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Thread: Improving accuracy

  1. #41
    Boolit Master




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    Quote Originally Posted by 44man View Post
    A

    I heard too much cussing on ranges and even seen a guy wrap a $300 bow around a tree when he missed.
    These fools abound, and not just in the marksmanship sports. My son's FIL is one - has about 20 putters, and blames everything but himself when he doesn't get what he expects. Jim won't play with him any more - has seen him helicopter a putter across the green one time too often.
    A show of emotion is just that - a show. Concentrate on basics, and do the best we can, and press on...
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    One of the most endearing sights in the world is the vision of a naked good-looking woman leaving the bedroom to make breakfast. Bolivar Shagnasty (I believe that Lazarus Long also said it, but I can't find any record of it.)

  2. #42
    Boolit Master
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    Freind of mine worked as a caddy when he was a kid. One day his customer threw a whole set of clubs in the water, bag and all, and stomped off.
    My freind fished 'em out, cleaned 'em up and sold 'em. Nice tip.

  3. #43
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    I tried golf when I was young and never seen such a bad bunch. About 3 times was enough for me.
    It is not sport or fun, just how much money you can throw at it hoping to be a winner.
    Some shooting sports are the same and you need to be rich, not work for a living or be subsidized so you can shoot a million times a week. However, even those guys don't have the anger issues that golfers do.
    I really believe most shooters are a far better bunch of great guys and there are just a few that spoil things. They don't last long because after spending thousands, they never improve so they leave. A real sportsman never gives up, even with a cheap gun.
    It still comes down to your attitude and I have to say, resources. I have had to quit things I love from lack of funds.
    Even if you don't shoot with others, you can get good on the cheap and have fun.
    It is why I like all of you here.

  4. #44
    Boolit Master
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    Something that might help is targets marked with a discription of what caused the shot to "land" in a specific area on the target.

    I've seen these in the past, as an example if your aiming at the "bull" and your round hits at 8 O'clock the targe tells you if your pushing the gun sideways with your finger or "pushing"
    the shot out of the gun!

    I haven't seen these in a range or gun shop in awhile but I bought a target program from Cabella's a few years ago and it has this target on it and in both left and right handed configurations.

    If you can't find these on the web I'd be more than happy to print a bunch and sent them to you.

    Be aware these are set up to print on 8 1/2 x 11 sheets of paper but should be good enough to see easily out to 15 or 20 yards far enough to help you cure your problem.

    Let me know.

  5. #45
    Boolit Master wistlepig1's Avatar
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    Dry fire,Dry fire,Dry fire, Oh did I say dry fire!

    Please made sure the gun is not loaded, I have a friend that got to buy a new TV and almost a new Wife.

  6. #46
    Boolit Master deerslayer's Avatar
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    I got one of those from the target sticky on here
    Remember the average response time of a 911 call is over 4 minutes. The average response time of a .357 is around 1300 F.P.S.

  7. #47
    Boolit Master



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    What do your 25 Yard groups look like? How about some target pictures maybe we can see a pattern to improve our advise.

