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Thread: International Lawn Steel shooting

  1. #21
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    Here are the additional targets:

    Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #22
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    Is anyone shooting this game, or have experience with it, in north central North Carolina? I'd go buy a lawn chair to be able to play this...

  3. #23
    Boolit Buddy Aunegl's Avatar
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    I've got a problem the lack of muzzle control, in this game. Especially with the guy in the pink crocs. I was waiting for him to add another hole in his crocs.

    IHSMA rules on muzzle control:

    4. Muzzle Control:

    A) From the moment a handgun is placed on the firing line, until it is removed, the muzzle shall point safely down range.

    B) At no time during the loading or firing stages shall competitors allow their handgun to point at any part of their anatomy or any other person.

    C) While in the firing position, no part of the competitor's body may be in the "Danger Zone", defined as a 45-degree angle cone-shaped area extending from the muzzle in line with the bore.

  4. #24
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    Looks fun.

  5. #25
    This game looks like it would be a hoot! The cribbage reference intrigued me! Would love to play with a short bbld SA revolver! Or even a 1911. Probably not do too well, but still have a ton of fun. Anyone shooting this anywhere in N AL/S Central TN?

  6. #26
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    Your concerns with muzzle control are well founded. However, the fellow in the pink Crocs is Roy Kramer, himself. It's merely a trick of the camera angle. I will assure you that Roy, and the other regulars of this game have never lost a foot digit while shooting. Their feet are at least a FOOT away (sorry, couldn't help myself) from the muzzle direction. Feet never get close to being in trouble.

    So, pardon my poor work with the camera angles. The game is very safe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunegl View Post
    I've got a problem the lack of muzzle control, in this game. Especially with the guy in the pink crocs. I was waiting for him to add another hole in his crocs.

    IHSMA rules on muzzle control:

    4. Muzzle Control:

    A) From the moment a handgun is placed on the firing line, until it is removed, the muzzle shall point safely down range.

    B) At no time during the loading or firing stages shall competitors allow their handgun to point at any part of their anatomy or any other person.

    C) While in the firing position, no part of the competitor's body may be in the "Danger Zone", defined as a 45-degree angle cone-shaped area extending from the muzzle in line with the bore.
    BTW, I did see some guys set up and practice on Sunday afternoon, and they fired many short guns at these targets, including a 45 acp, and a S&W semi auto. Those didn't do all that well.
    Not sure Roy would be happy with higher velocity jacketed bullets being tossed at his steel. I wasn't intrusive enough to see whether they were shooting cast or jacketed. The point is that they were shooting short barrels, and didn;t fare any better than when I shot my 4" GP 100 with light 38 special loads at 200 feet. Longer barrels are really needed to do this game justice.
    Last edited by DukeInFlorida; 05-13-2014 at 09:51 AM.


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  7. #27
    Boolit Buddy gunarea's Avatar
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    Lawnsteel is now gaining popularity simply by being played in a more public venue. Although reading the rules may make Lawnsteel seem a bit involved, playing the game allows most folks to catch on in just a couple games. In the past two months our player inventory has doubled.
    Selling Lawnsteel has never been nor will ever be my intention. I have played every nationally recognized gun GAME there is. Putting play back into the GAME, is what I am all about. Enlisting in the Marine Corps in 1969 at 17 years old (my mothers tears stained the document) taught me to appreciate playing games and knowing the difference.
    WARNING!! Lawnsteel is addictive. BTW the first time is always free.
    Dukeinflorida has passed the *** barrier and will soon move on to the next level of Lawnsteel play. Congratulations!
    As to the concerns of safety, my credentials are extensive along with my experience. Cars and cell phones kill more people than anything in the USA. Within the general public, our military, law enforcement and politics there is no place which excludes stupid. Unfortunately Lawnsteel is not exempt from stupid either. Let's just have fun and try not to hurt anybody. I love this game!
    Roy

  8. #28
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    If I can afford a vacation next year, I may have to try to get to a location where lawnsteel is played, just to be able to play a game or two. One box of rounds per game is affordable (and good incentive to get my reloading going again), if I could shoot at a range close to home. I'm pretty sure I could find a load for my .357 that meets the rules and that would give me hits fairly frequently at 60-70 yards. You folks won't mind if I wear my steel toe work boots to the range, will you?

