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Thread: Improving accuracy

  1. #21
    Boolit Master deerslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .30/30 Guy View Post
    If you have a .22 RF handgun or can borrow one shoot that for a while. Shoot it at the distances that you plan on shooting. Prove to yourself what a good shot you are with the .22.

    After you are happy with the results you are getting with the .22 start shooting the .45 again.
    No .22 available right now. But if the right deal comes along I may have a new practice toy.
    Remember the average response time of a 911 call is over 4 minutes. The average response time of a .357 is around 1300 F.P.S.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    Good info, agree, practice with a 22 first, and strength training helps.

    Was taught as a kid to take a breath, let most of it out then don't breathe in while working trigger.
    Different from "hold your breath", more relaxed, no pressure.

    Wife has to make her shot between heartbeats. I can barely feel mine, low BP.

    I hadn't shot anything for a long time, went to break in the little Kahr 40.
    After about 30 min the top muscle in my forearm started to spasm a bit.
    Talk about wiggling the sight picture!

  3. #23
    Boolit Master AzShooter's Avatar
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    Glock triggers can be worked on. Mine was a crisp 2 lbs. I had a friend that worked for Glock do it for me. Just took lots of polishing and a little inkering with the springs.
    Go ahead and run. You will only die tired

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by a.squibload View Post

    Wife has to make her shot between heartbeats. I can barely feel mine, low BP.
    Top marksmen do that unconcsiously - they learn it without realizing it.
    Echo
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    One of the most endearing sights in the world is the vision of a naked good-looking woman leaving the bedroom to make breakfast. Bolivar Shagnasty (I believe that Lazarus Long also said it, but I can't find any record of it.)

  5. #25
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by deerslayer View Post

    I plan to sandbag it ASAP at 25 yards to begin with and see what kind of results I get.

    As to barrel fouling, I have found that brake cleaner and a nylon brush returns it to like new condition every time I shoot it.



    Yea, a lack of proper cleaning is like accusing a man of stealing around here. Still I find that when I shine the white light from an LED source in a barrel from a guy locally and ask them what that dull stuff is , I get blank stares. It ain't the leading, it's the fact that it affects accuracy.

    I hate polygon rifling. I have it in rifles and in handguns and lead has to be way harder to perform and designs so much stronger. It ain't lead friendly. It is shooting out of my new S&Ws to more conventional. Up until it gets there, my velocity has to stay WAY down and my bullets be like chips off ol Plymouth Rock to hang. So you can understand what I am saying, my 357 S&W would spray the 358156 like 14" groups at 25 until I cut the charge from 12 grains of 2400 down to 9. I am back up 11 1/2. But normal charges for this is 12 to 13 1/2 grains.

    Let's look at your first statement above. Personally I would like to see you bag it much closer and then move out. That will provide info. And if you could shoot jacketed that would be even better.

    Your use of break cleaner is a heavy degreaser that guys often clean out their molds with. That's another reason for the jacketed.

    Maybe you think this is a waste and if so ignore this. But "You" aught to be able to tell if you are flinching or blinking. This still could be a confluence of factors here.
    Evaluate everything you read for safety and use common sense.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master AzShooter's Avatar
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    I'm at the range a lot and the biggest problem I see is people trying to practice at a target too far away. There's nothing wrong with shooting at a target 5 yards in front of you. It gives you a chance to see what is happening during and after the shot.

    When I shot professional archery I spent hours shooting at close targests to perfect my form. I was able to win a few national championships and shoot a number of perfect 300s but could never have done it if not for concentrating on form even with my eyes closed.

    Get close, pay attention to what's happening and you will be able to print decent 25 yard groups soon enough.
    Go ahead and run. You will only die tired

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo View Post
    Top marksmen do that unconcsiously - they learn it without realizing it.
    My resting beat ranges from 48 to 57 per minute. Standing and doing anything brings up everyone's beat, so figure 70, but some will be a lot higher then that, as much as 90.
    That is a very, very short time between beats to fire a gun.
    Taking a few deep breaths will speed up the beat too.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master

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    Off-topic here but for 44Man and other seniors having a rested heart beat in the 40s (lower 40s) you better be careful and maybe speak to you doc, as blood can coagulate in a heart chamber if youre unlucky and will later kick out a clot or two and you could be in trouble stroke wise. Best to be in the lower 60s if youre in good shape.

