lead bullets coated with polymer paint

[Windy City Kid]

Any new information with the bullet coating?

[Four Fingers of Death]

Any new information with the bullet coating?

Whoops! I put a reminder on my new phone, but it is a lot less user friendly than my last one and I keep missing teh reminders. I rang him a lot of times and just got a busy signal (probably got the phone off the hook).

Will try again on Monday.

[singleshot]

Krylon Fusion contains a solvent that etches plastic, that's how it adheres to the slick stuff. It has no benefits over conventional acrylic paints for boolits as far as I can see, but I think there are a lot of products in aerosol cans that do.

I'll even give you one: Amsoil brand "heavy duty metal protector and motorcycle chain lube". Basically a thin version of LLA in a spray can, and it costs about eight bucks for 18 net ounces, and it dries like 45/45/10 making it simple to use and second only to White Label's X-lox in economy.

Gear

I've used this to push-size boolits, then tumble lube after, works fine for that and HAVE thought about trying it alone.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I remember reading an artice in an Aussie gunzine many years ago. The writer 'paper' patched his boolits with teflon plumber's tape then lined the boolits and sprayed them with G96 Polyurethane stock spray. This allowed him to get jacketed velocities with no leading. I never got around to trying it. I think if you bore in mind the barrel's twist direction and were careful, you could just get by with the plumber's tape.

Be aware (I wasn't until a few years ago) that there are three (that I know about) levels with plumber's tape. The normal stuff which is very cheap, aimed at the home handyman, which is white coloured on a blue reel. Then there is the pro plumber's tape which is light pink in colour on a dark pink roll and finally the yellow reel which is pro level for gas pipes (I haver never used this stuff). There is a world of difference between the home handyman and pro stuff and I refuse to use the cheap stuff anymore, the pro level stuff is so good and worth the money. If you were going to try this experiment, I would recommend paying the extra dollar or whatever it is a roll.

[Stephen Cohen]

I remember reading that artical too, was some years back though.

[Hang Fire]

New to me, but I see Cabela's is now carrying Herter's (CCI Blazer) ammo which has a blue nylon clad boolit.

[Jeff H]

Whew! I read through the entire thread and didn't see this addressed, but I may have missed it.......

What happens when you recover the coated lead and melt it back down?

Does it burn off or do you just scoop it out like bullet jackets and gas checks?

[Ausglock]

G'day, Jeff.
You are correct, Sir.
The coating floats to the surface and gets scooped off with the dross.

I often get given loaded rounds and rouge bullets by other shooters. These get pulled and added to the melt. The coating changes colour (gold turns dark brown) but doesn't burn.

Last year, I was given a few 1000 Hawksbury River brand "Blackhawks". These came from a bad batch of bullets from a few years ago. The black coating would not stay on the bullet as it traversed the bore. When these were melted down, the coating did burn off.

[Jeff H]

G'day, Jeff.
You are correct, Sir.
The coating floats to the surface and gets scooped off with the dross.....

Thanks, Ausglock.
Best to hear this from someone who has seen it, done it. There is a lot of guessing going on in the thread - positive guessing, which means folks are working their beans in overdrive and on overtime. I will likely succumb to the temptation to "spray paint" some lead myself and will post anything I find.

What about abrasion? Has anyone experienced any positive or negative aspects of a particular treatment? I only ask because there are color coatings that include solid pigments of all sorts - not necessarily chosen for their low coefficient of friction but for their suitability to affect/enhance the aesthetic.

Great thread! I have yet to even mix the stuff I collected for 45/45/10, but this is what makes casting and reloading so fascinating. Even just the variations on how one applies LLA can keep a fella busy for a while.

[bartman]

Hey I just got threw reading this thread and it got me thinking why not use por-15? I have painted some rims and other car parts with it and I am very impressed. I brushed on and it layed perfectly flat when cured, a high gloss thats as hard as powder coat. You can thin it at ten percent and spray it on. They claim it penetrates metal and hardens it. The only down side is that it is pricey at 30 bucks a pint but it does spread a long way. Im not shure how it reacts to heat that might be a problem. What do you guys think?

[uscra112]

Been ignoring this thread for a long while, but finally read it. What's encouraging to me is the fact that the boolit suppliers are keeping their process secret. My 45 years of industrial experience taught me that "secret" means that the thing is so darned simple that anybody can do it, once they know how, and probably so simple that it's public domain at that. If it were anything revolutionary, they'd get a patent. That's why they have to keep it secret. Keep working in cracking the code, guys !

[Four Fingers of Death]

I got onto Joe Ban the guy who makes the chemical all of the commercial casters use in Australia. He wouldn't go into the formula of course, but said it had absolutely no teflon in it. He said the early coated bullets were teflon based and supplied by DuPont. He worked for them at the time. When the hoo-haar about the Winchester Talons came out, the dangers of using teflon in forearms were also realised by DuPont (they provided the coating for Wiinchester), they pulled the pin on it completely.

