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Thread: International Lawn Steel shooting

  1. #1
    Boolit Master



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    International Lawn Steel shooting

    Has anybody heard of this? I was just wondering how it works. An old friend of mine won some medals at the Sunshine State Games in this discipline with T/C contenders in 357 and 44 mag.

    Thanks
    Bob
    GUNFIRE! The sound of Freedom!

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy
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    Never heard of it.
    But the website makes it look...interesting. http://internationallawnsteelshooter...m/default.aspx

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    God bless folks with a sense of humor who like to shoot.
    Paul

  4. #4
    Boolit Master



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    Thanks, I didn't come up with anything on the search. Actually sounds like fun. Rusty, the guy who won some of the medals is a friend from way back, although I haven't seen him in years. Hasn't changed much though.

    Bob
    GUNFIRE! The sound of Freedom!

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmeisel View Post
    God bless folks with a sense of humor who like to shoot.
    Indeed! They don't take themselves too seriously, and that's a good thing.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  6. #6
    I'm A Honcho!

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    Old thread, but I have discovered a group of these shooters here in Eastern Central Florida, Volusia County to be exact.

    I have been looking to find a formal web site for this organization, and the previous link seems to have gone the way of the dodo bird.

    The new and current site is linked in my tagline

    The group of 6 or so shooters arrive on Tuesday mornings, and set up their array of assorted steel targets. They play for nickels, and even though I have watched them several times, I don't get a real sense for the rules. They seem to load only light loads, having to put their gun vertical, and bump it with their hand to jostle the powder down by the primer end in order to get enough power to barely knock down a target.

    They have a verbal patter: "I am in the game, and have an animal target, #6" The rest report, "I see it"... Seems person keeps track of where they are during the game. There were nickels on the tables next to their lawn chairs. "LETS" (It's their way of keeping score)

    Hoping that resurrecting this old thread will provide some path to the official rules for this GAME.

    btw, I commented that I bet my .500 Magnum would do well (with massive knockdown power), but the reply was that the loads are so light (both powder and bullets) that the 500 didn't fare well during the testing. I encourage all to read this entire thread, beginning to end. Lots of details contained therein.

    I have become a member of the ILSA group, and I do pretty well with LETS. Read on!
    Last edited by DukeInFlorida; 07-05-2019 at 11:59 AM.


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  7. #7
    Boolit Mold
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    This sounded intreating so I looked around. Duke, I found this and it looks like its in your home state. I wish they would have something like that around here. Bu, then again it also sounds like when my family gets together to shoot skeet in the back yard at my folks house. http://www.flssa.org/pdf/mc/MC1209.pdf

  8. #8
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    Yes, well.............. I also looked around, and found that same document. As soon as I saw the name, I recognized it as one of the guys who plays the game weekly at my club.

    The Roy Kramer that is mentioned in that pdf file, and the write up about the game, turns out to be THE GUY who invented the game, and one of the 6 or so guys who shoot the game every Tuesday AM at the Volusia County Gun and Hunt Club in New Smyrna Beach, FL.

    I had the opportunity to visit with the shooters and Roy, at the start of my RSO shift at the club yesterday. He lives (for now) nearby, and after they packed up and left for lunch, he came back and brought me a printed copy of the RULES for the game. I would otherwise scan them, turn them into a pdf file, and host it here.

    However, Roy asked me to hold off on that, and come and play the game with them next Wednesday AM. I already like the game, or at least the idea of it... super reduced loads, needs very soft bullets (range lead is near perfect), and great fun shooting at a myriad of targets.

    The reason he's asked me to hold off until I play the game is because he started the ILSA in 1998, but because he did no promoting of it, it died from lack of members in August of 2013. He took the web site down. (Since revitalized!!!, link in my tagline) He tells me that there are three or four groups, mostly in the South, that are still playing the game. I'm asking him if he wants me to re-do the web site for him, do some simple marketing, and see what happens. I think he wants to see if I'm serious before he proceeds. BTW, Roy is one of the members here. I mentioned MY own on-line name, and that I am mostly known in the swaging area. He didn't offer up his own on-line name.

    I'll invite him to join this discussion.
    Last edited by DukeInFlorida; 07-05-2019 at 12:00 PM.


