Hopkins and Allen Falling block

[NoZombies]

Any opinions on the strength of the 932 actions in particular? Being a true falling block action, I assume the weakness would lie in the pins and soft block and receiver?

Anybody have a H&A that they shoot?

[218bee]

I've got a Hopkins and Allen falling block shotgun that I only shoot BP shotshells in and not too often. Thought about getting a small caliber barrel for it......but on mine barrel is not threaded it just slips in receiver and is held in by a screw...not very strong. I believe they did make some single shot rifles in centerfire calibers but probably for BP and very low pressure. In one book I read some info that the author cautioned against trying to chamber one for 22Hornet as it would not handle that much pressure. Someone may have more info for ya. But I think these are not very strong.

[KCSO]

Black powder only they are NOT strong enough for anything else.

[John Taylor]

The ones I have worked on are made from cast iron, not very strong. I did take a 12 gauge and made it into a 32-40 several years back. Also took a 44 XL shot and made it into a 44-40. Best to stay with the lower pressure (BP) rounds for these actions.

[NoZombies]

Well, since mine is a .32 rimfire, and the bore is near perfect, I'm thinking about rechambering to .32 S&W long. I've already got a CF link, and will just need the re-chamber, and to find or make a new hammer that will reach the FP at CF height. Oh, and make a new FP, since this one seems to be broken...

I assume that something like the .32 S&W long should be no problem for the action. Especially since it's almost identical pressure wise to the old BP .32 rimfire long. Litterature I've seen said 32 RF long pressures ran about 14.5K psi(I wish I could remember where I read that...), Saami max for .32 S&W long is 15K psi. Since the cartridge head is the same diameter, the "extra" thrust should be almost non-existant. I tend to load below max anyways for my old hand ejectors, so I'm thinking this might make a good companion to those.

Am I missing anything there?

Thanks guys.

[pietro]

There's no need for a rechamber, to get that old rifle shooting again. If you slip a CF .32 Short Colt round into your chamber, it should seat/breech perfectly, needing only ignition.

Just redux the FP to CF, redrilling the breechblock for the new FP hole, and use currently commercially available ammo (Winchester makes about three runs/year) to get some cases for lead bullet BP loads.

The Winchester factory loads are loaded to very low pressure, in deference to older rifles like these.

.

[NoZombies]

I thought about using the .32 short or long colt, but honestly trying to get a mold, cast a healed bullet, and then try to get real accuracy seems like a lot of work, especially considering that what I really want is a .32 S&W long caliber rifle to be a companion to my .32 S&W L revolvers.

I think if I had a revolver or two in .32 long colt, I might feel differently, but I really like the .32 S&W-L, already load for it, and would like my kids to be able to shoot this gun one day. Since factory pressures for the cartridge should be safe, I don't have to take any special precautions with the gun if someone else gets ahold of it down the road.

I got the gun for a song, the finish leaves a lot to be desired, and I don't think there are more than 2 real H&A collectors out there, so I don't think I'm gonna ruin any "collector value" by my conversion. This will be a utilitarian gun, it should poke holes in paper and small game pretty efficiently. If I like how it shoots, I might even refinish it, make the rest of the gun look as good as the bore does.

[NoZombies]

Here are a few photos of the gun I'm talking about.

Clearly not in pristine condition, almost no blue left on the barrel, missing front and rear dovetail sights, maybe 30% of the case colors remain, the stock has been butchered to install an ill fitting crescent but plate etc.

But the bore is very near perfect, (I need to slug it and see where it sits). and it came with an original Lyman #1A tang sight. The sight is almost certainly worth as much or more than I paid for the gun.

The project will have to wait until sometime this fall or winter, but I think this will make a fine paper and squirrel puncher.

[KCSO]

It will handle standard S and W long loads all right but don't push them. The C/F breech block conversion is not that difficult.

[Knight Templar]

Check the lower end of the link for a second hole. Mine has 2 holes one for rimfire and one for centerfire. The height of the block in the frame is the only thing different between the 2. Some of these were 2 barrel sets with a shot barrel and a 22 rimfire barrel.

[NoZombies]

Sadly, it's a single length link, I got a longer link with the rifle. Unfortunately since this one was rimfire only, the hammer isn't tall enough to make contact with the block in the position the CF link moves it to.

I'll be out of the country for the next several months, so the project will languish until then, but I really think I'm gonna end up modifying the block rather than trying to modify the hammer. Even if someone comes out with a new batch of .32 RF ammo, after re-chambering, it wouldn't do me any good anyways, and I like the .32 S&W long as a small game cartridge. It'll also be a good companion (or so I hope) for my little 6" barreled I-frame smith that I like as a trail gun in the same caliber.