    Blacksmith

  8. #48
    Boolit Master






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    44 man hit on one of the most important things that ive learned. For years ive allways was told to take a breath and hold it when you shoot. That may work for rifle shooting off the bench but with a handgun you need to breath normaly. What i try to do is shoot when im exhaling as you tend to relax more at that time. the rest of his post is spot on too. Only thing id add is you need a consistant grip. Both in location of your hand and in grip tension. Also people have a tendency to try to see where there bullet is hitting imeditately after shooting and this causes poor follow through.
    Quote Originally Posted by 44man View Post
    All good information and the gun is good enough to hit some targets to 100 yards, not group shooting of course but it can clang steel down there.
    Two very important things mentioned above to work on. Never make the gun shoot as you wiggle past the bullseye and never jerk the trigger thinking about recoil. The first usually goes over the target and the second makes tater furrows in front of you.
    About breathing, I rarely hold my breath while attaining a sight picture, just breath slowly and normally. This cuts down on the shakes and blurred vision. Just before trigger break, then hold it.
    I shot IHMSA from Creedmore and always kept breathing until the last second.
    Once you get the hang of it, it is easy. Holding your breath for a long time with a hard trigger makes things worse at the time the gun is ready to go off. You just need to learn your trigger and even a hard, creepy trigger can be shot well.
    Use the pad of your finger and pull straight back, you would be surprised how many come here to shoot and stick their whole finger in the guard. The inside of your finger should not be touching the side of the gun.
    Point both thumbs at the target and use a slight push forward with the right hand and a slight pull back with the left.
    The most important thing is to ignore gun wiggle as long as the sight picture is around the center, just keep adding pressure. You should never know when the gun will go off and even the speed steel shooters remain in more control then you think. That is from tons of practice.
    Very few can hold still while aiming, those that can shoot thousands of rounds a day and have developed nerve and muscle strength control.
    I would laugh at myself trying to shoot off hand with a 10" barrel. The barrel would slowly dip down and I had to keep raising it. Now I have no problems but a light, short gun will wiggle like crazy because I got used to heavy revolvers.
    Every time you shoot a shot, stop and determine what you did wrong and correct it right away. Work on that for the next shots.
    A few shots done right is better then 100 done wrong because you don't want the bad habits to become ingrained, they get harder and harder to recognize and cure. Shoot one shot and sit down to think about it before shooting another. After you remove each mistake, one at a time, you can increase speed.
    Don't get discouraged. Pick through these answers from the guys and ask yourself which ones you were doing wrong, write them down if you must and set the list on the shooting bench.
    Soldier of God, sixgun junky, Retired electrical lineman. My office was a 100 feet in the air, closer to God the better

  9. #49
    Boolit Master deerslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacksmith View Post
    What do your 25 Yard groups look like? How about some target pictures maybe we can see a pattern to improve our advise.

    Blacksmith
    I will try to get out and shoot tomorow if the weather and wife allow me to!
    Remember the average response time of a 911 call is over 4 minutes. The average response time of a .357 is around 1300 F.P.S.

  10. #50
    Boolit Master
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    Here is some good reading material, The Army Marksmanship pistol Manual. Mostly bullseye focused but the basic fundamentals apply to all aspects of shooting

    http://www.saveourguns.com/Ar_Marks_...rain_Guide.pdf

  11. #51
    Boolit Master deerslayer's Avatar
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    Ok set up today at 23 yards with a rest and did quite a bit of shooting. I found that most of my shots were 3" left of center at that distance. Though still not tight groups like I wanted it did seem to be getting better. I tried putting more support against the left side of the fire arm as i shot and this improved things some. I also worked on trigger control and using the pad of my finger rather than who,le finger. I will need to practice alot more that is evident!!
    Remember the average response time of a 911 call is over 4 minutes. The average response time of a .357 is around 1300 F.P.S.

  12. #52
    Boolit Master
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    Look thru this site, lots of good information here.

    http://www.bullseyepistol.com/

    I don't shoot indoors as well as outdoors, and overcast isn't as good for me as full sunshine.

  13. #53
    Boolit Master deerslayer's Avatar
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    Set up again yesterday and shot at 23 yards. I shot two different OALs and factory ammo and all had about the same results (actually the cast shot a little better). At 23 yards I am about 2-3" left of center and groups of about 4" with multiple flyers here and there.
    Maybe I am wrong but it almost seems to me that is all the better the gun will do. I will take credit for some of the flyers but I also felt a few were undeserved.

    What should a person expect a Glock 21 .45 acp to do at 23 yards? (all stock no upgrades at all)
    Remember the average response time of a 911 call is over 4 minutes. The average response time of a .357 is around 1300 F.P.S.

  14. #54
    Boolit Master

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    No experience with Glock accy, but I do know that a lot of the Europistols intended for
    M&P applications really aren't particularly accurate, like 3-5" is real common out of the
    box with factory ammo. Like all generalizations, it will be definitely wrong in many
    particular cases, but I tend to think that the normal level of accy that you will see from
    a S&W .38 Kframe revolver is relatively rare in modern M&P wonder pistols and tactical
    tupperware. Their market simply does not desire greater accuracy. The majority of
    Euro cops would be considered to be poor shots by most on this site.
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  15. #55
    Boolit Master
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    A Glock should be good for 2-3 inches at 25 yards off a Ransom rest (with the right load)

    Shooting a 4" group at 23 yards is fine, considering the sights and trigger are made for "combat " not precision.