  9. #29
    Boolit Buddy gunarea's Avatar
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    N.C. Lawnsteel

    You may be in luck! There is a Lawnsteel shooter with a small range located between Ashland and the casinos. I'm not familiar with the area so don't know if this is close to you. His range does not have a full Lawnsteel setup but he does practice and he knows Lawnsteel the game. If this is of interest, shoot me a pm and I'll try to hook you up.
    When you come to Florida(everyone comes to Florida) it will be no problem to introduce you to Lawnsteel. With just a little bit of warning, all you will need the first time is a butt load of nickles. While we do want you to feel special, this invitation goes out to all my casting family. Cmon down here and experience a gun game where fun and laughter are part of the play. This is not a testosterone driven shooting sport, we have many female participants and welcome all the ladies. We are located between Disney and Daytona International speedway. It is a very easy location to get to off of four lane divided highways.
    Roy

  10. #30
    Boolit Buddy gunarea's Avatar
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    My buddy in North Carolina lives near Bryson city. We talked yesterday and he said he would welcome a fellow to his range to learn Lawnsteel. Just let me know.
    Roy

  11. #31
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    Today, I got my first opportunity to be a Line Judge. Wow, what a LOT of responsibility. Had the best day ever (shooting wise), and the most fun also. Came home with fewer nickels than I went with, but it's not the nickels that measure the extent of fun.

    I am working on re-establishing the formal web site for the game. I'll report progress on that as I can.

    The thread started off with a reference to Rusty being a friend of Bozz330. Rusty played Lawn Steel with us last Sunday, and is still in good practice.


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  12. #32
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    DukeInFlorida nice reporting. I think it looks like a bunch of fun. I can't imagine that there is much in the way of that up my way but I would be up for a game or two!
    jeepyj
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunarea View Post
    You may be in luck! There is a Lawnsteel shooter with a small range located between Ashland and the casinos.
    As I recall, the "casinos" are in Cherokee, extreme western end of North Carolina, which is not particularly close to me and well away from I-40 (it'd have to be a weekend trip with a campout or motel stay over one night, before or after; it's about seven-eight hours on the road), but still a bunch closer than Orlando area (which is a long full day's drive; I'm two hours from where I'd get onto I-95, from which it's twelve hours or so further to Orlando). OTOH, if that's between Asheville and Cherokee, it might be as little as four hours, which could be a day trip if the shooting starts late enough (no problem getting on the road by 6 AM, I'm up at 5:00 on weekdays). I could probably manage to get out to Cherokee area three or four times a year, Asheville more frequently, which isn't enough to get really proficient at anything (but I don't have to go that far to practice shooting, of course; and I have a friend whose family owns a piece of forest-enclosed land near Greensboro that we already shoot on and where we could easily set up a practice range for Lawnsteel -- long term, we'd like to play the game properly there; that's about forty minutes from my home).

    I'd appreciate it if you could put me in touch with your friend, if only to get a more precise location and see when he's able to shoot. I've never shot steel at any range (other than a hundred yard gong at a range I used a couple times back in 1981), but I'm sure my Dan Wesson could handle it at 60-70 yards; I can hit a silhouette target pretty consistently at a hundred last I tried. I'll have to get my press set up and load some rounds (a little less "hot" than what I already have loaded, which are all near maximum loads) before I can shoot Lawnsteel, but that's a relatively minor task. A couple-three boxes of suitable rounds and a couple rolls of nickels should cover me for a day...

