I am about to give up casting

[walker77]

I have been trying casting for almost a year. I keep having leading issues. But i figured at first it was just a learning curve. This weekend i tried shooting my 44 mag again and its still leading. Im about to just say screw it. This is where i stand

S&W 629

9.0 unique with large pistol primers

.430 barrel

.433 reamed cylinder

Im using wheel weight with solder (from walmart) that is 98% tin and they are water dropped

lyman 429421 Shimmed dropping bullets at .433

I have been using Carnauba Red, but switched to something called jakes lube i found on ebay because the carnauba sticks to everything, including the bottom of the bullet. It seems the leading has got worse since i changed, maybe my imagination. Anyone else try this lube?

I am going to try gas checks, but if that doesnt work, thats it. Is there anyone reading this in the kansas city area that could help me? Thanks guys

[Fugowii]

I've yet to find a combo that doesn't lead some. I've learned to accept what I do get and deal with
it. I use Kroil and a jag with choreboy to loosen up the leading and then patches soaked in the
Kroil. It's more work than I would like but it isn't too bad. My biggest problem I have had is with my
M28 and the lead is landing on the cylinder and it is a beeatcchhhh to remove. What powder and
load are you using in the 629? I'm changing my powder on my M28 to see if that will cut down on
the leading.

[Cherokee]

Tell us about the load you are using as that may help in identifying the problem. You say the barrel is .430 so this means you slugged it ? Where is the leading: forcing cone, down the barrel, near the muzzle ? How much leading ? More info will help.

[Blammer]

take one of your loaded rounds and use an inertia bullet puller and pull the bullet from the brass and measure the bullet diameter. Is it still .433?

stop water dropping them, let them air cool, have you tried that yet?

[jrayborn]

Well I am no expert, I have had good luck recently by simply switching powders in .45 long colt. I was getting pretty heavy leading within the first couple inches of barrel (4" Ruger Redhawk) using Laser Cast bullets and Unique. I started low and worked up to a heavy charge and just couldn't get the lead to go away. Read somewhere about trying a powder with a different impulse so I decided to give 2400 a chance and what a difference.

I am loading 19 grains and get real good accuracy, about 1100 fps and honestly no leading. This took me over a year to get worked out too. Every time I read about someone getting no leading I figured they were getting some and I never believed you could shoot without at least a little lead in the bore. Trust me it is possible.

Lesson here is to not give up! Keep reading and looking for help, you WILL figure it out.

Good luck!!

Jon

[StarMetal]

How much solder (see you said it was 98 % tin) are you putting in with those WW's? If more then 2 % there's an issue right there.

My load was WW's water dropped over 10 grains of Unique when I had my 44 mag Smith. It was the Saeco 240 TC nose bullet gas checked.

[anachronism]

Is this the only gun you've tried cast in? S&W revolvers are famous for thread choke. If you have it, and it's not dealt with, you don't stand a chance. Have you tried any other loads? 9.0 gr of Unique is well below the starting charge in My older Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. You might simply need to build a bigger fire under your bullets.

[walker77]

How much solder (see you said it was 98 % tin) are you putting in with those WW's? If more then 2 % there's an issue right there.

My load was WW's water dropped over 10 grains of Unique when I had my 44 mag Smith. It was the Saeco 240 TC nose bullet gas checked.

The package doesnt give a weight. It comes in one of those small coiled tubes, i just drop the whole thing in it.

[walker77]

Is this the only gun you've tried cast in? S&W revolvers are famous for thread choke. If you have it, and it's not dealt with, you don't stand a chance. Have you tried any other loads? 9.0 gr of Unique is well below the starting charge in My older Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. You might simply need to build a bigger fire under your bullets.

I just tried my first cast of 9mm this weekend through my sig P6 and got a lot of leading in it from only running one mag through it. But im not about to dismiss that yet, because it could be a velocity issue, and that could be my problem with the 44 mag too. I just bought a chronograph, but forgot to take it with me this weekend.

