Fluxing with Sawdust

[songdog53]

What about adding some wax or old panlube in with sawdust? I use ladle to cast bullets with and have any of u ya'll tried this? I haven't yet but thinking seriously about it.

[cbrick]

Yes, tried that and many other things including olive oil (highly flammable). Have I improved on plain old sawdust. NO! The best I've done is introduce things that gunk up the inside of the pot which sawdust does not.

Here it is explained much better than I could.

From Ingot to Target - Chapter 4 - Fluxing

Or here:

The Simple Act of Fluxing

Hope this helps,

Rick

[Longwood]

Has anyone tried walnut shells or the wood pellets?
All of the sources for free sawdust in these parts is from fake lumber that is made from/with glue and often coated with who knows what.
Has anyone tried smashing the pellets and using in place of sawdust? I have lots of clean ashes from the pellet stove and wonder how it will work.

[Longwood]

I scored a 5 gallon bucket of wheel weights Saturday and have been sorting and smelting.
Lots of the new zinc weights but I checked them pretty close and the ones that I could not read, I checked with side cutters.
Yesterday, everything went normally and I got about 35 lbs of good clean ingots.
Today, I did the bottom half of the bucket - in a 12" stainless pot - and turned the heat down as soon as I skimmed off the clips. I dropped in about a tablespoon of paraffin and stirred it in. I got quite a bit of oatmeal which I skimmed and saved then the melt got a blue layer on it. I skimmed it (it took about three or four skims of about 1/2 Tablespoon) and saved the metal in case it is not cadmium or some other bad. The pot now has a very thin golden tint on top so I shut it down to go see if I can find some info and maybe a better flux.

Here are some questions.
Was the oatmeal zinc or aluminum? I think I have some Muriatic around here someplace. I read that I can use it to test for zinc but don't know how to tell if I had aluminum. I would think - not - on the aluminum.
Or,,,was it the tin floating to the top?
Is the blue and gold, cadmium or worse, and how should I get it out of the melt if it is? I seem to remember a thread about using sulfur.

I know this info has probably been covered before and I have been reading and reading but there is a lot of areas to cover and I keep getting side tracked and loosing my place.
I just turned 69 (yeah I am amazed too) and my brain just doesn't keep all of it anymore.
Thanks a million too everyone of you guys that share your valuable knowledge.
:kissarse:

[Doby45]

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/...ad.php?t=63550

[Longwood]

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/...ad.php?t=63550

What took you so long?
Thanks.

[lbaize3]

I have a planner that I have used in the past on various types of wood. The thin shavings of wood are placed on top of the melt and lit with a match. When the fire burns out I mix the carbon into the melt and it does a fantastic job of mixing the alloy. But the question I have to ask is why not simply use charcoal bricketts that you have crushed? Or any manner of coal or charcoal? And how about using the corncob that we use in our tumblers?

[Longwood]

Thanks again Doby.
That is what I had read parts of but could not remember where it was.
I just finished reading all 6 pages word, for word and had my questions answered.

[Doby45]

That thread is awesomeness.

[Ohio Rusty]

One thing I have discovered over the years is dirt and ash can indeed get 'trapped' to the bottom or sides of the pot. Even though it is supposed to burn up, it won't completely disappear unless it is removed. It is my speculation that the weight of the lead pins it to the bottom like Hulk Hogan would pin a pencil-neck wrestler to a mat. I have stirred the pot after cleaning out everything only to have embers reappear on the surface and start glowing when they were exposed to air. I wondered where they came from .....

So now when I think it's clean, I scrape the bottom and the sides with a wooden paint stick. I'm surprised when more dirt and ash comes to the surface to be scooped off. When you think it is clean ..... give it one more good stirrin' just in case something is trapped you can't see.
Ohio Rusty ><>

[dragonrider]

"I wondered where they came from" "I scrape the bottom and the sides with a wooden paint stick"
There might be a clue in there someplace!!!

