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Thread: BAC Lube

  1. #1
    Boolit Bub
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    BAC Lube

    Those of you that cast your own bullets for bullseye use... just wondering what you use for lube and how well satisfied you are with it.

    I've been using "BAC" from White Label Lube on 148gr wadcutters that I cast from scrap wheelweight. I will usually add a pound or two of linotype to each 20 pound pot in an effort to harden it up a little bit more. I size to .358" in a SAECO lubrisizer.

    My normal load is 3.1gr W-231 or HP-38. Have never chronographed this load so don't know the exact speed but it is pretty comfortable in both my S&W Model 52-2 and S&W K-38.... certainly not a hot load at all. I still note some light leading in the barrel after 150 rounds or so. Easy enough to remove with a bit of Chore Boy copper scrub pad on a bronze brush.

    Just wondering if there might be a better option for lube.

    http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/

  2. #2
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    Hard to beat BAC for what you're doing.

    If you have ANY lead in the barrel after a few sessions with cast I would say you have "Smithitis", a condition where the cylinder throats are undersized slightly and the forcing cone was in fact cut with a rusty railroad spike. You might also have a restriction at the beginning of the lands due to barrel thread crush.

    I would check the above for both guns, ream the cylinder throats if necessary, firelap the restriction out of the barrels, polish the forcing cones (retaining whatever angle they already have), and use the ww straight, they are plenty hard without the lino, just add a little tin for castability.

    But as far as lube goes, that should be the last thing you change unless you're using garbage for lube, and you certainly aren't.

    Gear
    You can't fix Stupid, but you can occasionally head it off before it hurts something. --Stephen Adams

    To universalize one's experience and state it as the norm is always thin ice on which to stand.--CharGar

    Being able to separate the wheat from the chaff has always been a valuable skill in all of life's activities. --Bwana


  3. #3
    Boolit Master Marlin Junky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Dog View Post
    Those of you that cast your own bullets for bullseye use... just wondering what you use for lube and how well satisfied you are with it.

    I've been using "BAC" from White Label Lube on 148gr wadcutters that I cast from scrap wheelweight. I will usually add a pound or two of linotype to each 20 pound pot in an effort to harden it up a little bit more. I size to .358" in a SAECO lubrisizer.

    My normal load is 3.1gr W-231 or HP-38. Have never chronographed this load so don't know the exact speed but it is pretty comfortable in both my S&W Model 52-2 and S&W K-38.... certainly not a hot load at all. I still note some light leading in the barrel after 150 rounds or so. Easy enough to remove with a bit of Chore Boy copper scrub pad on a bronze brush.

    Just wondering if there might be a better option for lube.

    http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/
    If you're leading, it's not likely the fault of BAC. Work out your boolit to barrel/chamber fit and use straight WW metal or even WW metal alloyed with Pb. If you develop mold cavity fill-out issues with the more malleable alloy, turn up the thermostat to somewhere in the 750F to 800F neighborhood.

    MJ

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    For the loads your're using, the alloy could be really soft, so there is no need for the lino. It could be that you're sizing too small, and blowby is causing the leading.

    Check your "as cast" bullet diameter, make up a few dummy rounds, and see if they'll chamber. If they do, don't size them. You should be able to use a tumble lube like Lee Liquid Alox and not have any leading.

    If you need to size them, size to the largest diameter that will chamber without resistance.

  5. #5
    Boolit Mold
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    Unhappy Thanks neede

    Evil Dog, come back and thank the nice gentlemen they just saved you years of fustration and have passed knowledge garnered from personal experiences.
    One thing I have trouble understanding and maybe I do myself: People come on and ask for info then never return to say "thanks, I tried what you suggested and I am grateful for your sharing of knowledge".
    I personally know everything about casting, but every now and then I come and read posts before the start of my work day; and learn new and useful things from new and old casters here. ED not coming down on you but a general rant for every reader of this post and one I wil probably paste and copy in other messages.

  6. #6
    PAPERPATCH MASTER


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    I can`t begin to put a number on how many Lyman 358459 wadcutters I cast up out of straight ww. I used Hodgon alox lube until I couldn`t find it anymore, then I used about any alox type lube that I found. I used the same powders and charge as you and all this time - no leading! My S&W 14 was more accurate than I was is the excuse I used when I threw a "snow bird" on my target. The previous owner of the 14 did ream the cylinders for uniformity and obviously it worked well. All this shooting has been done over the last 30 odd years and I still use the same load combo I mentioned.Robert

