough quantity to manufacture a coating with, there are varying grades of PTFE, and you need a fine grade to work as a bullet lubricant.

I wouldn't put your head in a bucket of PTFE on top of a fire... FYI, the symptoms from PTFE are flu like symptoms and long term exposure to the gas released at 680 degrees can cause birth defects to long term exposure. If you are being exposed enough to have flu like symptoms and don't stop, something is wrong with you.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Probably more like they are not measuring it scientifically. Just because some guys are doing it doesn't make it safe unfortunately. I was looking forward to experimenting with this and assembled some quality tape,but backed away right smartly when I heard that it may be dangerous. I have been led to believe it was why telflon coated bullets dropped off the radar in the early 90s,

Most of the guys that used it here on rifle bullets also sprayed it with G96 Polyurethane Stock Finish as well,so maybe that would keep the danger down to a dull roar.

After reading kcinnick's post, I plumb don't know what to think. Guess I will apply my dad's maxim, 'if in doubt, chuck it out.' I will stick to traditionally lubed bullets, professionally coated ones and paper patched ones while the jury is out.

[Ken73]

A few things I found while searching..

Someone's page on their method of coating with hBN: http://home.comcast.net/~jesse99/hex...e_coating.html

A thread where one gentleman claims he just powder coats his boolits and lubes 'em up like normal: http://forums.handloads.com/forum_po...084&PN=1&TPN=2

Having done engine work in the past I looked at some of the offerings the automotive world had to offer and found this stuff, which looks to be easy enough to apply:
http://www.powderbuythepound.com/CERMALUBE_-1_QUART/

[leftiye]

Any place to get less than an lb. of the hexagonal boron nitride and at less than 100 dollars? It sounds like hbn might avoid some of the reported negatives (which I wonder about as actually being true) of MDS. I really like the idea of having a dry lubricant in a lube, but it must be kept to a minimum so as to not contribute to fouling formations.

[bstone5]

Looking a round on the net the below links is for additional information and possible sources for HBN.

http://huntspecmat.com/powders/boron-nitride.html

http://sandblastingabrasives.com/hex...-page-781.html

If the teflon tape rifle bullets include a gas check then maybe the teflon tape never sees the high temperature of the powder burning.

The same thing might apply to a powder coated bullet with some fine powdered PTFE in the powder coat. If a gas check was applied then the powder coat with the PTFE might not see the high temperatures of the burning powder.

On other threads there is a lot of discussion with regard to home made gas checks applied to plain base bullets. Some of the home made gas check are made from the aluminum in soft drink cans.

Need to look around with regard to PTFE in the 3 to 10 micron size range.

Just some thoughts from the reading in the thread.

[kcinnick]

PTFE coated bullets left the market because they were claimed to be "Cop Killer" bullets. It has nothing to due with the dangers of PTFE (Prolonged exposure to PTFE heated beyond 680 degrees). I don't even think the gas produced at 680 degrees was known at the time. Some news reports said that teflon coated black talons could go through body armor. So what did Winchester do, stopped coating the bullets and changed the name.

Anyway, I think we can bring the coating to market for a hobbyist at around $2.00-$2.50 per thousand coated of coating depending on the bullet being coated. If that sounds like a reasonable number I am going to really dedicate some time and energy into downsizing the process and finding a way to cure a smaller batch, in an economical manner. Let me know your thoughts, it would be late this year, early next year before kits would be available. You would be looking somewhere around $100 for a kit to coat 45000-60000 bullets, there is very, very little waste. Bullets are ready now.