    Edit: Okay, Google Maps shows Bryson City just 30-40 miles west of Asheville; it's about 3 1/2 hours without traffic. I could do that as a day trip, several times a year, with a little planning (gas money, lunch-drink cooler, ammunition, nickels, hat for sun protection -- not a big problem). I'll send you a PM...
    Last edited by I'll Make Mine; 07-12-2014 at 08:57 AM. Reason: Additional information

  14. #34
    Boolit Buddy gunarea's Avatar
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    Hey Illmakemine
    You can wear whatever fashion choice suits. Our oldest player wears shorts and when shooting revolvers will put a piece of towel under the cylinder area to avoid burns and stains. This blast shield is reffered to as a leg kotex. It is seldom the shot maximum ever gets hit. Last Wednesday there were only four players and in four games I burnt 108 rounds. At state tournament in 2011 six players finished a game in 21 minutes firing 13 rounds each. Games are never the same. The level of play constantly changes with sometimes very subtle differences. Each game can be easily altered simply with a target or two placed in a completely different although legal position.
    As Dukeinflorida pointed out, this game is unlike anything you have ever played. Without first hand experience it would be very difficult to understand what is being explained. Comparisons to other games is not unlike alligator, rattlesnake and armadillo tasting like chicken. They don't!

    [QUOTE] Originally Posted by Aunegl
    I've got a problem the lack of muzzle control, in this game. Especially with the guy in the pink crocs. I was waiting for him to add another hole in his crocs.

    IHSMA rules on muzzle control:

    4. Muzzle Control:

    A) From the moment a handgun is placed on the firing line, until it is removed, the muzzle shall point safely down range.

    B) At no time during the loading or firing stages shall competitors allow their handgun to point at any part of their anatomy or any other person.

    C) While in the firing position, no part of the competitor's body may be in the "Danger Zone", defined as a 45-degree angle cone-shaped area extending from the muzzle in line with the bore."



    Aunegl, the rules for their game has changed radicaly over the years. During my reign it was legal for a full prone Creedmore firing position. Safety is the individual responsibility of every person involved in any shooting sport. Through my years of training law enforcement (police, sheriff, swat and fbi) I have come to be very aware of stupid bombs. Here is my proof.Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	110425Yes it is a gun in his ear, yes his finger is on the trigger, yes he is an instructor, yes he is still alive. Being a professional, the safety was on! Unlike so many gun games, Lawnsteel requires at least one observer for each shot taken. I challenge someone to find a gun range lacking the obvious bullet holes in places where there shouldn't be. My Lawnsteel facility was twenty one years old, hosted six years of state competition, held 56 sanctioned shoots per year, supported professional and informal training, along with thousands of impromptu games. Even with the 4 bullet holes that came from a stupid neighbor, there are only 8 on the entire facility of questionable procedure. Three are in the roof directly over a firing station and one in the floor. I personally witnessed each.
    While I am up on the soapbox. My shooting facility was closed by a wealthy individual who was a competitor(state medalist), a range member, former employer and recent neighbor. As a neighbor he demanded a cease and desist of all range activities after purchasing contigous property. Not a new story but one all too familiar. Some of you know all too well what I'm talking about! So again, let's be safe and have some fun.
    Roy

  15. #35
    Boolit Master
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    Gunarea, that was kind of a joke -- though folks who don't live with me, even if they know me pretty well, would likely have missed it. I own precisely two pairs of shoes (think of me as the anti-Imelda Marcos), one steel toe paratrooper style zip/lace boots subsidized by my employer, the other high top motorcycle/engineer boots I've had for many years (at $120 a pair where I used to buy them, cheapest shoes I've ever owned in terms of cost over their ten-plus year life, even when I rode a motorcycle daily). I also wear full length jeans or khakis, and long sleeve shirts (lots cheaper than sunscreen), even when it's hot out (even when I'm walking for exercise in 90 degrees and North Carolina humidity).

    If I find I'm shooting Lawnsteel a lot, I'm likely to buy a piece of leather and make up a leg shield to keep the cylinder gap blast off my leg when resting on my knee or thigh, but for a start, I'll probably sit upright and hold with both hands.

  16. #36
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    This looks like fun, friendly but still competition.
    Nothing is impossible for the person that does not have to do it.

