lead bullets coated with polymer paint

[popper]

Yes, I read all 21 pages. This is interesting, especially the pics of recovered CBs. I'm wondering if this is not really a 'liquid' paper patch solution. PET Polythylene terephthalate coatings I think is the invar stuff. 260 C melting, but coats at 70C. Then lube with WS2 for HV rifle?

[bmiller]

Who manufacturers the PET coatings? Do you have any experience working with them?

[Shooter6]

I dont think I am giving out any big secrets. the sandstrum products are moly disulfide
and I am guessing that the better coating is Tungsten Disulfide. If you look at a comparison you will see that the tungsten disulfide is more slipery but more expensive, but the price of the moly has gone up to almost the same level.

[popper]

DuPont ™ Rynite ® PET, http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/pet-...-material.html - I'm not fond of the alibaba site but it does give manuf names. The Tungsten Disulfide is better. Found some details under Invar corp. I was looking at polypropylene and polyurethane characteristics when I came across this.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I was aways told that Tungsten is potentially dangerous stuff and has a lot of serious impact on health. I imagine being shot out of a revolevr would cause it to mist/vaporise causing probs like the teflon coats did. Is this the case?

[kcinnick]

I dont think I am giving out any big secrets. the sandstrum products are moly disulfide
and I am guessing that the better coating is Tungsten Disulfide. If you look at a comparison you will see that the tungsten disulfide is more slipery but more expensive, but the price of the moly has gone up to almost the same level.

There are only so many Solid lubricants out there, but both moly and tungsten are nearly black, I don't see how supercoat could be green, blue, gold, copper, etc if the lubricant was black.

[kcinnick]

I dont think I am giving out any big secrets. the sandstrum products are moly disulfide
and I am guessing that the better coating is Tungsten Disulfide. If you look at a comparison you will see that the tungsten disulfide is more slipery but more expensive, but the price of the moly has gone up to almost the same level.

DuPont ™ Rynite ® PET, http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/pet-...-material.html - I'm not fond of the alibaba site but it does give manuf names. The Tungsten Disulfide is better. Found some details under Invar corp. I was looking at polypropylene and polyurethane characteristics when I came across this.

I do not believe Rynite nor PET resins is the secret...

[popper]

Tungsten Disulfide - not toxic and not black. Virgin teflon breaks down to a poisonous gas when burned. PET has low COF but is not a lube, it would be a plastic jacket. Moly gets hard and crusty build-up which is hard to remove from the bbl, the bbl should have a coating applied to it for best results, like alox.

[kcinnick]

I know PET is not in the coating. I now what is in 93% of the coating, its that other 7% that is proprietary. I have a good idea what it is from the data, but I looked at the separate ingredients cost vs the cost of the coating, and you would have to be buying ingredients by the ton to reproduce it for what it cost. Besides, I have too much respect for intellectual property to even try to copy the coating, even if it was cheaper.

It has some impressive properties.

Melting point: Does not melt
Ignition Temperature : Not Combustible
Tested up to 3500 FPS and retained the coating

It eliminates the need for gas checks on rifle bullets and allows you to use bullet designs without bullet grooves to increase weight if desired.

Tungsten Disulfide - not toxic and not black. Virgin teflon breaks down to a poisonous gas when burned. PET has low COF but is not a lube, it would be a plastic jacket. Moly gets hard and crusty build-up which is hard to remove from the bbl, the bbl should have a coating applied to it for best results, like alox.

[bmiller]

Nick, do you have the cost to buy nailed down yet? I got to have it!

[popper]

Any organic chemists on the board? Question is - if I dip CBs in antifreeze and then the reagent, does it form a coating and if so, can the process be repeated to thicken the coating? PM please for safety reasons.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Tungsten Disulfide - not toxic and not black. Virgin teflon breaks down to a poisonous gas when burned. PET has low COF but is not a lube, it would be a plastic jacket. Moly gets hard and crusty build-up which is hard to remove from the bbl, the bbl should have a coating applied to it for best results, like alox.

Thats good, thanks.

[finishman2000]

either polyester or epoxy based with a friction package added?

[kcinnick]

Tungsten Disulfide - not toxic and not black. Virgin teflon breaks down to a poisonous gas when burned. PET has low COF but is not a lube, it would be a plastic jacket. Moly gets hard and crusty build-up which is hard to remove from the bbl, the bbl should have a coating applied to it for best results, like alox.

Every tungsten disulfide I can find is dark grey or "nearly black", maybe a hair shade lighter than moly.

[Silver-Silver]

I have a question.

Do people care if the coating is black? I will be honest, it would be nice to have different color coatings for different loads. But it is by no means a deal breaker. I put loaded rounds into boxes with load data on the top of the box, so it isn't absolutely necessary.

The conventional lube we use can be colored but most people that mix their own seem to use it as the color it comes out of the melting pot.

kcinnick, any word on pricing of 1 liter shipped for the coating out of Australia? Even a ballpark. So far we haven't heard any cost, just what it would cost you to ship to the states.

[popper]

kcinnick - I have NO experience with the tungsten disulfide, just going from pictures in a post of someone using it. One comment was it wasn't 'black and dirty' like moly, he actually put his dirty rags in the washer without the spouse griping. He was using the impact method of application. Still don't know if it gets hard and crusty in the bbl.

[Shooter6]

I have used moly before in my in line ML and never had a problem. I think it made the gun easier to clean. Actually I had the idea to add a little to the pro tec I am using to coat the 20 gauge slugs and it mixed with out any problems and I am hoping to get out today to try some with this coating and the Sandstrum 28a spray.

[Shooter6]

http://sports.webshots.com/photo/248...05544283SdZbAk
target for today. shooting 50 yards with scoped 1187 20 gauge. the first shot was the low one from clean barrel. This is 2 coats of Sandstrum 28A on a 510 grain lead slug. the slug starts at about .615 and ends up about .617 after spraying. Compaired to the pro tec coating this was the most consistant shooting I had today. Lots of virtical stringing with the pro tec but the coating was varied with protec. from .619 to .621. Going to go to 3 coats of 28A and add a little more molly to the protec for tomorrow. I do get a lighter coating from the protec with the molly added. ( about 10%) I want to see how much molly can be added to the protec before it causes problems.

[bmiller]

I will shoot my second match with the Sandstrom 28a coated bullets this weekend. The bullets worked well in the first match. I am debating on trying some 9a, is there anyone with experiance with this product?

[1845greyhounds]

For those of you using Sandstrom 28A, have you been monitoring leading? I have tried the 28A on soft range scrap lead (mostly lead from FMJ's) and on some purchased "hard" cast 40 cal bullets in my stock Glock. In both cases, the barrel had a visible and very significant leading from about an inch forward of the throat to the muzzle after only 10 shots. I managed to recover some of the shot hard cast bullets and they were completely naked.

Additional info:
- My load was only running ~800 fps
- The purchased (hard cast) bullets had all wax removed with acetone prior to coating.
- All bullets were degreased with naptha and allowed to fully dry before applying 1 coat of 28A.
- The 28A used for coating came from a fully and freshly agitated can.
- All 28A coating looked uniform and completely encapsulated the lead. No exposed lead after coating.
- My cast bullets (the soft ones) were sized to 0.401 in a LEE.
- The hard cast bullets were shot w/o additional sizing.

If you are using 28A and aren't getting excessive leading, what is your application process? How hard are your bullets?