[walker77]

take one of your loaded rounds and use an inertia bullet puller and pull the bullet from the brass and measure the bullet diameter. Is it still .433?

stop water dropping them, let them air cool, have you tried that yet?

Keep in mind its a shimmed mold, so the bullet is only .433 at its largest point.

[Heavy lead]

I'm thinking you need to have someone send you some .434 boolits to try. The last Smith 44 I had, had a .4285 throat, that .433 throat is a hard one to fill. I'm sure someone would help you out with that if asked. I would, but I just don't have a mould that casts that big.

[littlejack]

anacronism:
What is "thread choke"? I don't even know what it is, but my 57 must have it. I have shot ww's in it since it was new in 1972 and it has always leaded. I have learned to live with it. Now that I use the "Choreboy" method of cleaning, it is not a problem at all. I don't even use a solvent, and with a dozen strokes, all of the lead is gone. I would recommend that everyone get a Choreboy.
I just bought a new Uberti "Evil Roy" 45 Colt a couple of months ago, and the leading is nonexistant after a shooting session. Go figure?
Jack

[RobS]

walker77:

First off let me say it is not a velocity issue; it is a pressure issue more so, but many times as the velocity increases so does the pressure. Bullet fit is something you have a good concept of it sounds like.

Now, I have a few more questions on the 44 mag. Cylinder throats to bore's groove diameter sounds good, but 1. do you have a constriction in that bore anywhere? Simply make a tight jag if you have one and put a patch or patches over the jag, oil it up, and push it through the barrel. You shouldn't feel any tight spots. Take special note and feel where the barrel screws into the frame and also near the forcing cone. If you have no constrictions, everything is smooth and consistent feeling in the bore your gun is yet closer to being put together well enough. 2. The last thing is to check the barrels throat (where the forcing cone and the rifling start). Simply put yourself in a slug and press it from the chamber end with a piece of wood through the forcing cone. I fold up a rag to make sure I don't mess up the crown of the barrel as you will have to push pretty hard to make impressions. When you first start to see the rifling marks on the slug you went in far enough, just measure this part of the slug. Of course you will have to take a wooden dowl from the muzzle end to push the slug back out. Sometimes this can be larger than the barrel and can be the start for gas blow by. I doubt this is an issue however.

Should all this check out and assuming the bore is not rough we are down to the casting/sizing-lubing/reloading. I would tell you that you are probably not crazy on the Jakes lube vs the Carnauba Red with the Jakes giving you more leading if the Jakes is the Moly or Purple Cercin as it is a hard lube. Should the Jakes lube be the 50/50 lube it should be ok…………I bet it’s not the 50/50 since you don’t like sticky.

You stated that you beagled your mold to drop a bullet at .433 and I ask is this bullet .433 all the way around the bullet? If it is not and is the same diameter or under the .430 bore there is another possibility for gas blow by to occur.........especially if the bullet is super hard as it will not be able to obturate or slug up to the bore's diameter as easily.

Now a very important one here is after you seat and crimp the bullet what is that bullet doing? Blammer has it right about the possibilities of the bullet being swaged down during the seating and crimping stage of reloading. I wrote up a lengthy thread not too long ago talking about this specifically and how it related to my experiences. You really need to seat and crimp a bullet and then pull that baby to see if it is still a good fit for your revolver. Make sure that you measure the very edge of the bullets base to make sure it is close to what you need for a bullet diameter. This was my problem all along with soft bullets has I was sizing them perfectly for my revolver and when I shot them I had leading that wouldn't stop.

There are two options here if your bullet is swaged down and since you are already maxed out with your bullet diameter (beagled the mold already) then sizing to a larger bullet to combat the swage during the seating and crimping stage will not be an option. The other means to ensure your bullet will be of right diameter is to buy yourself an expander plug to open up the brass to a diameter that won't swage the bullet.

