444 Marlin vs 44 Magnum

[44 flattop]

I own ONE 44 MAG rifle and two revolvers .

I also own NINETEEN Marlin rifles chambered for 444 .

No I DO NOT think the 444 is the end all cartridge but I do like shooting cast in them !

A bit of a flipside for me! I own over 20 .44 mag or special revolvers and 5 rifles in .44 mag. But no 444's anymore. I only hunt game up to elk and the .44's have handled that easily for many decades for me. That being said, I've cast for and loaded for at least 3 different 444's of family members, so I've shot thousands of 444 rounds. All of my family members use a 360gr cast at 2050fps and it also does a bangup job on elk.

I am also an advocate of the 45-70 which I happen to hold in higher regard then the 444 . However the 45-70 with my cast handloads is not quite as pleasent to shoot . But that could be more due to the buttplates on my old 45-70's then anything else .

I don't take a side on 444 vs 45-70. But I do love my '86's in 45-70 and 45-90

44

[Pirate69]

Thought I would share my 44 Mag results. These are from a Marlin 1895.

I bought a Lee 240 grain "fat" mold from a fellow member that drops bullets at 0.435". I loaded a few unsized to see what kind of results I would get. They turned out to be fairly tight chambering in my rifle and pistol. I had gotten rid of all of them except five rounds. This is how they grouped at 100 yards off of bags/bench. Wished I had five more to complete the 10- round group.



This ten-round, 100-yard group uses the 0.435" boolits sized by a Lee 0.430" sizer.



This ten-round, 50-yard group uses the 0.435" boolits sized by a Lee 0.430" sizer also.





Looks like there may be a potential to gain a little more accuracy with a bigger boolit. May see if I can open the sizer 0.002". Does not look like I am getting any leading at this point. This falls right into the range that NickSS has seen.

[Multigunner]

Well I've only shot the .44 Magnum in handguns, but recognize its great potential as a carbine round.
The comparasion of .44 Mag to .444 is less apples and oranges than oranges to grapefruit. Limiting to cast only the .444 loses much of its advantages while remaining a long cartridge with reduced tube mag capacity compared to the .44 Mag.

Based on the availability of many fine .44 Magnum revolvers I'd go with a Pistol carbine combo of .44 Mag.
The .444 might be available in the single shot handguns, but I never got interested in those.

The .444 has somewhat better potential in long barreled rifles, but a much smaller selection of rifles available in that chambering.

Thats my .02 any way.

[Charley]

Here's my M94 AE in .444. Not currently looking for a better load for it. Three at 100 yards, from a rest, 1x4 scope.

[Pirate69]

I don't think I would be looking for a better load either!!!!!!!

[Suo Gan]

I gotta say I love you guys, every ugly, furry last one of you! I am glad people like yourselves exist in our world.

But just basing what you believe on size and muzzle blast, never got anyone anywhere...uh well maybe it did

I know the 444 can hold another inch of powder than a 44 mag case, and I know they can sling a bigger boolit faster and flatter than its little brother. But I guess I wonder if my Little Winchester who can push a 245 grainer downrange starting at close to 2000 fps and do it accurately, would I be much better off pushing a 300 grainer 2400 fps (out of the 444 of course)? Better yes, but would it make that deer deader? And am I going to have to run harder more expensive alloys to do it?

So what would you do? Sell the 44 mag carbine that fits in a horse scabbard or on the truck seat and holds 10 rounds and basically glides like butter through poison oak tangles, and trade up for a 444 that could probably more reliably anchor bigger critters better, but not be as handy. And trade up for 200-400 fps and 55 grns of boolit? Is it that much better to justify?

I know, I know, just keep both right? One in one hand, one in the other

Thanks again for all your comments and pictures! You made my day.

[Suo Gan]

Nice groups guys.

[Dan444]

This is apples and oranges.

My Marlin 444 will push 290gr cast bullets at 2250 fps MV while my 336 & 1894 44 mags will push the same bullet (max loads) at 1650 fps best case.

Comparing the triple-4 to a pistol cartridge (44 mag) is like comparing a 356 Win. to a 357 mag..

Dan

[Suo Gan]

This is apples and oranges.

My Marlin 444 will push 290gr cast bullets at 2250 fps MV while my 336 & 1894 44 mags will push the same bullet (max loads) at 1650 fps best case.

Comparing the triple-4 to a pistol cartridge (44 mag) is like comparing a 356 Win. to a 357 mag..

Dan

I can see that hyperbole does not bother you Dan (I am sure we would get along fine). I mean the way you list hot loads for your 444 and wimpy ones for the 44 mag...but it was done to emphasize a point, so I can forgive you this time . I can see that you are truly lustful after the 444 being that it is part of your handle and all, I am going to the dictionary now to look up subjective and objective...

[Tony65x55]

The .444 fires a heavier bullet faster. Comparing it to a .44 Magnum is analogous to comparing a .35 Remington to a .35 Whelen. They only thing they have in common is their caliber. The .444 is not a stretched .44 Mag but is based on the .30-06 case. If a .44 Mag fills your requirements for a rifle cartridge, that's wonderful. But to compare it to the big Marlin is to demean a very good cartridge that is unrecognized for its qualities. Think of it as a modern day .405 Winchester (300 gr at 2200 fps.)