I've heard a lot about how all the hammers for the H&A falling blocks are very different, even among the same basic models and frame sizes and I wonder if one of the reasons is the difference for the multi-position link rifles...

[StrawHat]

Nice looking rifle, love the perch belly stock.

Sounds like you will have a good stalking rifle when you are done. I have been wanting to build a small bore rifle for quite some time but have not been able to find a suitable rifle to use as the base. Yours looks good. Keep us posted on how it goes.

[uscra112]

Where DO people get the idea that low-price American arms like Hopkins and Allen were made of cast iron? All you have to do is take a file to one, or weld up some damage, as I have, to know that they are steel. Cast steel no doubt, but steel! Even the old cast Ballard actions are steel, not cast iron. Granted it's not the heat treatable alloy steel we see in today's investment castings; they used a low carbon, low alloy steel that had adequate toughness, and they case hardened it for wear resistance. Which ought to be proof enough right there - you cannot case-harden cast iron, there's already far too much carbon in it.

I've had that "hammer tip" problem, but with a Stevens 44. In desperation, (well, maybe more out of curiosity), I ground a notch in the hammer and silver-soldered in a bit of tool steel for an extension. It seems to be working OK. That hammer survived 1000+ rounds of .22 rimfire, until I found a longer hammer. I've saved the "extended" one, for use in another project, too.

And I have converted a 932 rimfire H&A to shoot the .32 S&W round by making a longer link. IMHO the action would stand .32 Long, but I'd make sure that the barrel slip-fit was tight and lap the tapered retaining pin for full bearing. Frank deHaas might have suggested silver-soldering the barrel in place, pin and all. Heck, one of his hobbyist actions was made that way. The H&A parts being low carbon steel, there's no temper to worry about. But it may affect that nice case color. I'd preserve that - not many H&A rifles you find today still show much of any color. Being cheap, people didn't take very good care of them.

[Wayne Smith]

Another option - Hayley Custom Ammunition makes reloadable cartridges for the 32 rimfire out of 357 cases and a .22 blank. You'd have to call him - no internet, website or e-mail- I would assume expensive, but then, how many do you need? The Handloader article stated low enough pressure that no sizing is needed.

Bob Hayley
211 N. River St.
PO Box 889
Seymour, TX 76380

1-940-888-3352 phone and fax

[mazo kid]

Where DO people get the idea that low-price American arms like Hopkins and Allen were made of cast iron? All you have to do is take a file to one, or weld up some damage, as I have, to know that they are steel. Cast steel no doubt, but steel! Even the old cast Ballard actions are steel, not cast iron.......

I agree, in their old catalogs, H&A stated the receivers were steel. I think it was DeHaas who said they were cast iron.

[mazo kid]

Don't dismiss the value of that rifle, check out some on-line auctions and you will see they run from $250 to $500 for good ones. I restocked one of mine as it was badly cracked (saved it though) and also rust blued the barrel.

[Bent Ramrod]

I think the receivers were cast of something called "malleable iron" in the old days, the same stuff that Ideal tong tools were made of. Definitely not a forging but adequate for low-intensity cartridges. The earlier version of the 922 Junior (which had a crosswise set screw to hold the barrel in) could be ordered chambered for .32-20, although I'm sure they were only rated for the black powder loading.

You would be able to switch back and forth to the .32 Short or Long Colt and the .32 RF by repositioning the firing pin. Once you go to the .32 S&W, the chamber is too large in diameter.

Generally, the perch belly stock in that model is associated with a lever with less of an "S" curve than yours has, while the full "S" curve lever went with the straight stock.

[NoZombies]

Well, since I'd really like to shoot and use the gun, I think I'll stick with the original plan of conversion to .32 SW long.

I've done the whole reloadable .32 rimfire thing before, and decided I don't want to go that route again.

Since I sold the lyman tang sight before I left town, I think I'm even gonna put a small scope on it to improve it's usefulness to me. I've been looking for something different to hunt squirrel and rabbit, and I'm hoping this will fit the bill.

I know what collector value there is for the gun will be lost with my modifications, but I expect I'll be shooting it for years to come, rather than leaving it in the safe collecting dust.

Whenever I get done with the conversion, I'll post photos, but I'm not even back in the states yet.

[Bret4207]

For small game there's no flies on the 32 S+W or 32 S+W Long. Either one out of a rifle will easily push a 100-115 gr boolit into the 1K fps area or more at low pressure and that spells supper. Go to an 85 gr boolit and it's even easier.

[NoZombies]

Bret,

Exactly what I'm thinking. No need to hot rod it. I already load the cartridge for several pistols, and those little rascals won't know what hit 'em.

Heck I even cut a cherry for a 95 grain (or so) type 3 wadcutter before I left town, get a mold made up. I'll have to see how it shoots, but it should make for fun and quiet plinking.