lead bullets coated with polymer paint

[Orochimaru]

I think the problem with those 45ACP's is actually from the alloy being too hard for the job at hand. I tested them at a whopping 20.3 BHN tonight...

In fairness, it was an experimental alloy that I'm using for my DIY plating experiments (to see how tin/antimony content impacts plating), and I kinda knew that it was harder than it should be.

So....

I'm going to melt it down and re-cast the bullets with a BHN more suitable to 45ACP pressures, coat them, and try again.

[geargnasher]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the weak, tiny, tumble-lube bands are the culprit. Harder alloy would certainly reduce the skid, although a softer alloy might conform better and allow the boolit to skid slightly and deform without scraping back the coating. I was initially thinking the jump to the rifling from a long throat or the boolit being seated too deeply might have been causing it, but the recovered revolver boolits, with much more "jump" to the rifling, showed zero evidence of skidding or widened engraves on the front part of the boolit, which is amazing in itself.

Gear

[Orochimaru]

The coating's flexibility is what I think may provide the advantage for a softer alloy. The skid would create a modest deformation, but the coating wouldn't have to bear the brunt of this force on its own -- it could stretch with the underlying softer lead.

Perhaps!

I'll just have to cast some softer ones and go shooting! What a "shame". LOL!

[kcinnick]

I have shot bayou bullets. They did not lead, they did not work in my pistol. I know several people that love them. I used a lee tumble lube mold and sandstrom coating. Had best results unsized. Unsized dia is. 358. I am going to shoot an IDPA match tomorrow with them.

How did the 28a work out?

I have found two suppliers of the polymer coating, one is the original supercoat and the other is a copy of the original supercoat... I am waiting on pricing, but it will probably have to be a group buy effort to get the product at an affordable price in the US. I would much rather go with the original producer, since it is his formula, I hope everything works out. Looks like the original coating has been basically stolen from the original maker by some of his long term customers.

[Shooter6]

What I have found is that the coating on the slug (a .620 slug) that has bands are thinner on the band. I feel that unless you need a band to crimp the shell bands are not needed, but getting the right final thickness is critical. On the banded slug the rifling will cut into the coating. The .616 none banded slug is perfect as it now ends up at .621 and this is just right for my barrel. I am getting no leading now and as soon as I work out the perfect wad height in the 20 gauge slug I am sure the vertical stringing will be gone. Now that the leading is gone I can work on getting the wad and crimp on the shell right without worring about leading being the problem.

[bmiller]

28 A has been working good. I still am open to trying something else. I would be interested in a group buy on the super coating. Where can i find info on it?

[kcinnick]

They use it in Australia. I found out the "Copy cat" isn't a copy cat, they got permission from the manufacture to distribute in the US, but the original seller is willing to sell direct to me since the company hasn't even placed an order to export to the US yet. There are copy cats out there however, and I will not say who is using a copy of the coating, and I hope nobody supports those that steel proprietary formulas. I have also found out what the coating is on the coated bullets offered in the US, but I will not divulge that since it is being used off label, but I can say nobody is even close to getting it. The powder coat is OK if it where to have a stable lubricant at the heat and pressure produced by the firearms, however it is more effective to have the solid lubricant placed in a liquid to cure/dry to coat the bullets. Also, with tumble coating and heat curing you can process way more bullets than powder coat, and if you get a formula that works with surface area vs how much coating you can repeat the process with consistency. We are working on getting a quote to get it sent to the port of New Orleans and if I can swing it I am going to buy it. I will most certainly have to repackage it for individuals since it comes in 5 liter bottles and one liter covers 60k bullets, and you can dilute it with acetone to get more coverage. 2-3 thin layers diluted is stronger than one coat full strength. It is certainly not cheap, it runs more than the 28a, closer to the 9a heat cure moly Sandstrom. I am probably going with the original color, which is a color changing coating that turns from blue to green, you know it is cured when it reaches a certain color of green. Most other colors available are metallic, yellow, copper, gold, etc. but they cover less and cost more money.

I think I also figured out the lubricant used on the Hi-tek supercoat, but it is not widely available in the US, and is very expensive, it is probably going to be cheaper to import.