[gray wolf]

OK-- so the lead is clean and has a mirror bright look to it, not a speck to be seen.
Now we take our metal spoon and scrape the sides and bottom of the pot.
Well what do you know, specks of dirt and some other debris floating on the surface
So how did that happen ? simple you say, it was stuck to the sides and bottom of the pot.
I released it with the spoon when I scraped the sides and bottom of the pot.
Try it again and you will find all the spots inside the pot that you missed the first time.
Well OK I am going to get every speck of dirt out of this pot, so on and on with the spoon.
Scrape and skim, scrape and skim, at last after a half hour there is no more dirt floating on the surface of the melt and we are sure it is clean. Well it just may be so, at least clean enough for making bullets.
Now take that paint stick and stir and scrape again well darn! look at all that dirt and those small specks of dirt. I guess I missed some with that spoon I was scraping with.
But that old stick sure brought them to the surface.
DID IT ? or did it create more ? regardless if they floated to the top or not, there in there.
Now take a look at the end of that stick, all charred up and burnt isn't it.
So lets think about it, wear did the dirt come from?
If you say they broke off the the burned end of the charred stick you get the prize.
Is it good ? bad ? I don't know, but I do know the stick put dirt in the melt., and it will every time it hits the pot and little pieces break off.
So I think ,ZZZZZZZZZ well it's not dirt, it's Carbon and that's a good thing Eh.
Well carbon is a good thing--it cleans our metal. But the little specks can get trapped in the melt and find there way into the bullets.
So what do we do about it ? I am not sure since everything I just wrote is speculation on my part. But it makes sense, to me anyway.
So do we not use a wooden stick ? after all if we use saw dust and it's posed to be so good then why do we have to follow it up with a burned up old wooden stick ? Isn't all that wood from the saw dust enough ?
Don't know that either, What can it do that a metal spoon can't do ?
as long as we used the saw dust to begin with.
I wouldn't vacuum my floor and then dump the bag on the carpet.
Here is what has worked for me the last few times I cast.
I start with clean looking ingots, Metal is melted and I can see a little dross and some other dirt on top of the melt. I cover it with 3/4 inch of thin wood shavings. I don't light it off because I don't want to fry up my thermometer that I wish to leave in the pot.
I hold off for the 5 or 6 minutes it takes for the saw dust to get brown and dry.
At this point I believe I have enough burnt wood in my pot without the need to add more.
So I push the burned saw dust down with the metal spoon and do all the stirring with it.
Then I take off the burned saw dust and go over the top of the melt with the tip of the spoon. It now has a bright mirror finish on top, no specks of dirt. I scrape the sides and bottom again with the soon and re clean the surface. Put on another 1/2 inch or so of saw dust and leave it alone, This is for a bottom pour pot.
I am not saying don't use a wooden stick, so no need to defend it's use. I am only saying that is can put small pieces of Carbon in the pot that can get trapped in the melt and make it's way into the bullets. One reason I didn't scrape the bottom of my pot with a wooden stick.
After all what hits the bottom of the pot ? the bottom of the stick--right ? Well what is the most fragile part of the stick ? the bottom of it. The part that is the most burned, at least mine is.

[ColColt]

For newcomers to sawdust fluxing this thread is sort of confusing. There are those that curse it and others that highly laud it's use. It all leads me to scratching my head as whether to use it or not. Today a guy at work brought me in a plastic grocery store bag full of super clean sawdust and I was going to use it this Friday(my day off) in a long casting session.

Some say not to sir the bottom of a bottom pour pot and clog the spout while others say all sawdust will float to the top once consumed on the top. It's all kind of confusing and I'm wondering why such a variance of opinion with this flux. Wood is wood and you'd think everyone would have the same results but, in reading these posts I'm not so sure about that.