  7. #7
    Black Powder 100%
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    I fired thousands of Speer 148 gr HBWC downrange while a police firearms instructor both in training and shooting PPC matches. You don't need to be putting Linotype in your alloy. It makes it too hard and is most likely the cause of your leading. A BHN of 9 or so is good enough. You might need a little tin put in for mold fill out but that is it. Your cylinder should be checked for correct dimensions. I would also throat the revolver to 11 degrees, chamfer the cylinders. Your BAC lube is one of the best and not the problem. I would be willing to bet that for your shooting style you will not be able to find a better lube.
    Shooter of the "HOLY BLACK" SASS 81802 AKA FAIRSHAKE; NRA ; BOLD; WARTHOG;Deadwood Marshal;Bayou Bounty Hunter; So That his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

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    I would check the cylinder throats on the revolver, I have seen S&W's with abnormally large throats and smaller than groove dia. throats. Like Forest Gump says "you never know what your gona get". IMHO your just wasting your linotype on that load, but they probably cast pretty with the added tin. I would use just WW alloy or even alloy it with pure if you have it as one other poster said. I have used BAC for years now and it is excellent lube at a price that can't be beat, I'm not sure that you could make it yourself and save any money.
    Mtgrs737
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  9. #9
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balade41 View Post
    Evil Dog, come back and thank the nice gentlemen they just saved you years of fustration and have passed knowledge garnered from personal experiences.
    One thing I have trouble understanding and maybe I do myself: People come on and ask for info then never return to say "thanks, I tried what you suggested and I am grateful for your sharing of knowledge".
    I personally know everything about casting, but every now and then I come and read posts before the start of my work day; and learn new and useful things from new and old casters here. ED not coming down on you but a general rant for every reader of this post and one I wil probably paste and copy in other messages.
    Pardon me for being a bit sarcastic here Mr Balade but you're right. I made my original post at 9:19 PM and there were replies at 9:42, 11:59 and 3:17 AM. Then your reminder at 5:46 AM. Obviously I should have stayed up all night watching this site rather than going to bed at 9:30 PM... I totally apologize.

    Seriously though, I really do appreciate this site and several others that I visit quite often (a half dozen or more times daily). The amount of good well thought out advice offered is totally awesome. My thanks to you all.

  10. #10
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    You're welcome.

    At least we all agree that:

    1) You don't need the lino, just use clip-on WW + tin
    2) Your guns probably have dimensional issues and rough forcing cones
    3) BAC is plenty good for your application.

    Gear
    You can't fix Stupid, but you can occasionally head it off before it hurts something. --Stephen Adams

    To universalize one's experience and state it as the norm is always thin ice on which to stand.--CharGar

    Being able to separate the wheat from the chaff has always been a valuable skill in all of life's activities. --Bwana


  11. #11
    me,myself and i
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    umm u didnt state if plain based or hollow based ( yup it can make a difference) for my thoughts i have to wonder if what ur seeing mite be more of an antimonial wash as oppsed to leading ( it is possible - especially the way u describe removing it ) i have to agree that 38 low velocity target loads shouldnt lead with a very soft alloy or a hard alloy properly sized n some kinda lube , that last isnt very critical for what ur doing tho .......

  12. #12
    Boolit Bub
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    These are bevel base button nose wadcutters (Lyman # 358091). They are loaded backwards into the cartridge case so that they will be flush with the case mouth rather than really set back into the case. This is what they look like if loaded with the button nose facing forward. This is NOT the way I load them though... what is the actual base of the bullet is loaded flush with the case mouth.



    They do seem to group quite well when loaded backwards... even better then when loaded with the button nose facing forward. They can not stick out beyond the case mouth though or they will not fit into a Model 52 magazine.

    Just don't have a double ended wadcutter mold yet.

    For hollow base wadcutters I use the swaged ones from Precision Delta.... 3.1gr W-231 or HP-38 and flush seated in the normal manner.

  13. #13
    me,myself and i
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    ahhhh now he throws in the model 52 part lolz ,i dont have one my buddy however does , he told me one day that low velocity only and for some reason hollow bases work best ( i'm guessing that the HB swells easily enough to seal no matter the bore size ,i'm still gonna go with the possibility of the antimony washing off a bit ,for what the gun was designed for u should even be able to use rooster jacket with success ( and everyone will pretty much agree that that's a low velocity lube anyways ) one of my manuals has a section or data just for this gun ..let me look ....it was the speer #11 they also list 3.2 as max for the hp38 and 3.3 max in the ww231 .......of course the start isnt much lower than the max ...( .3 of a grain ) but ...they also only used a hollow based wadcutter , IMHO a flat based one would raise the pressure a wee bit as well as not expand to seal the bore as good ending with yup leading ,try cutting ur charge down to where it just barely functions the action and then work up a wee bit ( i'd still check to make sure ur seating/crimping isnt also sizing down even further )

  14. #14
    Boolit Bub
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    Yes, I also load with 148gr hollow base wadcutters from Precision Delta. I save those for 50 yard slow fire though as they cost a lot more than using the one's that I cast and lube myself.... Senior Citizen on a Fixed Income and all that sort of thing. If shooting in a NRA sanctified match then I will use the hollow base wadcutters for the entire thing.