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  9. #9
    Boolit Mold
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    Duke, it sounds like good clean fun... I would very much be interested in hearing about your shoot.
    The rules and a description of the targets also.

  10. #10
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    Lawnsteel

    OK, now you got my handle, here is the game. Lawnsteel is played while reclined in a lawnchair lounger.
    The first obvious queery is how often do players shoot themselves in the foot? With one notable exception, a single time in twenty plus years. A particularly stupid person did in fact shoot herself on three seperate and different occasions. Her range privileges have since been fully suspended with no options available for review. There have been a couple other shoes and a flip flop get a small groove installed. It would seem there is a cure for some of the stupid out there, gunshot.
    Small caliber is limited to a .358"(or smaller) 160gr. projectile traveling less than 875 fps measured at 8 ft from the muzzle. Large caliber (.358" or larger) allows a 250gr., maximum weight, projectile traveling less than 850 fps measured at 8 ft from the muzzle. In matches and tournaments there is no fudge factor and limits are strictly enforced with disqualification. Open play is more forgiving but less tolerant.
    There are sixty five steel targets set semi randomly by the shooters in the given game. Target set is accepted by the majority rule. All target distances are by rule, plus or minus one to ten yard/s from a prescribed distance. A linejudge is elected from within the game group to preside during the game. Selection of a target is governed by many factors. One of these conditions exists deep in the head of the individual player and escapes explanation. With few exceptions, target selection is the choice of the player. All four card suits are present as target shapes. Also there is a ***** target shape(QTS are 6"X12") commonly refferred to as a kwit and pronounced "QUIT". The qualifying targets are a seven and a half inch circle atop a stem four inches high with varing width dimensions set at (+/- 30 ft) 55 yards. Money/point targets (18 by rule with 19 accepted in Florida and California) are all silhouette animal presentations. To "cash" on an animal target, a player must earn an animal shot by successfully toppling a called arbitrary target once "in the game". Hit or miss, an animal shot only lives for a single attempt. In turn each player will announce the condition of their game and declare which target they will engage. With accepted acknowledgement and supervision, that player may bring their handgun into full battery and fire upon the intended target. One shot per player per turn. Games may only last for fifty minutes. Game is over when all animal targets are down. Game is over when all arbitrary targets are down and all animal shots are exhausted.
    Target set can be a very critical part of Lawnsteel. Players can choose to increase challenge by turning targets to an angle greater or less than perpendicular to the shooting line. Another favorite challenge is to set targets in front of or behind other targets. After shooting this game over twenty years, I have been witness to some target sets that defy description with print.
    Advertising Lawnsteel has never been my intent. This game is a gift I share. My grandson began playing this game when he was seven years old. The safety involved will allow nearly anyone to participate. Demand has placed me as teacher for shooting, reloading, casting and mentor. I accept this role as payment for guidance received in my youth. Yeah, I'm mr. Lawnsteel.
    Roy
    Last edited by gunarea; 01-04-2017 at 07:33 PM.

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master



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    Greetings
    When I first read the title I thought it was an easier way of saying the other steel critter shooting.
    This sounds very informal and would certainly make for a pleasant morning or afternoon of relaxful shooting. Low noise, low recoil and certainly nothing to overstress a competitor.
    Mike in Peru
    "Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
    Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.

  12. #12
    I'm A Honcho!

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    Roy, let me know if you would like for me to scan and turn the Rules into a pdf so I could share those with the guys.

    Orville


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  13. #13
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    With Roy Kramer's permission, I have scanned and posted the OFFICIAL rules of the ILSA.

    OFFICIAL RULES OF LAWNSTEEL <<< Here's the rules for download!

    I got a chance to play three games with the guys last Wednesday, and quickly found out that my 4" Ruger GP100 in 38 special light loads doesn't have enough accuracy (the shooter was amazing!) to hit the steel targets at the official distance of 200 feet. I suffered through the first game that way, and then one of the guys allowed me to use his T/C Contender in 44 mag, with mouse fart loads behind a 210 grain cast boolit. Once I dialed his sights in for my eyes (had to adjust my aim point, he wouldn't let me mess with his sights.... hahaha), I was knocking them down, and regaining some nickels.

