lead bullets coated with polymer paint

[bmiller]

I am shooting a 5"m&p with a storm lake barrel. I am using wheel weight lead. I do not have a hardness tester. I am getting some leading, but does not seem to hurt accuracy. The bore has a greyish look to it, but I think it is moly residue. I am tumble lubing by hand, air -drying for 30 minutes, then baking for an hour after they come up to temperature. I am still learning. The load is chronographed at 1070fps.

[1845greyhounds]

What temperature and why are you baking? I take it that the level of leading you're seeing isn't alarming...?

[kcinnick]

I have some restrictions on the first batch for selling the product. It would be a minimum 5 liter kit. Once I get final numbers, I only have estimates, I can quote prices for those interested in those amount of quantities. It is not an overnight process to import a haz-mat product from OZ to the Swamps of Louisiana.

Joe is willing to make a "Hobby" Kit with the same coating but a different catalyst to mix smaller batches, but that won't come to fruition by this shipment, he wants the coating to go out commercially first and get a good reputation first. The goal is to make something that a home caster could mix 1:1 and get consistent results without precise measuring equipment. Right now the mixture is much higher. I have some confidentiality stuff I had to agree to in order to get the coating, so.... I really want the coating and am not going to risk my supply. We have approximately 200 liters coming to the US, which should cover 12 million bullets give or take.

There is another company also planning to import the coating to the US, but they haven't placed their order yet, so I am jumping through the customs hoops to get it here. The independent data testing done on the coating is quite impressive, I think it is much better than shooting copper jacketed bullets through your gun.

I have a question.

Do people care if the coating is black? I will be honest, it would be nice to have different color coatings for different loads. But it is by no means a deal breaker. I put loaded rounds into boxes with load data on the top of the box, so it isn't absolutely necessary.

The conventional lube we use can be colored but most people that mix their own seem to use it as the color it comes out of the melting pot.

kcinnick, any word on pricing of 1 liter shipped for the coating out of Australia? Even a ballpark. So far we haven't heard any cost, just what it would cost you to ship to the states.

[bmiller]

Greyhounds, I live in a high humidity area, plus I am impatient! On the can it gives the force dry protocol. I am baking at 225°F.

Nick, please advise when you get a price nailed down.

[wrinkles]

The mention of a catalyst makes me think of something like prolane (duracoat) as a possible choice.

[kcinnick]

The first order is going to be used for commercial production, it is all spoken for. We are working with Joe to get a reasonable cost home hobby kit that won't break the bank and and toned down catalyst that isn't so high on the haz mat list. Right now it would cost me about as much to ship 1 liter of the catalyst as the kit cost, but the good news is regular shipments are going to be coming in to the US, and as soon as he has something worked out, we can get it out there. 5 liters of color and 1 liter of catalyst would run a fortune for a home caster (excess of $300 before shipping), a more reasonable package would be 1 liter of color and 1 liter of catalyst (toned down) and is a goal I hope we can reach. Also, there are concerns about people trying to use the coating in their kitchen, not using a respirator or some other Darwin award activity, so we are looking at legal issues and how we would need to package it, documentation, etc.

We looked at getting a custom coating mixed in the US and the places with the capabilities don't have an interest in doing small batches, they are going after defense contracts and large weapons contracts.

[63 Shiloh]

Making up and selling 'hobby packs' is a great idea mate.

Some mates and me have got some coming in and we are going to coat our own cast boolits at home.

I am surprised that you are the only US importer at this stage. I mentioned over a year ago that a US based company could make a killing importing the polymer coatings. So good luck to you, I reckon you are on a winner.

A suggestion if I may, concentrate on the pistol calibers at first, especially the 9mm. This coating process makes 9mm loading a pleasure, no leading at all, no gumming up dies, no need to sort out a lube that works. Just coat and load.


Mike

[kcinnick]

Making up and selling 'hobby packs' is a great idea mate.

Some mates and me have got some coming in and we are going to coat our own cast boolits at home.

I am surprised that you are the only US importer at this stage. I mentioned over a year ago that a US based company could make a killing importing the polymer coatings. So good luck to you, I reckon you are on a winner.

A suggestion if I may, concentrate on the pistol calibers at first, especially the 9mm. This coating process makes 9mm loading a pleasure, no leading at all, no gumming up dies, no need to sort out a lube that works. Just coat and load.


Mike

The coating is coming. Joe's version, and a copy version. The copy is already here, and they have been having problems with adhesion, the rifling is also cutting through the coating, something that doesn't happen with Supercoat. I am not going to advertise for that company, they tried to steal Joe's coating and it has made him very cautious, and they failed. Another company that sells bullets in Australia is going to market a coating here, I am not sure what color, but they haven't placed an order yet. I placed an order to coat 12 million bullets, give or take, just one color to keep things simple and test out the coating.

The biggest stumbling block I see for a home hobby kit is the need to have a vented oven. A powder coat oven won't work, and you really need convection.

