444 Marlin vs 44 Magnum

[frankenfab]

"What model number is the one on top?"

It's a 444SS, which has conventional rifling, as do all the other guns. The BFR is a pussycat, really. Now the Lone Eagle was almost unbearable till I put the brake on it.

I don't have a 405 gr. mold, but SuperMag's boolet sure looks nice. I know 6pt-Sika has come up with a couple nice 375 & 400 gr. designs. My favorite load is a 300 Speer soft point over 48gr. H322. The only boolet I have is a 300 gr. WFN.

"So I don't really see the reasoning behind your post ."---All in fun I'm sure, but of course those baby's are some of my most prized (not for sale!), and 2 are no longer made.

I think 44 Mags are great, by the way, but........

[Suo Gan]

I doubt seriousely if Frankenfab would take $500 for any ONE of them much less all four !

And nowhere did I see him say that he wished to sell them !

So I don't really see the reasoning behind your post .

It was a JOKE! IT WAS A JOKE! The reasoning behind it was humor. How can you not get that?

[gon2shoot]

I dont have a 444, I do have an excelent Browning 92 44mag, I (generally) run a 250gr boolit at roughly 1650fps. If that aint enough I get a real gun, the 45 colt or step up to the 45-70 with 405 gr at 1500fps. I really dont feel under-gunned with the 44, but some game/conditions necessitate a little more thump, I'm thinking thats the answer to your question "conditions".

[dualsport]

Tough room.

[Leadforbrains]

I have a 1894 Marlin .44 magnum and a .444 Marlin P Outfitter.
I love the both of them.
Please don't make me choose

[bearcove]

It was a JOKE! IT WAS A JOKE! The reasoning behind it was humor. How can you not get that?

Some things never change.

[Dan444]

I can see that hyperbole does not bother you Dan (I am sure we would get along fine). I mean the way you list hot loads for your 444 and wimpy ones for the 44 mag...but it was done to emphasize a point, so I can forgive you this time . I can see that you are truly lustful after the 444 being that it is part of your handle and all, I am going to the dictionary now to look up subjective and objective...

I'm not demeaning the 44 mags; I really like my Marlin 336-44 and 1894-44. My 44 mag loads with a 290gr HC going at 1650 fps MV are not "wimpy ones", at least in my rifles.

Dan

[EOD3]

Simply put-- 405 grain boolits at 1775 fps...

.

I must have missed the news story. When did they open a season on Woolly Mammoth?

I guess I shouldn't talk, I shoot a couple 45/70 with 300 to 500 boolets...

[S.R.Custom]

I must have missed the news story. When did they open a season on Woolly Mammoth?

The whole purpose of the .444 when it was conceived was to create a compact, (relatively) high pressure version of the 45/70. Only problem was, when the rubber finally met the road, no one on the ammunition end would step up to the rubber. So we ended up with 265 gr flat points...

So true to the gun's original purpose, I hatched a 405 gr boolit --courtesy of Mountain Moulds-- and parked it over a lump of AA2230. This particular boolit was dimensioned to perfectly fit the throat on my Winnie Big Bore. (And speaking of the Winnie, it has a twist of 1:20, so you can forget about boolits like this in the 1:38 Marlins.)

But yeah, the recoil does tend to spin you around a bit. I mean, what would you expect a stoutly loaded, 6.5 lb. 45/70 to do?

[NHlever]

I know that some of you won't believe this, but ways have been found to flatten trajectory that seem to work better than pushing big, fat boolits faster! It's true! Really! I'll play the devil's advocate here, and note that the .444 is heavier in the same configuration than a 45-70, and neither is a really flat shooting caliber...... honest. Layne Simpson did shoot a caribou at something like 265 yards with his .444 but that wouldn't be a stretch for a .308 either. I really like larger bores, and have .44's, 45's, 45-70's, etc. and have owned a nice Win .444 ( wish I hadn't sold that one now), but big bores kill by boolit shape, and weight. Velocity has little to do with it except for making range estimation slightly easier at over 100 yards. If you look carefully at the trajectory difference between retnia detaching loads with a 300 gr over the starting loads, you will see what I mean over average hunting distances. I haven't really looked, but I doubt that a 300 gr. boolit out of a .444 shoots much flatter than a 240 gr. out of a .44 mag and since both will shoot through anything I have shot so far, the difference is lost in the air beyond the target.