I originally chose to size my bullet larger so when the brass squeezed down the bullet it would be the right diameter, but ran into the problem of the front drive band (band outside the case)being too large to fit in my cylinder throats. I know own an expander die that is .001 smaller than my bullet diameter and it's a dream for my cast boolits.

Lastly powder selection is something that can give more issues when a bullet is undersized. A slower powder will work better as it will not have the higher pressures at the initial ignition, but rather lower pressures at the start and build as the bullet makes its way down the barrel. A faster powder will push a bullet harder into the forcing cone and into the start of the barrel due to the higher energy which can cause a bullet to skid on the lands but also the fast powder has higher pressures and gives for a greater chance of gas blow by. This doesn't happen with fast powders at lower end loads however as the pressures are not high enough to create a problem and a decent lube will combat most of the expanding gases. Faster powders create problems only when they are used to push mid house loads to upper end loads with a bullet that doesn't fit the revolver. I would consider your 9 grain Unique load a prime candidate to what I am saying here.

This is all a consideration to help out and is by no means an absolute.

FWIW

[Dan Cash]

Walker,
If you will send me a postal address, I will send you some fatter bullets to try. I think you are getting blowby.
Dan

[RobS]

Walker,
If you will send me a postal address, I will send you some fatter bullets to try. I think you are getting blowby.
Dan

I bet he is too.

[462]

Walker77,
I had leading problems with a S&W 624 (.44 Special), and, like you, was about to call it quits and shoot jacketed, only Nothing I did made any sort of improvement. Here's what, eventually, worked for me. You may get different results.

1. Size your boolits .001" over cylinder throat diameter. If you size smaller, the boolit may be leading in the throat, ergo, it will lead in the forcing cone and breech end of the barrel. (You didn't say where the leading is, so I'm just guessing that it's starting in the cylinder throat.) I enlarged a .431" sizer die to .433" to acommodate the .432" cylinder throats.

2. Switch to a slower powder. 2400 is perfect.

3. Air cool the boolits.

4. Try a mixture of 50/50 or 75/25 clip-on wheel weights/stick-on wheel weights.

5. Added tin is not necessary, unless you are getting poor fill out/ill defined shape.

Jake's lube has never let me down, in either handgun or rifle. No need to change. You don't say which lube you are using, but I mix one stick of his Purple Ceresin with half a stick of his Alox/beeswax.

Make one change at a time and inspect the results, before moving to the next. It may be impossible to eliminate all traces of leading, but you should be able to reduce it to the point where accuracy isn't effected when shooting 50-rounds, and clean is easy.

Finally, and this is the most important part: Don't give up! Now, go back and read the bold-face words again.

I know how frustrated you are feeling. I was, once. Hang in there, and with your fellow member's help, it will come right and you will be floating on air. All of this is part of the casting experience and will help you with other moulds and guns. You are not failing, you are learning what doesn't work. It's all positive.

Now, start anew and keep us informed of your progress.

[RobS]

Walker77,


Jake's lube has never let me down, in either handgun or rifle. No need to change. You don't say which lube you are using, but I mix one stick of his Purple Ceresin with half a stick of his Alox/beeswax. The mix I believe would work well. I actually work the other direction with Lar's Carnauba Red with about an 1/8 to 1/4 stick of his Commercial Red (stiffer lube that is not on his site) to make it so it isn't tacky

Make one change at a time and inspect the results, before moving to the next. Definately the way to go with this problem as one variable is easier work than several
.

And like was said: Don't give up just yet.

[walker77]

I just pulled one of the bullets and it was .432 at its largest part. I really dont know what to do to get larger bullets. Ive tried everything suggested on the site with the mold. I tried shimming it, i tried more tin for better fill. I just dont know..... And i am out of a job, so i dont have money to buy a custom mold, and too much time on my hands to not play around with the hobby.

[RobS]

What is that bullet at it's smallest diameter???

[walker77]

its .430