    Next time I play, I will bring my S&W SS 44 mag with 6 3/8 barrel, and see how that runs. However, I am looking for a T/C Contender in 44 mag or 357 mag with 10" barrel. Iron sights.

    Roy Kramer says that the "official organization" is currently down due to lack of membership. However, if we can get some excitement going for the game, I will re-do his web site for him.
    Last edited by DukeInFlorida; 07-05-2019 at 12:03 PM.


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  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Cool! A set of PDF patterns for the animal targets (or reference to IHMSA etc. standards) would be a welcome addition to the rules. I know a few folks I might be able to take some LETS from, er, introduce to this game (their common pronunciation when plinking with handguns and rifles being "we can't hit s#!+ with a handgun")...

  15. #15
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    The target(s), both in terms of the steel to be used, and the size, shape, and design, including bases, of the non-animal targets are covered in the set of rules. The information begins on Page 10 of the PDF file, and continues onto Page 11. I've re-read that area a few times, and while there's some leeway in terms of actual size or the targets and bases, the idea is very straightforward.

    However, as you point out, the animal targets are not defined at all.

    I'll see if I can get Roy to get me the specs for those. Or, maybe allow me to trace the outlines from his set. Some of the targets are rather big. The idea of the game is to knock the targets OVER, not just hit them. And, shot placement is critical to success. The big ram and the big pig require head shots, or shots high on the target. So far, I am lucky to just hit the damn things. LOL

    The set of targets I shot at on that Wednesday were very well worn. Pock marked, and concave from being shot at a million times. One nice thing about this game is that the loads are all pretty light weight, and even mild steel will hold up well. I'm not sure if ASTM series 60 or better describes hot rolled or cold rolled. But, you don't have to invest in that very expensive class 500 rifle bullet proof steel.

    If someone wants to create a set of drawings for these, I would be happy to host the file(s). I don't have sufficient drafting skills to create the drawings, however.
    Last edited by DukeInFlorida; 04-28-2014 at 10:52 AM.


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  16. #16
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    Got a call from Roy Kramer last night, and he is going to get me the specifics on the targets that aren't already documented elsewhere. I'll post that info as soon as I get it.

    An old link which previously worked with this video was deleted by the previous creator of the video. So, I am re-providing my own videos.
    Here they are:


    Last edited by DukeInFlorida; 01-06-2017 at 07:22 PM.


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  17. #17
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    Here are the silhouettes for most of the animal targets:
    Silhouette sizes:

    Chicken Pig Turkey Ram
    Width 13 in (33 cm) 22 in (56 cm) 19 in (48 cm) 32 in (81 cm)
    Height 11 in (28 cm) 14 in (36 cm) 23 in (58 cm) 27 in (69 cm)

    Roy advises that ILSA allows for +/- 1/2" from these.

    And, the shapes:


    Courtesy: IHMSA and WikiPedia

    And, actual target data for IHMSA targets direct from their site:
    http://www.ihmsa.org/targets/

    Roy tells me that there's also a "mouse" target (think Dizzy World, mickey and minnie.... you get the idea), and a Joe Corpsman target. Roy will get me images with dimensions of those.
    Last edited by DukeInFlorida; 04-30-2014 at 12:37 PM.


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  18. #18
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    neat , will download the rules , looks fun

    I herd of these guys years ago , but like the other guy , thought it was a different name for the other steel shooting
    Schamankungulo

    Matt. 5:14-16

  19. #19
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    Trust me............ It's entirely different than any other shooting that you or I have ever done. And, because of the very light loads, even young folks could safely shoot the steel.
    Most shooting experiences are very serious. This game is much more like playing cribbage with your best friends. Lots of chatter on the shooting line, and great fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by HollandNut View Post
    neat , will download the rules , looks fun

    I herd of these guys years ago , but like the other guy , thought it was a different name for the other steel shooting


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  20. #20
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    I attended last Wednesday's shoot as an observer (I had an elderly shooter buddy with me, and we had to leave early to make a plane in Daytona).

    Made a video, which I have uploaded to Youtube:



    Roy also sent me the additional image for the remaining targets, which I will upload as soon as I can.


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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check