First .45 ACP, failure and potential success?

[AKsoldier]

Well....Ok, so here goes: I have cast hundereds of boolits for my .45 ACP using a Lee 228 gr. mould. I learned the mould, in terms of temp, cool time, etc. until I felt I was producing a useable boolit.

I was doing all of this while waiting for delivery of my .45 ACP - a commemorative pistol from Para Ordnance for my brigade for our deployment to Afghanistan.

Long story short - the pistol was late, and my cast boolits weren't. I used the Lee 228 gr. two-hole mold and cast about 200 "acceptable" (to my un-educated eye) boolits.

I used LLA lube, (tumbled) then sized the boolits in a Lee sizing die. I then loaded them in miscellaneous cases, using two different powders with just above starting loads.

The results were disgusting! The pistol jammed with four different factory loads, then locked up tight with my hand-loads using my cast boolits. My gunsmith achieved the temporary fix, and I began brainstorming a solution.

Here's my thoughts: The LLA left a VERY sticky residue on the boolits. Maybe that is causing the hang-up in the chamber? So - how do I eliminate that? WD - 40!

I just spent about two hours painstakingly rubbing each and every one of my hand-loaded .45 ACP boolits with WD-40. They are all now very slick, and I suspect they will feed much better.

I also thoroughly cleaned the pistol, and burned through 60 rounds of factory 230 gr. hard-ball. It seems my gun needs a break-in period. It is functioning much better now. Only two jams in over 60 factory rounds this time.

My question: Will the WD-40 help? Or should I throw away the ammo I loaded and start again? I am no novice to handloading - over 15 years experience, and this is my first real failure.

Most of the problem lies in my inexperience with cast boolits. I need more education!

[cricco]

I would try adding some Johnson's Paste Wax to your LLA. You could also try a little Mica dust.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
New weapons can be a pain ! Break in is VERY Important.. ESpecially IF you are depending on that weapon to keep your hide intact.
Boolits... Are they the correct diameter ? Remove the barrrel and insert a loaded round. Will a loaded cartrige chamber without any pushing ? If not the boolit might be too FAT. Also check a resized NOT LOaded brass and see if that will chamber. Your chamber may be on the TIGHT end of the specs.
Take a as lubed boolit and tap it (with a wood dowel) into the chamber-throat about the length of the boolit then from the muzzle end tap that boolit back out. That diameter is your minimum as cast size you need for that .45. Now me I would be looking to cast .001 to .002 over that diameter IF that loaded round will chamber without any hard pushing to chamber it.
Also is your loaded round too long.. any reloading manual will tell you the MAX Overall Length. If you are over that your boolit may be bumping up against the rifling way to much.
Those are some of the factors I have come up against in my reloading for the 1911.
If you are working within those parameters your cast boolits should chamber without any exterior lube...
And round nose boolits will cycle much easier. I polish the ramp on all my .45 1911 as that helps other nose designs cycle much easier.

[Bret4207]

I think you'll need to get the gun broken in and determine what it will shoot group wise before you start tearing at your hair. Bottom feeders can be finicky and need proper lube and a little time for the parts to mate properly. Then you can go to cast. I would thoroughly clean the gun and get the barrel spotlessly clean of all copper and powder fouling. I'd look through the posts here on boolit fit, choose a proven mid range load and expect to put the first 10-15 shots down range to condition the barrel. That's when you'll see how the gun handles that boolit with that load in that alloy. Then come back and we can help you fine tune things. Remember- fit always comes first with cast.

On the Mule Snot (LLA)- simply dust the loaded boolits or loaded rounds with a light powder and the sticky/tackyness will disappear. I've used Motor Mica, graphite, even cornstarch. I doubt very much the Mule Snot was causing problems as you describe and wiping the boolits with WD40 gives the chance for powder contamination (slight) and removes what may be needed lube. Give you're gun a chance to break in and use a mid range load.

[DLCTEX]

If you find that the loaded rounds are oversize for your chamber you may want to consider a Lee factory crimp die. The FCD sizes the loaded round to max, specs. Some here curse the FCD, but the complaint is due to it sizing down large boolits, which can be a plus in this case. Just run the rounds through the die backed off so as to not crimp, if they are already crimped, and it will remove any bulges or oversizes. You don't state what brass you used, but if the brass was fired in a gun with an unsupported chamber (Glock and a few others) you may have a bulged case that most sizing dies will not remove completely. Lee has a bulge buster kit for cheap that will remove the bulge even on loaded rounds.

[docone31]

New pistols need breaking in. Not so revolvers, but slides do.
I do not like LLA castings. I prefer to size and pan lube.
You might also try different OALs on your casting.
Since you are making your castings, you are also going to have to find what the Para likes.
It is worth it though.
Try going a little deeper into the case with the casting.