[Hang Fire]

They use it in Australia. I found out the "Copy cat" isn't a copy cat, they got permission from the manufacture to distribute in the US, but the original seller is willing to sell direct to me since the company hasn't even placed an order to export to the US yet. There are copy cats out there however, and I will not say who is using a copy of the coating, and I hope nobody supports those that steel proprietary formulas. I have also found out what the coating is on the coated bullets offered in the US, but I will not divulge that since it is being used off label, but I can say nobody is even close to getting it. The powder coat is OK if it where to have a stable lubricant at the heat and pressure produced by the firearms, however it is more effective to have the solid lubricant placed in a liquid to cure/dry to coat the bullets. Also, with tumble coating and heat curing you can process way more bullets than powder coat, and if you get a formula that works with surface area vs how much coating you can repeat the process with consistency. We are working on getting a quote to get it sent to the port of New Orleans and if I can swing it I am going to buy it. I will most certainly have to repackage it for individuals since it comes in 5 liter bottles and one liter covers 60k bullets, and you can dilute it with acetone to get more coverage. 2-3 thin layers diluted is stronger than one coat full strength. It is certainly not cheap, it runs more than the 28a, closer to the 9a heat cure moly Sandstrom. I am probably going with the original color, which is a color changing coating that turns from blue to green, you know it is cured when it reaches a certain color of green. Most other colors available are metallic, yellow, copper, gold, etc. but they cover less and cost more money.

I think I also figured out the lubricant used on the Hi-tek supercoat, but it is not widely available in the US, and is very expensive, it is probably going to be cheaper to import.

All you have posted is that you claim to know many secrets others are not privvy to, but will not divulge any of them. So just exactly what was the purpose of the post?

[kcinnick]

All you have posted is that you claim to know many secrets others are not privvy to, but will not divulge any of them. So just exactly what was the purpose of the post?

If you look you can figure all of the coatings out, with exception of the hi-tek supercoat, the lubricant is a highly guarded secret, but I suspect I know what it might be.

The commercial coating used on the commercial poly bullets available in the US is used off label, I would not want to divulge that information due to liability reasons. I don't yet know enough about the coating other than the lubricant and what its original purpose. I am going to do more research on the coating, and I can tell you nobody is on the right track with this one, but it is available from industrial paint supplies.

The two bullet coatings we have available are the ones produced by Sandstrom and the Hi-tek coatings in Australia. Other members are currently testing Sandstrom, I am trying to import the Hi-tek to test, the only problem is that I would need to order quite a large amount to make shipping cost effective and if I were to make it available to those interested I would have to repackage and re label it, unless anyone wanted 25 liters plus the 5 liters catalyst, before dilution you would be able to coat 1.8 million bullets.

I dug deep into this, and found out some things that I don't wish to share. I do not want to hurt anyone's business or recommend to use something not designed to be used to coat a projectile. I am not looking to make money on selling coating, I just want to share the cost, if someone else wants to import it and distribute it and they live near a port centrally located in the US, I would be more than happy to help them place an order for coating as long as they order me some, it would save me a lot of work.

There is a company that plans to sell the coating in the US, but they have not started to move the needle on the process yet.

Nick

[Freeborn Man]

Keep us posted on the import stuff. I'm interested.

[bmiller]

When I shoot commercially available green bullets there is one thing that makes me nervous. They smell just like grinding wheels being used on a hand grinder. I am sure that is not an ingredient, but that smell makes one wonder. I do not get that weird smell with Sandstrom. No point really,just an observation.

[kcinnick]

I have successfully made arrangements to import the Hi-Tek Supercoat they use on the bullets in Australia. You can read about it on the two major bullet manufacturers in Australia, HBRC and Topscore.