    The bass-akwards loaded bevel base wadcutters are used for practice and the 25 yard timed and rapid fire phases. I also use them in my 1954 vintage K-38 for "Steel Challenge" matches.... nothing like a good ol' bunny fart load when it comes to making steel go "tink". I keep 120gr RN bullets loaded in the speed loaders though as they go in a heck of a lot easier than wadcutters when I'm in a bit of a hurry.

    What leading that remains after a couple hundred rounds is easy enough to remove. Just a plain ol' bronze brush will take it out in 25 or 30 strokes... (I use the rifle length brush, not the pistol length). I've found that by adding a few copper stands from a Chore Boy brand copper scrub thing that it takes what leading there is out a heck of a lot faster. Had one of those Lewis Lead Removers sometime in the distant past but haven't seen it in years. Chore Boy pads are a lot less expensive and work quite well.

    Interesting that the Speer #11 manual should list 3.2 as max for HP-38 and 3.3 max for W-231. Granted that's only 1/10th grain difference but they are actually the same powder !!! Come from the same hopper, just put into different containers.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master

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    I load the Lyman 35891 button out, seated to the last groove near the nose. BAC or liquid alox.
    BAC for everything else. Been in my lubrisizer for several years now. I love it,

    Shiloh
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Dog View Post

    Interesting that the Speer #11 manual should list 3.2 as max for HP-38 and 3.3 max for W-231. Granted that's only 1/10th grain difference but they are actually the same powder !!! Come from the same hopper, just put into different containers.
    there may of been manufacturer's differences years ago , granted prolly supplied by st.marks but ...every lot of powder will be different from the next one it's just the nature of the beast , i oft hear that my fav rifle powder ( h414) is the same exact thing as ww760 ....ummm ok then why did my best load's group open up when i loaded the exact same charge of ww760 ???? i'll admit that today they mite indeed be from the same hopper with no different man.'s additive but when i first started out loading and since - especially when doing research as to what powder is best for many of my barrels in the older manuals different load weights of ww 760 and h414 gave equal pressure .....today since hodgdon owns both they list identical ....ditto with h110 and 296 yet it hasnt always been so as glancing thru old manuals (with pressure and velocities listed) show that often they are close but in the past never were the same [shrugz] ye olde caveat applies "when changing any component of a known load reduce charge weight and work safely back up " btw ? my first foray into ummm real pistol reloading was a factory recipe followed to the letter -even factory primed cases all fresh...guess what ? way too hot ,yet the powder was listed as ww296 ....blew primers....very hard extraction ,was also listed as use exactly as shown, i've learned alot since then ,including at the time the same charge weight of h110 was hot but didnt blow primers ,
    back to the subject at hand ....every bullseye shooting HB wadcutter i have seen is some really really soft alloy ( if it is even alloy lolz ) if u mentioned it i missed it does ur premade's lead the same way ? if not i'm still going to believe it's a sizing issue
    Last edited by fryboy; 06-15-2010 at 06:38 PM. Reason: fat fingers typo lolz( blaringly obvious)

  17. #17
    Boolit Bub
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    Going to have to wait until early July on that one.... won't be at another NRA sanctioned match until the 11th. Will be firing nothing but the Precision Delta hollow base wadcutters there... 90 rounds so any tendency to lead using their bullets should show.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master



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    I've used BAC ever since I started casting my own. Excellent for pistol as well as gas-checked rifle loads upto 2200fps.

    Bruce
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  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    I think i saw it mentioned but it is worth a repeat-- if your alloy is too hard for that low velocity it can and will lead-- bac is certainly good lube--ac ww or range lead with a little tin should be good to go -- so that leaves the fit issues --

  20. #20
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    HOLY COW!!!!! Evil, do you think you're using enough crimp??????

    If you apply any more it will practically seal the case! I think that could be a big part of your problem, squeezing the boolits down as they're fired. It takes a lot of pressure to break a crimp like that, why don't you pull a few of those (assuming you have a kinetic puller) and mic them to see if they're getting skinny on the way out.

    Fryboy: He mentioned Model 52-2 in the original post.

    Gear
    You can't fix Stupid, but you can occasionally head it off before it hurts something. --Stephen Adams

    To universalize one's experience and state it as the norm is always thin ice on which to stand.--CharGar

    Being able to separate the wheat from the chaff has always been a valuable skill in all of life's activities. --Bwana


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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check