[bigboredad]

you can use baby powder to get rid of the sticky crud left on the boolit. I take the gun apart and use the barrel to determine the oal as I reload just drop a round in and adjust the the seating depth. I also have a lee factory crimp die for my .45acp and have not had the problems that the others have had and it does take all the bulges out and make chambering much easier ymmv. good luck.
p.s.
sounds like a cool pistol please post a pic so the rest of us can enjoy and thank you very much for your service to protect us and our country

[mdi]

I have heard of feeding probs with the Lee round nose w/1R ogive. Seems this "radius" bullet hangs up more than the 2R design. Also I would think extra slick cases won't grab the chamber walls when fired, allowing for "setback", or the case slamming into the bolt face(?).

[StarMetal]

Get a luber/sizer and quit that poor mule snot system. Never used it in my life and I'll never use it. Just my opinion boys.

[fryboy]

umm after reading all the replies ( and the questions ) i have to agree that ur piece needs breaking in ,once that is accomplished u'll be much better in tune with it as well as knowing what to expect from it accuracy wise
as for the LLA on the boolit nose ,mineral spirits on a rag , if u dont try using recluse's version i would at least advise cutting lee's stuff down also with mineral spirits , at least 25% and applying two thin coats versus 1 heavier coat , i have the same mold , plus the 230 tc one and a coupla others ,the 228 has worked flawlessly in every 45 i have tried it in ( not so the truncated cone one ) i do question the crimp tho ,this is often where folks get into trouble or rather perplexing thoughts ,too much resizes the boolit not enough can cause jams ,often times starting loads may not function the recoil operated feeding ,there's about a billion threads on 45's,prolly wouldnt hurt to scan a few of'em ,g'luck !

edit for add.... umm star ? if u never used it and never will how can u justifiably bash it ? one would have to of used it to form an honest opinion as opposed to a biased i never tried it but dont like it ?

[StarMetal]

umm after reading all the replies ( and the questions ) i have to agree that ur piece needs breaking in ,once that is accomplished u'll be much better in tune with it as well as knowing what to expect from it accuracy wise
as for the LLA on the boolit nose ,mineral spirits on a rag , if u dont try using recluse's version i would at least advise cutting lee's stuff down also with mineral spirits , at least 25% and applying two thin coats versus 1 heavier coat , i have the same mold , plus the 230 tc one and a coupla others ,the 228 has worked flawlessly in every 45 i have tried it in ( not so the truncated cone one ) i do question the crimp tho ,this is often where folks get into trouble or rather perplexing thoughts ,too much resizes the boolit not enough can cause jams ,often times starting loads may not function the recoil operated feeding ,there's about a billion threads on 45's,prolly wouldnt hurt to scan a few of'em ,g'luck !

edit for add.... umm star ? if u never used it and never will how can u justifiably bash it ? one would have to of used it to form an honest opinion as opposed to a biased i never tried it but dont like it ?

Oh I have it and done experiments with it. Lee caters to those that can't afford the more expensive line of reloading tools. It's a cheapo lube system and it does under certain restrictions work.

The bullets the poster is using don't have to have the noses lubed, that's one of the fall backs of LLA. No sense in putting that sticky stuff all over the bullet.

[243winxb]

The ogive on Lees bullet may be the problem. Or the bullet needs to be seated deeper. Measure loaded rounds on the bullet in front of the case mouth. It should read .450" to chamber freely. No wd-40 ty. Tumble lube -size- tumble lube before loading. If a bullet sized to .452" does not feed, you may have to size to .451" . Dont forget to put a nice taper crimp on the loaded rounds.

[fryboy]

i totally agree with the last part of ur comment but dip lubing is ...a labor of love ( it has to be for those that do it lolz ) i'm old skool enough that i like lube in the grooves , tho i did play with moly'n the whole boolit a few times , i never did like the mess of the stuff tho for what i tried it on it did work and rather well ( including a well defined mess lolz ) i tried the JPW straight as well didnt care for the mess with either singularly ,mixed as in recluse's recipe was much better !! alox is a decent lube (in most forms ) but i never cared for it as IMHO no matter what form it's messy at best ,the aroma ...well it's a learned like ( or dislike lolz )

[StarMetal]

Fry,

It's ok for certain applications. One would be the TL bullets it was designed for. I use it on the noses of certain bore riding bullets because the single lube groove on the one I have doesn't carry enough lube for the entire bore length.

I understand too that some are on limited funds.

If a cast load is a good one and it presents no functioning problems, I don't see what it can't be used for breaking in a gun. I've done it many times. Now some feel that jacketed will break the bore in better.

A round nose in a 45 acp should be just about perfect in cycling.

[MtGun44]

Watch out for WD-40, it kills primers.

Please use the search function and read a few of my old posts on .45 ACP seating depth
and crimp setup. Missionary has you started down the right road. This is not rocket science
and if you follow what I posted, you WILL get good functioning. Just no time right now
to type it all again.

Alox is a marginal lube system, but the .45 ACP is one of the calibers that it may work
fairly well with.