[helice]

SauGan,

I have a couple of 44 rifles and a 444 in the Winchester Big Bore. I'm sad to say that my 444 is the newer model which Winchester "IMPROVED" to the 1 in 38" twist configuration... I like each rifle but I like the 444 for its versitility. I have 444 loads with a 170 grain LBT-OWC that gets 900 ft/sec. Sort of like a 44 Special. The kids aren't scared by that one. 13 gr Red Dot under 280 LBT-LFN gets 1400'/s ie. 44 Mag pistol velocities. With 300 grain RCBS SWC I can duplicate and the greatly excede the 44 Mag rifle loads. Yes the gun can get brutal with heavy cast at higher velocity but I don't practice with them.

Am I wedded to the 444? No.
Will I ever need that excess it gives over the 44 Mag? Probably not.
Why did I buy it? I had all these 44 caliber moulds and I like big bores.
Would I sell it? Sure as long as I can keep the B-92 in 44Mag and the Rossi in 45Colt.
What can I say --- I like big rifles.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I'm sure that the 44 with a stout loading and a heavy boolit would do the trick on our Elk sized Sambar deer. However, the case is too short to be legal for them. But then again, why take marginal when you can take more than adequate? A solid load in the 444 sure does shiver me timbers though!

[Blammer]

I haven't really looked, but I doubt that a 300 gr. boolit out of a .444 shoots much flatter than a 240 gr. out of a .44 mag and since both will shoot through anything I have shot so far, the difference is lost in the air beyond the target.

Unless you're lining up two deer with one shot.

[wiljen]

the 444 would be more useful with a faster twist so it would stabilize something beyond 300gr. Most wont and thus lose utility.

[EOD3]

Unless you're lining up two deer with one shot.

End to end!

[Four Fingers of Death]

the 444 would be more useful with a faster twist so it would stabilize something beyond 300gr. Most wont and thus lose utility.

That's why I went for a later one. I'll be working out loads for it as soon as my right wing is healed up.

[wiljen]

That's why I went for a later one. I'll be working out loads for it as soon as my right wing is healed up.

Somebody did some tests years ago where they put a 1:16 twist on a DeHaas (may have been DeHaas for that matter) and played with 450gr+ bullets out of the 444. I came away wishing they'd make a 444 with a lot faster twist as the one I had with the micro-groove **** wouldnt stabilize anything over 265gr and was iffy with those.

Good to know they finally wised up and went to a twist that would do more. Now if they'd do the same for the .41 Mag.

[Dixie Slugs]

Well, All this is very interesting, although this has been kicked around for some time indeed!
Now....I know I am older than dirt and in years past killed plenty of deer and hogs even with the so-called out-dated Win 44-40.
My walking gun is a Marlin 1894P and my 265 gr. Truncated cast bullet. I have seen and shot some 444, but really have not needed the extra weight, recoil, etc....but that is just me!
In my opinion, there is no arguement between the two guns....just pick the one that suits your hunting situation!
The trend seems to be for extra heavy ullets in both guns, but does that trend really relate to average hunting situations?....I think not, after all how dead is dead!
The 44's are light, fast, brush guns and are great when used as they were designed. Under most actaul hunting situations, any 44 Mag will put five shots in the boiler room of deer and hogs.
The 444's have a place where the larger gun may be needed for larger game. However, if I need more power (or range), I just pull out one of my 06's
I think the basic problem here, between the 44 mag and 444, is trying to make either one an all-around-gun rather than understanding that they both sercve ceratin needs.
It looks like the situation of buying a car that will run 120 mph and then using it at 65 mph?
Of course I understand a 75 year old doesn't know jack about hunting today....really?....James

[Four Fingers of Death]

In reality, there's not much game around that a 240Gn boolit out of either the 44Mag or the 444 won't handle. That is, apart from dangerous game and if I'm hunting dangerous game, much as I love my leverguns and cast boolits, it will be with a good bolt gun or a No1 with premium bullets. I ain't about to try and re-invent the wheel in an area that has been thoroughly thrashed out over 100 years and more.

[pmeisel]

Y'all got me real curious now. Anybody know offhand what the twist is in the 444 Handi-Rifle and how big a bullet it might handle? I finally have the wife warmed up to another rifle....