[Suo Gan]

The 44 mag is a serious caliber that can be run up to 1950 fps using a 245 grain boolit in a rifle. That makes it a serious caliber in my book. But there is no way in heck it is an equal to the 444 Marlin. I should have titled this thread, "What Can the 444 Marlin do that a 44 mag Can't?" And for the record I don't run them hot except for hunting and setting sights for hunting boolits, they hurt too much!

[dualsport]

I have a single shot .444 with Ballard type rifling, I was thinking of trying some black powder in it, easy enough to clean up, maybe some heavy soft lead boolits? Anyway, I agree with the guys who point out it's all about what you want to do with it. My hunting buddies have a saying, "Dead's dead."

[Lloyd Smale]

heres an article my best friend wrote a few years back on the 444. Some good load info in it. http://www.leverguns.com/articles/an...4Outfitter.htm

[Tony65x55]

The 44 mag is a serious caliber that can be run up to 1950 fps using a 245 grain boolit in a rifle. That makes it a serious caliber in my book. But there is no way in heck it is an equal to the 444 Marlin. I should have titled this thread, "What Can the 444 Marlin do that a 44 mag Can't?" And for the record I don't run them hot except for hunting and setting sights for hunting boolits, they hurt too much!

I understand, thanks for the clarification. The .44 Mag is a wonderful cartridge and many big, sometimes nasty, critters have fallen to it. Without question. What the .444 does is provide those same excellent killing abilities for another 50-100 yards and/or provide an extra margin of power for killing big and/or tough animals.

For example, the warm load you list above has a Taylor Knock Out value of 29 (2068 ft/lbs energy.) A 300 grain bullet at 2200 fps from a .444 has a TKO of 40 (3223 ft/lbs energy), a considerable increase.

Using another recognized scale, the Thornily rating for the .44 Mag load is 130, making it suitable for Elk, Moose, Kudu, Zebra, Large African Safari Plains Game. The .444 load has a rating of 179, making it suitable the above, as well as Lion, Leopard, Grizzly Bear, Brown Bear. If we add the 350 gr load, at 2000 fps, the Thornily rating goes to 190.

Does it recoil? You bet. Does it hammer big critters? You bet.

That's what the .444 does that the .44 mag doesn't. You can always load a .444 down to .44 mag levels and shoot pistol bullets, but you can't load a .44 Mag up to .444 levels and use rifle bullets. You get all this power in a light, easy to carry, fast handling Marlin lever gun weighing 7 1/2 lbs with scope. My .444XLR has had it's barrel bobbed to 20", wears a Williams aperture sight and weighs 7 lbs on the money. Like most .444's, it is superbly accurate.

If you don't require this level of power, so be it. A deer hunter can live a long life and never require more power than a .44 Mag is capable of producing, or a .30-30, or a .243. But if you live where I live, where a wounded 1,000 lb moose can put three miles of two foot deep ice water and muskeg between you and your winter meat in short order, where black bears routinely run into the 500+lb class, the extra anchoring power of the big Marlin is well worth the recoil.

I hope this explains it.

[NHlever]

I think the slant of the original question is more about what can be accomplished in the field with these cartridges than what they will "do" speed wise, or boolit weight wise. I've had both, and only have a .44 mag now. My thought is that it will do anything in the field that most short / medium range big bore guns will do in my area of the country. We do have moose hunting here by permit now, so that thought might change, but I doubt there is a moose that won't fall at the ranges we see here in the woods with either my .308, or 45-70. For the average deer / boar hunter a .44 with traditional weight boolits will shoot right through, and that will do anything that can be done with a similar boolit design, and diameter. I've tried the heavier boolits, but tend to like the somewhat flatter trajectory, lower recoil, and greater stability of the standard 240- 260 grain boolits. In jacketed bullets, I do, however, like the Hornady 265, and Speer 270 grain bullets, partly because their construction is better suited to the rifles I use. The .444 is a great caliber with those same bullets, of course, I just don't see the need for the larger gun, and ammo for most uses in this area.

[S.R.Custom]

What can a 444 Marlin do that a 44 mag cannot with cast (in a rifle)?

Simply put-- 405 grain boolits at 1775 fps...

.

[frankenfab]

Supermag,

Well said. What mold is that?

[Suo Gan]

I'll start the bidding for the four gun lot at $500. Is there any brass included in the deal? What model number is the one on top? Is that the mx? I bet that BFR sure does raise up when you fire that 405 grn monster...

[6pt-sika]

I'll start the bidding for the four gun lot at $500. Is there any brass included in the deal?

I doubt seriousely if Frankenfab would take $500 for any ONE of them much less all four !

And nowhere did I see him say that he wished to sell them !

So I don't really see the reasoning behind your post .

[6pt-sika]

[QUOTE=frankenfab;897064]Supermag,

Well said. What mold is that?

QUOTE]

I'd be intrested in one of those molds as well !