Try seating length to match the LOA and nose contour (by eyeball) of a milspec .45 ACP ball
round.

PLEASE avoid the Lee FCD.

Bill

[AKsoldier]

WOW, thanks for the help folks! I didn't even have time to read it all, but here's an update and a few more details: I tried chambering another of my cast rounds after the WD-40 and it's stuck again. I'm thinking there's something else going on here.

I understand break-in, I've been told 1911's in particular like to have a fair amount of use before they start functioning well. I plan to "bite the bullet" (pun intended) and invest in about 500 230 gr. hardball bullets to load up and get it loosened up and working. My cast boolits need another look. Someone mentioned bullet profile, and ogive - I completely agree, and I understand why that is important for an auto. But the Lee mould I'm using looks to the naked eye to be an almost exact duplicate of most 230 gr. hardball. When I was loading them, I used a factory loaded round with 230 hardball, and measured OAL, then matched that with my cast boolits.

I think I'll get it broke in for now, and re-visit the cast boolit idea again later. In the mean time, this gives me an excuse to acquire another wheel-gun that can shoot .45 auto. I've always liked the Ruger Bisley stainless convertible.... Or maybe I should get the kit that will allow me to run them through my S&W 460...

Edit: I forgot to mention, all of my boolits were ran through a Lee sizing die. (.452) after lubing. I'm wondering now if I need a .451. (243 winxb)

[fryboy]

i'm suspecting crimp or boolit seating depth...u kno the old trick of using the barrel for a gauge that should narrow it down ,the 228 works great for me it's the 230 tc that doesnt like one feed ramp lolz

[35remington]

First, I'm pretty intimately familiar with the 228-1R. And no, it ain't in any way a duplicate of factory ball. Look a little more closely. It has more bearing length and a shorter nose length than regular ball. 1R means 1 radius ogive. Ball or 230 FMJ's are two radius ogive.

Your eyes aren't attuned to small differences in bullet appearance yet, and how that affects proper overall length and functioning. We'll get you up to speed.

Don't set its overall length by a milspec round. The short nose of the 228-1R means that if loaded to the same length as factory ball, too much bearing surface will be out of the case, and the gun won't lock up because the bullet will hit the leade (rifling origin) and prevent full chambering.

"The pistol jammed with four different factory loads, then locked up tight with my hand-loads using my cast boolits."

Ding Ding Ding!!! Just what you found to be true!

"I tried chambering another of my cast rounds after the WD-40 and it's stuck again. I'm thinking there's something else going on here."

Once again, confirmation of what I've just stated.

Please post your overall length.

Correct, for my guns to allow the cartridge to chamber properly, is in the range of 1.210" to 1.220."

Second, what magazines are you using? Please don't tell me they're Shooting Stars. Or Triple K's, or some other gawd awful magazine. Shooting Stars are predisposed toward problems because of an excessively weak magazine spring.

Triple K's? Well, one look at those and you know the "genius" who designed them didn't know a damn thing about a 1911.

Telling us the exact magazine and type, and the shape of the feed lips. A picture would be helpful.

Third and finally; describe the exact cartridge position when it jams; whether the case rim was fully under the extractor, case nearly in the chamber, etc. Just saying "it jammed" doesn't convey any information. Describing the exact cartridge position when it jams will give big clues to what's causing it.

Without those "big clues" we will find it harder to diagnose, and a "good break in" might not be the answer to the problem.

A gun that suffers multiple jams right off the bat doesn't need a "good break in"......what's causing it is so out of sync that shooting it more ain't gonna help it start functioning better.

You problems are a lot different than what a simple "wearing in" would solve. A "break in jam" is a few minor hiccups, not a situation where it malfunctions as often as it feeds.

[StarMetal]

AK,

Here's a tip for you. Take the barrel out of your pistol and use it for a case gauge to check your cartridge and bullet seating. Try the cartridge in it and it should drop in easy and the head of the case should be flush with the barrel hood extension. Simple as that. They don't fit there they won't fit cycling, they fit there you can bet they'll fit cycling.

You don't need to buy 500 hard ball loads. When you get your cast cartridges right, they will break it in. If you want you can load them just a tad hotter to ensure complete cycling then after break in cut back to where you were.

[flinchnjerk]

The Lee 228-1R's profile doesn't match that of a milspec round; it's "fatter" further out toward the nose. If your COAL is that of the milspec, it's too long. You say that your rounds get "stuck"; as in you can't extract an unfired round? That's because the fat ogive's getting stuffed into the rifling or leade. When you do get the round ripped from the pistol, look for rifling marks on the ogive. You'll find 'em.
As has been suggested, pull your barrel and drop a round into it. My guess is that the cartridge will protude past the barrel tang by at least the thickness of the rim. Seat the boolit to such depth as to have the round a hair below the end of the tang, and I suspect that happiness will ensue.