  17. #37
    Boolit Buddy gunarea's Avatar
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    Hey TCLouis
    The comradery in Lawnsteel has no equal in sport shooting competitions. Our motto is, "I don't want to beat you on your worst day, I want to beat you on your best day". Urban rambos who engage in make believe life and death senarios will not enjoy this lighthearted play period. As to the level of marksmanship, Lawnsteel can challenge even the best. It is very common for the intended target to have less than 5 square inches available for a successful engagement. Bear in mind the target will be no less than 45 yards away and only "iron sights" are permitted. Out at 70 or so yards, a 38 special hit must be in the head to topple a turkey. During the concentration of a shot engagement it is completely legal and encouraged to point a finger only three inches away and exclaim "I'm not touching you, I'm not touching you, I'm not touching you".
    Everyone in my family plays this game(wife, children, nieces, nephews, in-laws, outlaws, grandchildren). From eight years old to 77 years old is the age spread we enjoy. When the eight year old grandson shot his first full blown Lawnsteel game, our senior player was 72 and shot it with him. That game had six players and the young boy made no protocol or safety fouls.
    Now, please excuse me, it is time to drive to someone elses range and play some Lawnsteel.
    Roy

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunarea View Post
    Out at 70 or so yards, a 38 special hit must be in the head to topple a turkey.
    And also note that the bullet weight and velocity limits for "small bore" make my .357 Magnum revolver, ballistically, nothing more than a .38 Special with a little more brass in the cartridge. In fact, it looks very much as if the ballistic limits for small bore were taken directly from common .38 Special load data (and not +P, either). I'll shoot the Magnum cartridges, because a) I don't like cleaning the carbon ring from the .38s out of the chamber, and b) reducing the bullet jump can't do any harm to the accuracy (which is still, surely, better than my own ability to see the target and hold the gun steady), but they won't do any more than a .38 Special would at the same range.

  19. #39
    Boolit Buddy gunarea's Avatar
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    Alright now
    While the load limits do look like standard 38 special, most all Lawnsteel shooters actually load to a lower velocity. In both my revolver and closed breech handguns, I load to a velocity of 810fps with a SD of 8fps. We have found a flat point round nose 160gr cast bullet to be most effective on steel. This combo makes for same point of impact from 45 to 70 yards. These rounds have been shown to be pinpoint accurate. Even the second most common round, 44, mostly in 44 mag handcannons. Is loaded to 44 Russian level.
    Most of the revolvers perform about the same using either 38 special brass or 357 mag brass. The 38 does get slightly better gas mileage on powder. There is always one or two handguns which require special diets to keep up with the curve. T/C contenders can be difficult to feed. Just Saturday passed had me working on figuring out how to get yet another damm T/C contender to shoot. Twist rate comes into play at these low velocities and can have dramatic effects. Hard alloy does not obturate properly with the pressures lowered. We will get you some "Best Lube" so you can do some semi-extensive testing and then reconsider cleaning procedures.
    My buddy up there in the hills will show you a good time and share all his Lawnsteel experience with you. Be advised he is considered a "Nickle Grubber". Keep us posted on your experience.
    Roy

  20. #40
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    I've shot some low velocity wadcutters from my Dan Wesson (down to the classic 2.7 gr. Bullseye load under 148 grain wadcutter). I see the closest I can come to your described boolit in a Lee mold (which are the ones I can afford at present) is the 358-158-RF. They have a true round nose the same weight with significantly higher BC, seems it would hold its velocity better, but if the flat nose doesn't slide as much on an off-angle target surface it'll probably do a better job of actually knocking the target down.

    If clip-on wheel weight is too hard, I can alloy in some stick-on; those ingots are barely harder than pure (I can also get pure lead wire and sheet, I think, at an employee discount where I work). At these velocities, I certainly wouldn't plan to shoot anything harder than wheel weight. I need to slug my bore and throats, and get a sizing die as well as a mold -- I'm a firm believer that bullet fit is more important than hard alloy, even when pushing things a bit. If the bullet fills the grooves, it doesn't have to be hard...

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check