    The "flyers" are what you need to eliminate

  16. #56
    Boolit Man
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    Haven't read through all of the posts so maybe this has been covered.
    I did see that you were using your whole finger and good advice to use the first pad.

    Your groups don't seem bad at that range except for the flyers.
    Use sandbags on a rest at that range and see how the Glock does. This gives a better feel how the pistol shoots, sight alignment and such. If you minimize your flyers that way then you can figure out what to work on. Can also tell if the previous owner sold the gun because it didn't shoot.
    Had a Berreta 96 like that.

    What ammo are you using? Guns are like women, they only like what they like. Might be an old ford pickup and they turn their nose up at a Mercedes convertible.
    Shoot at least a box each of different brands and weights, cleaning between boxes.
    Take notes. Save your brass and send it to me as I can divine your problem from your spent brass.

    Don't aim too small, it's not rifle that's going to shoot 1" groups at 100 yds.
    Use a full size silhouette target or trace a large coffee can lid on a piece of paper and color it in with magic marker.
    You'd be surprised how much you will improve by doing this.

  17. #57
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    An insult from a woman helped me.

    The best tip I ever got to improve with a handgun was an insult from a female handgun instructor. She told me I had wimpy limp wrists---I was a body builder at the time and a towering physical hulk. She prescribed finger and wrist exercises with a squeeze grip exerciser and a chain roll to develop strength in my fingers and wrists. The chain roll is a common gym exercise and uses a 1 inch dowel with a thin 3-4 foot chain attached and a 10 lb weight disk attached to the chain. Roll it up slowly, roll it down slowly in repetitions of 20. Get your hands and wrists powerfully strong and holding a handgun steady while squeezing the trigger smoothly will be a LOT easier.
    Last edited by onondaga; 08-13-2010 at 01:26 PM. Reason: grammar

  18. #58
    Boolit Master on Heavens Range
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    That female instructor is right on. That building technique is/was used by the majority of college pistol teams of years gone by. Now, here is a new one from my wife, thought up apparently by herself and used by some college teams as well, primarily rifle, after she has written about it in college newspapers. Place yourself back behind the target; pretend to pull the bullet/boolit out of the gun until it magically goes off. That takes your mind off of the gun entirely, and won't allow you to shoot until every shot counts inside your head. ... felix
    felix

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by onondaga View Post
    The best tip I ever got to improve with a handgun was an insult from a female handgun instructor. She told me I had wimpy limp wrists---I was a body builder at the time and a towering physical hulk. She prescribed finger and wrist exercises with a squeeze grip exerciser and a chain roll to develop strength in my fingers and wrists. The chain roll is a common gym exercise and uses a 1 inch dowel with a thin 3-4 foot chain attached and a 10 lb weight disk attached to the chain. Roll it up slowly, roll it down slowly in repetitions of 20. Get your hands and wrists powerfully strong and holding a handgun steady while squeezing the trigger smoothly will be a LOT easier.
    The wrist has few muscles. Strength comes from the forearms. Maybe that is why I shoot the groups I do, I was a mechanic and could break large bolts easy. Had to use a torque wrench.
    You need strong wrist bones and tendons but the forearms need to be strong.
    My finger strength comes from archery but fingers have few muscles, mostly tendons connected to your forearms. But bones get strong too.
    Does what you do in life affect shooting? Sure it does. Sit at a desk with a pencil, call a plumber, an electrician, a ditch digger or even a painter for all you need done around the house and you will not be strong enough to control a gun. Those that use tools are better.

  20. #60
    I shot handguns for years and hit close most of the time. Then I got a video with the proper stance and hold shown on tape. I watched it several times and paid close attention. Then went out and tried the proper stance and grip and it made all the difference in the world in my shooting. Now if I don't hit what I shoot at I can tell you what I did wrong. I own 3 glocks that I shoot rather well with. Out to about 40 yds a coke can is in serious trouble most of the time

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