[fullofdays]

The history of his thread is confusing me. Can someone in the know list out the following:


What coatings are working and what coatings are not & what coatings are available in the States in small batch and what coatings are not? what coatings require applying powdercoating & baking and which ones do not?




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[Four Fingers of Death]

The coating is coming. Joe's version, and a copy version. The copy is already here, and they have been having problems with adhesion, the rifling is also cutting through the coating, something that doesn't happen with Supercoat. I am not going to advertise for that company, they tried to steal Joe's coating and it has made him very cautious, and they failed. Another company that sells bullets in Australia is going to market a coating here, I am not sure what color, but they haven't placed an order yet. I placed an order to coat 12 million bullets, give or take, just one color to keep things simple and test out the coating.

The biggest stumbling block I see for a home hobby kit is the need to have a vented oven. A powder coat oven won't work, and you really need convection.

Sodbuster, the guy who used to operate a commercial bullet casting business (he still does, but now shoots black powder/cowboy action exclusively and doesn't bother with the coating anymore and sold off that part of the operation) and has provided me with a lot of advice said that some of the guys here use pizza ovens.

[Shooter6]

fullofdays
Protec is a powder coating that is available in USA and is normally used to coat fishing jigs. It is a coating that the object is dipped into and then heated and cooled. Look on Utube for ways to coat.
Sandstrum 28A is available in the USA from Sandstrum and is a moly added to what I don't know, but is available as a spray can or in qt.. It will air dry or force dry by heating.
You can also buy bullets coated from Bayou bullets in LA, the coating is about the same color as the Sandstrum.

[kcinnick]

Bayou bullets coating is green and does not use moly. The owner doesn't disclose the lubricant, and I respect that fact and I won't disclose what it is. I had the pleasure of hanging out with Donnie of bayou bullets for 1/2 a day last week and he has a 9 week backlog, and he ships and boxes his bullets the day after they are made 6 days a week. It was amazing hearing the master casters go ssshhhhh, plink, sshhhh, plink almost effortlessly, they did have to put a lead ingot in every now and then.

The sandstrom coating is ok, but had drawbacks all moly coatings have. It is expensive for what it is.

[Shooter6]

Kcinnick
I was only answering fullofdays question to the best of my knowledge. I should have added that for most shooters it will be better to wait for the commercial companies to sell bullets coated that have been tested for safety and operation in the guns designed for. Right now the only company offering a bullet is Bayou and you are right that moly has its problems as does the ProTec coating I have tried. When the Australian coatings are available in the USA from what I have seen of Bayou's prices most will not want to coat their own and will just buy coated the way we now buy lubed and get a better non smoking bullet. In fact the cost will be so low that I can see these bullets cutting into copper coated sales. I am coating a 20 gauge slug that will in all likely hood not be available the way pistol and rifle cal. will be.

[kcinnick]

Kcinnick
I was only answering fullofdays question to the best of my knowledge. I should have added that for most shooters it will be better to wait for the commercial companies to sell bullets coated that have been tested for safety and operation in the guns designed for. Right now the only company offering a bullet is Bayou and you are right that moly has its problems as does the ProTec coating I have tried. When the Australian coatings are available in the USA from what I have seen of Bayou's prices most will not want to coat their own and will just buy coated the way we now buy lubed and get a better non smoking bullet. In fact the cost will be so low that I can see these bullets cutting into copper coated sales. I am coating a 20 gauge slug that will in all likely hood not be available the way pistol and rifle cal. will be.

I hope you are right. I kind of jumped two feet in with a partner. I actually got to see the coating process, and it is not really set up as a small volume process. Hopefully once I get the coating in and get the kinks worked out I will be first to market with the Australian coating, but others are trying to get it here. The two things holding me back right now is the slow boat from Australia, waiting on the auto casting equipment, and the alphabet boys paperwork. If things go as planned I will be producing first of August, if not sooner.

[Four Fingers of Death]

[QUOTE=kcinnick; If things go as planned I will be producing first of August, if not sooner.[/QUOTE]


Good luck with that.

[Hang Fire]

How are the home grown experiments going? How is the import of coatings progressing?

I don't want this thread to die on the vine as I was finding it most interesting.

[Survival Bill]

Do you still have to lube these coated boolits or not?

[Hang Fire]

No, the coating encases the boolit like a jacket.

[kcinnick]

How are the home grown experiments going? How is the import of coatings progressing?

I don't want this thread to die on the vine as I was finding it most interesting.

Coating was put on the boat last Friday. Too bad there is no tracking between Sydney and New Orleans.

What we are getting is really only good for commercial applications. The curing process is the part that becomes a problem, a dedicated, vented, forced air commercial oven is needed to cure the coating.

[Shooter6]

My testing efforts have been put on hold due the a malfunction of my gun that is waiting for repair. but the most recent testing indicates problems with both the pro tec and sandstrom giving me a cleaning job. Not lead but residue in the barrel.