  9. #29
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    This should be a sticky! One of the better posts ever done hear.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master




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    Quote Originally Posted by 44man View Post
    My resting beat ranges from 48 to 57 per minute. Standing and doing anything brings up everyone's beat, so figure 70, but some will be a lot higher then that, as much as 90.
    That is a very, very short time between beats to fire a gun.
    Taking a few deep breaths will speed up the beat too.
    There is an optimal arousal level for all activities. The arousal level for the hundred meter dash is different from the arousal level for shooting, and those are both different from the optimal level for golf. Practice, and good coaching, can cause a marksman to approach that optimal level, and their pulse rate, and concentration, &cetera, will work toward the best score.

    And deep breathing is part of a technique for reducing anxiety, that reduces arousal, and pulse rate is attendant with that.

    At Perry many years ago there was a team member who was known to be tightly wound (helicopter pilot - what would one expect?). He would get visibly upset when he shot a 7, for example, and slam the shooting bench. That 7 was history - he might have been better served to dial it back a couple of notches and concentrate on basics, rather than expend resources on history. He was hoping to be the first Academy graduate to break 2600. He didn't make it. His 'resting' arousal level was fairly ideal for being a helicopter pilot. But he couldn't dial it back to the level necessary for top competition.

    YMMV...
    Echo
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    One of the most endearing sights in the world is the vision of a naked good-looking woman leaving the bedroom to make breakfast. Bolivar Shagnasty (I believe that Lazarus Long also said it, but I can't find any record of it.)

  11. #31
    Boolit Master deerslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzShooter View Post
    I'm at the range a lot and the biggest problem I see is people trying to practice at a target too far away. There's nothing wrong with shooting at a target 5 yards in front of you. It gives you a chance to see what is happening during and after the shot.

    When I shot professional archery I spent hours shooting at close targests to perfect my form. I was able to win a few national championships and shoot a number of perfect 300s but could never have done it if not for concentrating on form even with my eyes closed.

    Get close, pay attention to what's happening and you will be able to print decent 25 yard groups soon enough.
    I understand what you are saying about learning the fundementals up close. I think after the advice here I had better work on the fundementals and retrain myself in proper shooting techniques and I will work on that more before moving out to much. To be honest I don't even practice at 25 yards I have just tried it several times in the course of shooting only to find out I can't even hit the paper reliably.

    My goal is to eventually be on the paper at 50 yards. But that is a long way off figuratively and literraly!
    Remember the average response time of a 911 call is over 4 minutes. The average response time of a .357 is around 1300 F.P.S.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master
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    Deerslayer If youre near Cincy come to a bullseye match. They have them at the Fairfield sportsman club every month thru the summer.

    There are a lot of good shooters in the area, If not bullseye go to some of the USPSA or IDPA matches. They wont be shooting at 50 yards like the bullseye shooters but they still require the fundamentals.

    Your Glock should be able to do 3" or so at 25 yards. And the Glock 45 is pretty lead friendly.

    Here is my 25 yard target from the cast boolit postal match, pretty good but I didnt win, another shooter from the Cincy area beat me (Dale53)


  13. #33
    Boolit Master
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    I should add they also have GSSF (Glock) indoor matches at Target World, Very fun and you get to compete shooting your Glock at multiple distances out to 25 yards.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo View Post
    There is an optimal arousal level for all activities. The arousal level for the hundred meter dash is different from the arousal level for shooting, and those are both different from the optimal level for golf. Practice, and good coaching, can cause a marksman to approach that optimal level, and their pulse rate, and concentration, &cetera, will work toward the best score.

    And deep breathing is part of a technique for reducing anxiety, that reduces arousal, and pulse rate is attendant with that.

    At Perry many years ago there was a team member who was known to be tightly wound (helicopter pilot - what would one expect?). He would get visibly upset when he shot a 7, for example, and slam the shooting bench. That 7 was history - he might have been better served to dial it back a couple of notches and concentrate on basics, rather than expend resources on history. He was hoping to be the first Academy graduate to break 2600. He didn't make it. His 'resting' arousal level was fairly ideal for being a helicopter pilot. But he couldn't dial it back to the level necessary for top competition.

    YMMV...
    This is true and why I pointed it out. It was real bad starting a match, many times to the point of shaking.
    By the way, my heart beat has always been slow because of the extreme exercise I did when I was young. We even rode the old balloon tire bikes 20 miles to go fishing, once rode from Cleveland to Akron to fish. Old Schwinn Knee action mule.
    Even today at 72, it takes me 20 minutes on the Tread Climber to get to 100 unless I over do it, which I won't.