Joe was approached by commercial casters here to find a replacement product and the rest is history. Buying normal cast and lubed bullets off a commercial caster in Australia is all but impossible and a special order item with a few. There are one or two guys who specialise in black powder bullets and use traditional methods (well one or two that I know about, as well as a few club armourers, etc, there are probably heaps out there, but none in a big way). All the major players only supply coated bullets. I have spoken to a few and they say the coated bullets are pretty much foolproof and they never, ever have a customer complaint or problem, too easy.

Part of the problem is with the Telflon is that with the pressures and heat involved in firing it out of a gun, especially a revolver is that fine pieces of teflon get into a mist and are very dangerous. They also let lead 'vapour' or elemental lead (I can't remember the exact term/s he used) particles with are an extreme health hazard, especially in an indoor range environment. His product is the only one of it's type in the world that has withstood independent lab tests and is guaranteed not to produce these very undesirable and dangerous by-products.

The chemical is applied in a tumbler type appliance or by hand using a stick or stirrer. The first coat is extremely important and is to be as thin a coat as possible. they are then tipped out of the tumbler and spreadout to dry. They is then 'cooked' in an oven (my caster friend says 20mins, but Joe said about 10 minutes). They are allowed to cool and are re-coated with a thicker coating, tipped out, dried and cooked again.

I have fired many thousands of these bullets and I have retrieved many from the butts at the range. The coating is always completely intact, even in the grooves left by the rifling. My friend demonstrates the toughness by placing a coated bullt on his concrete floor and striking the bullet with all his might. The bullet is always bent out of shape, but the coating is always intact.

He sells the chemical in 5 litre (a US Gallon is approx 4ltr) containers. He is willing to ship overseas, but will have to construct more solid packaging. He usually ships 4x small drums in a heavy cardboard box. He says commercial casters producing a million bullets a month, go through approximately a litre a month. Group buy???

I will be treating my commercial cast boolits with this coating with a little more respect in future.

He is also developing with another guy (Joe is not a shooter, just a chemist) a coating this will withstand 3000fps+, that will be interesting.

[Slaney]

What price was he quoting? One litre would do a lifetime. I'm in for a group buy!

[Windy City Kid]

Four Fingers,

If we buy the coating from your friend Joe, will he give us the instructions how to coat the cast bullets with his coating?

I think we need to get a Group Buy Honcho for Joe's Bullet Coating.

[Pigslayer]

I'll stick with SPG lube. Not into designer bullets.

[uscra112]

I'll stick with SPG lube. Not into designer bullets.

The tumbling process cannot do good things for the uniformity of cast boolit the bases, so for the serious rifle accuracy buffs I suspect this may be a non-starter.

Importing this may require paperwork that will reveal what's in it, by the way. You'd have to be able generate the MSDS to transport it commercially.

[Four Fingers of Death]

The tumbling process cannot do good things for the uniformity of cast boolit the bases, so for the serious rifle accuracy buffs I suspect this may be a non-starter.

Importing this may require paperwork that will reveal what's in it, by the way. You'd have to be able generate the MSDS to transport it commercially.

I don't think it makes much difference, our top shooters use them in competition and compete against top shooters in the states and elsewhere. I have fired lots of bullets which were cast in the same mould by the same caster, both traditonally sized and lubed as well as coated and didn't notice any difference in accuracy.

Joe is well aware of the export requirements and told me what forms, permits, etc were needed, but it went in one ear and out the other as it didn't really effect me.

His contact details are as follows:

Joe Ban
J&M Specialized Products P/L
230 Putta Road Upper Lansdowne NSW Australia 2430.

Phone +61 2 65569004 Mobile +61 412 140821

I think it would be best if you dealt with him directly, considering the cost involved and he seems quiet happy to discuss the procedure, etc. I know calls pre paid from the Post Office, etc in Australia are dirt cheap, it would be worth getting it from the horse's mouth.

The chemical's cost ranges from approximately $AU50-$AU60 a litre. The metallic styled coatings are dearer and don't cover as many bullets, (45-45K as against 50-60K for the standard coatings). The advantage of the metallic style coatings, apart from looks are improved lubricity (is that a word?), it gets harder and better the faster it goes. There is no abrasive in the metallic finish. The advantages of the standard coatings is that they are able to be spread thinner, etc.

This carries a dangerous goods listign and requires a lot extra packaging for overseas shipment.

Decanting and re-distribution once arriving in the States is a big problem as well.

I made a mistake in the amount of coverage reported recently, still goes a long way though.

Possibly

[Four Fingers of Death]

I forgot to add, it is better if you talk directly to Joe as you can discuss your requirements and he can design your chemical to exactly suit your needs. He doesn't just sell stock lines, but mixes each batch to the client;s specific requirements, eg, metallic/not metallic finish, low speed/high speed, etc, etc. I am not trying to palm you guys off, but it is such an expensive and heavily personalised product.

[Slaney]

Many thanks for your efforts 4 fingers! I'll give him a call Monday.

If I buy 5 litres of the stuff would anyone be interested in sharing the cost, maybe a litre each?

Once again, thanks for the time and effort.

[Four Fingers of Death]

That's no prob. I Learnt a lot along the way as well.