The cost will be similar in volume to that of the Sandstrom 9a heat cure product. It is a two part polymer paint with solid lubricant, so if someone is really interested in some, let me know via PM, I would be glad to add on to the order for you. It cost me the same to ship 20 liters or 100 liters, or even more. A minimum order would be 5 liters of coating and 1 liter of catalyst, anything less would be too hard to bottle the catalyst, especially since I am doing this as a service more than a profit making enterprise, in the future I will sell the coating for a profit, but for now the only savings would really be shipping savings if someone where to get in on the order! If you want to get together in groups or gun clubs and order then split it up that will be fine as long as one person sends me payment. Each mixed liter should cover 45-60k bullets depending on the bullet and how thick you put it on. Order time frame is about two weeks away, shipping will be 6-8 weeks since it is going on the slow boat from Australia to New Orleans. I won't know shipping costs until I see how I have to ship it, I assume I should be safe shipping UPS or Fedex ground.

I go by the same username on Bayoushooter.com if anyone is uncomfortable with my minimal posts on this forum, last I checked I had a 100% trader rating on Bayoushooter!

[1845greyhounds]

Kcinnick, I am interested but would like a few more details before committing. For those of us that don't know the cost of Sandstrom 9A, what is the approximate cost per liter of the paint and the catalyst? What is the application process? You mentioned a thermal cure, any details? Will you supply a copy of the MSDS with each order? I think that might be a shipping requirement for chemicals.

[bmiller]

Kcinnick, what is the shelf life of the product? I shoot quite a bit, but i don't know if I will shoot 40000 in a year. Thanks

[Silver-Silver]

Kcinnick,
Count me in on 1 liter to start. You know I am interested !

Kcinnick, what is the shelf life of the product? I shoot quite a bit, but i don't know if I will shoot 40000 in a year. Thanks

Bmiller,
A suggestion for you is don't worry about shooting that much, you just have to cast that many. If you take your popular calibers and cast 40K, and then coat them. Shelf life is un-important.

[kcinnick]

I have all kinds of data available on the coating that was sent by the manufacture.

The process involves mixing the appropriate amount of coating and catalyst, diluting with a certain amount of acetone, then pouring on thr tumbling bullets. The method recommended was a bucket or trash bin inside a cement mixer. After that you dump the bullets out on mesh screens and let them dry. You then bake they bullet to a minimum temp of 180 degrees celsius, rinse and repeat. You can do the process 2-3 times, it is up to you.

The advantage is you have bullets that can handle velocities once only reserved for jacketed bullets and you don't have to lube. I am working with ballisti cast to make a sizer that just sizes, no lube parts and he said it is going to cut my machine costs significantly. I think this is the wave of the future since the added cost to coat each bullet is $.001 and it had so many advantages. When I have final shipping and customs cost I can get an accurate cost on the 5 liter bundle, I would have to mark up the product to package it in a one liter bundle, but I will see if I can find suitable containers at a decent price. The maker is being very reasonable with his costs in order to get the product in the US, however estimated shipping and custom fees are around $1100 before I get the first bottle.

[Orochimaru]

I'm interested in the secret mix, too.

Depending on what the final cost is, I'd probably be interested in purchasing a liter or two.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have all kinds of data available on the coating that was sent by the manufacture.

The process involves mixing the appropriate amount of coating and catalyst, diluting with a certain amount of acetone, then pouring on thr tumbling bullets. The method recommended was a bucket or trash bin inside a cement mixer. After that you dump the bullets out on mesh screens and let them dry. You then bake they bullet to a minimum temp of 180 degrees celsius, rinse and repeat. You can do the process 2-3 times, it is up to you.

The advantage is you have bullets that can handle velocities once only reserved for jacketed bullets and you don't have to lube. I am working with ballisti cast to make a sizer that just sizes, no lube parts and he said it is going to cut my machine costs significantly. I think this is the wave of the future since the added cost to coat each bullet is $.001 and it had so many advantages. When I have final shipping and customs cost I can get an accurate cost on the 5 liter bundle, I would have to mark up the product to package it in a one liter bundle, but I will see if I can find suitable containers at a decent price. The maker is being very reasonable with his costs in order to get the product in the US, however estimated shipping and custom fees are around $1100 before I get the first bottle.

God luck with it, I have used thousands of bullets coated with Joe's stuff and they have been absolutey, utterly trouble free and reliable.

[Wal']

God luck with it, I have used thousands of bullets coated with Joe's stuff and they have been absolutey, utterly trouble free and reliable.

What he said.

[Four Fingers of Death]

That was good luck, not God luck, lol.