  15. #35
    Boolit Master deerslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANeat View Post
    I should add they also have GSSF (Glock) indoor matches at Target World, Very fun and you get to compete shooting your Glock at multiple distances out to 25 yards.
    I have shot at target world once and I personally did not care for it. The indoors and shooting just do not go together and the little theives kept sweeping my brass up. I just couldn't concentrate on what I was doing with all the other folks swinging guns around it seemed a little unsafe. I am not a marks man but I am a safe person with firearms and prefer others shooting near me to be also.

    I would guess at the matches it may be better with qaulified people there but through the week in the evenings it was not the place for me.

    By the way that is real nice shooting there!!

    I will have to try one of the other matches that sounds like fun. i was invited to one in Oxford a couple weeks ago but I was tied up that weekend.
    Remember the average response time of a 911 call is over 4 minutes. The average response time of a .357 is around 1300 F.P.S.

  16. #36
    Boolit Master deerslayer's Avatar
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    I am just curious if others are out there with the same kinda questions as I have and if they are getting the benefit of this knowledge also? If so maybe this is a candidate for a sticky thread?
    Remember the average response time of a 911 call is over 4 minutes. The average response time of a .357 is around 1300 F.P.S.

  17. #37
    Boolit Master
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    Yea target world can be an adventure, Ive shown up and shot the match but thats about all I can stand also.

    I believe Fairfield Sportsman and perhaps Oxford also have Bullseye leagues in the evenings thru the week where you get some more serious practice without shooting an entire match. You dont need to be a member and its probably not too far for you.

    http://www.fairfieldsportsmen.com/le...bullseye.shtml


    Getting a decent 22 pistol as others have mentioned is a great, probably the best, way to learn.
    I would recommend a decent used Ruger MarkII


    Almost everyone was bad when they started, some desire to get better. I was terrible when I started but really wanted to be what I considered a good shot.

    Some catch on real fast, some take a while, Im more of a slow learner, or I had more bad habits to break LOL

    As far as Bullseye they have matches somehere every weekend, Fairfield (1st) Lexington (2nd) Miami Rifle and Pistol (3rd) Lynchburg (4th)

    They have leagues thru the week at Fairfield (Wed) and Miami Rifle and Pistol(thurs)

    Dont worry about "sucking" everyone has been there. You could probably show up at a league shoot and borrow someones gun to get a taste.
    If you need any more info just ask. There is help out there, you need trigger time and possibly a few pointers but once you get the basic fundamentals down its just a mater of practice

  18. #38
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    All new fellas need to realize that all of us have days that just suck. One day all is going great and a few days later we might be better off with a bowling ball!
    The important thing is to never get twisted and learn to laugh at yourself AND your friends. Laugh together over those misses.
    I heard too much cussing on ranges and even seen a guy wrap a $300 bow around a tree when he missed.
    Your mental attitude is the most important thing. All of the best shooters are gracious, accept a loss and offer a hand to the winner.
    If you get angry and sulk in a corner, find another sport.
    Being together and having fun with a great bunch of guys is priceless no matter how anyone shot.
    I feel this is the most important lesson to learn. Lose with dignity and a smile. Friends are more important.

  19. #39
    Boolit Master deerslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 44man View Post
    All new fellas need to realize that all of us have days that just suck. One day all is going great and a few days later we might be better off with a bowling ball!
    The important thing is to never get twisted and learn to laugh at yourself AND your friends. Laugh together over those misses.
    I heard too much cussing on ranges and even seen a guy wrap a $300 bow around a tree when he missed.
    Your mental attitude is the most important thing. All of the best shooters are gracious, accept a loss and offer a hand to the winner.
    If you get angry and sulk in a corner, find another sport.
    Being together and having fun with a great bunch of guys is priceless no matter how anyone shot.
    I feel this is the most important lesson to learn. Lose with dignity and a smile. Friends are more important.

    I agree completely!
    Remember the average response time of a 911 call is over 4 minutes. The average response time of a .357 is around 1300 F.P.S.

  20. #40
    Boolit Master KYCaster's Avatar
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    Here's an exercise that may help a bit. I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned already.

    Cut a pencil or 1/4 in. dowel to about 2 1/2 in. long. Curl your fingers like you're holding the grip of your gun. Put the dowel between the pad of your trigger finger and the heel of your hand as if you're pulling the trigger.

    Watch closely while you apply pressure to see if you're pushing or pulling your "trigger" from side to side rather than straight back.

    See if you have any sympathetic movement of your other fingers.

    Any movement at the trigger will be transferred to the muzzle and compounded by the length of the barrel. The result is larger groups at the target.

    Good luck.

    Jerry

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