[Doby45]

The difference is you can NOT push the sawdust down to the bottom of your pot. BUT, you can take and touch the bottom of the pot with your charred stick and when you do you trap some of those broken and charred pieces under the lead. These charred and broken pieces eventually migrate to your pour spout. The key is "Don't touch the bottom of your pot with the wooden stir stick". If you feel the need to scrap the bottom of the pot use a flat piece of metal to scrap the bottom and that should break the stuff off the bottom of the pot and allow it to "float" up.

[truckjohn]

Sawdust is very handy for 1 basic thing.... and that's getting your "Slushy" metallic dross to powder up like it's supposed to..... It's not so good when you mix ash, carbon, and the like down into the melt.... Somehow, it ends up stuck down in there and causes weird problems.... I used a stick to stir once... Never doing that again - it was the ONLY time I have ever had carbon and trash in my boolits...

If you are bottom pouring - it is safe to leave a good layer of ash on top of the melt to insulate it... It also helps make less dross.... Ladle casting... not so much.

Want a good, clean melt - empty your pot after every session. On a new casting session, before you cast after your melt is good and liquid.... scrape the sides of your pot with a metal rod or steel scraper. During the casting session - don't fuss with it. When you stop for a break... scrape the sides and bottom good.... Carefully rake floating trash over to one side and scoop it out. Gently stir the metal - but don't slosh it around. Stirring helps float the dross... Sloshing and violent splashing agitation only makes more dross and pulls chunks of trash down into the lead.

Thanks

[ColColt]

I just recently bought a Lee 4-20 and the inside looks more like Teflon than my old Lyman which is rough looking cast iron. Will stirring with anything metal with the Lee "scrape" or scar the inside? Silly question, yes, I know but that's the way the pot looks inside.

[Doby45]

Nah, you ain't gonna hurt it brother. It isn't teflon it is just clean steel.

[ColColt]

I reckon looks are deceiving. It sho nuf looked like Teflon to me. I was fixin' to cook some soup in it. Being an ol' southern boy, you might enjoy this poem.

Collards is green,
my dog's name is Blue
and I'm so lucky
to have a sweet thang like you.

Yore hair is like cornsilk
a-flapping in the breeze.
Softer than Blue's
and without all them fleas.

You move like the bass,
which excite me in May.
You ain't got no scales
but I luv you anyway.

Yo're as satisfy'n as okry
jist a-fry'n in the pan.
Yo're as fragrant as "snuff"
right out of the can.

You have some'a yore teeth,
for which I am proud;
I hold my head high
when we're in a crowd.

On special occasions,
when you shave under yore arms,
well, I'm in hawg heaven,
and awed by yore charms.

Still them fellers at work,
they all want to know,
what I did to deserve
such a purdy, young doe.

Like a good roll of duct tape
yo're there fer yore man,
to patch up life's troubles
and fix what you can.

Yo're as cute as a junebug
a-buzzin' overhead.
You ain't mean like those far ants
I found in my bed.

Cut from the best cloth
like a plaid flannel shirt,
you spark up my life
more than a fresh load of dirt.

When you hold me real tight
like a padded gunrack,
my life is complete;
Ain't nuttin' I lack.

Yore complexion, it's perfection,
like the best vinyl sidin'.
despite all the years,
yore age, it keeps hidin'.

Me 'n' you's like a Moon Pie
with a RC cold drank,
we go together
like a skunk goes with stank.

Some men, they buy chocolate
for Valentine's Day;
They git it at Wal-Mart,
it's romantic that way.

Some men git roses
on that special day
from the cooler at Kroger.
That's impressive," I say.

Some men buy fine diamonds
from a flea market booth.
"Diamonds are forever,"
they explain, suave and couth.

But for this man, honey,
these won't do.
Cause yor'e too special,
you sweet thang you.

I got you a gift,
without taste nor odor,
more useful than diamonds......
IT'S A NEW TROLL'N MOTOR

[Doby45]

Now THAT is a pretty good idea. I betcha I could cook a ramen in mine.

[ColColt]

Yep, it's worth a try. A little garlic and some pepper, through in a fried baloney "samidge" and a tall glass of ice tea.