A myth about water and molten lead

[FAsmus]

Gentelmen;

I have a very real water-in-the-alloy story for you.

Here in Wyoming I cast in an unheated shed. I like to work at casting in temperatures well below freezing since the turkey-burner furnace I use makes things too hot for comfort when things get much warmer than 40 degrees.

~ Anyway; I typically run off a potfull of bullets and before I go inside I re-fill the pot with fresh alloy for the next time.

In doing this I necessarily have to pass pieces of basic material into the empty pot. This naturally includes passing things like handfulls of sub-freezing wheel-weights and Linotype ingots through the hot gasses being produced by the turkey-cooker flames. The cold material collects condensed water vapor on their surfaces from the gasses and PRESTO! As I put the cold metal into the hot pool of alloy in the pot - well below the surface in some cases - I have steam explosions jumping right at me. It really doesn't take much water at all to make things quite exciting.

The worst problem is with WW clips which accumulate condensed water droplets under the clips virtually instantly during their trip through the hot gasses.

The solution is to turn off the burner while adding material - then turn it back on to melt it into the preferred alloy ready for next time.

I doubt many of you cast in the cold over a turkey-cooker but if you do ~ Watch it!

Good evening,
Forrest

[jabilli]

Yep, haha I remember the shock and awe I had when I took a good number of wet reject bullets and wet sprue nuggets and plopped them in. Lesson learned. What a mess. I had the sense to wear goggles though.

I just made a video today and made sure to include that in my tips- Just dipped a spoon in water and only with the residual wetness of the spoon dipped it in to show folks on a small scale what happens.

Video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRPYp...ure=plpp_video

cut to 5:45 if you want to only see the reaction

[stubshaft]

I have had an "intimate" relationship with the Tinsel Fairy already. There was no myth involved!

[a.squibload]

... As I put the cold metal into the hot pool of alloy in the pot...

Just had a thought (rare, I know) about a fry-basket or something like that
suspended over the pot for a few minutes to heat up the WWs.
Maybe on a couple pieces of angle iron. That might save you some propane
not having to shut it down and start it up again.
If it's really cold sometimes I use a propane torch to drive off moisture
before throwing stuff in the pot.

Or you could get a lid!

I found a tiny splat of lead on my face shield, didn't notice where it came from.
Was stuck right in front of my eye.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

My offer to the OP that claimed the exploding pot was a myth to stand in front of my turkey cooker full of molten alloy and pee in the pot has still not been taken up. I offered him a substantial sum of money to do so in front of a camera, but to date he has refused.

[MikeS]

It's not only water that makes the tinsel fairy appear. If you pour hot lead into cold (but dry) ingot moulds, they will do a dance! Once I decided to mix up some more alloy (which involves a turkey fryer and ingot moulds), and it was cold outside (well, for FL at least) I think it was either in the upper 40's, or lower 50's, I took the sheet of drywall like substance that I put over the cement benches in the backyard, fired up the turkey fryer, and set my ingot moulds on the board. Once everything was mixed, and fluxed, and ready to pour into the ingot moulds I started pouring. I got my first ingot mould filled, and was halfway thru the second one when the first exploded, it jumped about 8" into the air, emptying itself in my general direction!

[Longwood]

It's not only water that makes the tinsel fairy appear. If you pour hot lead into cold (but dry) ingot moulds, they will do a dance! Once I decided to mix up some more alloy (which involves a turkey fryer and ingot moulds), and it was cold outside (well, for FL at least) I think it was either in the upper 40's, or lower 50's, I took the sheet of drywall like substance that I put over the cement benches in the backyard, fired up the turkey fryer, and set my ingot moulds on the board. Once everything was mixed, and fluxed, and ready to pour into the ingot moulds I started pouring. I got my first ingot mould filled, and was halfway thru the second one when the first exploded, it jumped about 8" into the air, emptying itself in my general direction!

Does ANYTHING ever dry completely in Florida?

[dagger dog]

I have had 2 close calls.

Once while casting jig heads for fishing, it had been raining and stopped, so I sat my melting pot on the burner, started dipping as soon as the melt was ready,accidently dropped a dipper full of molten lead on the WET concrete, that resulted in an explosion of lead and concrete that spattered me but caused no permanate damage other than a 1/2" deep 2X2" crater in my patio.

The second was while casting bullets in the garage, I put about 4 one pound smelted and cleaned ingots in my bottom pour pot, went about getting other things ready and seeing the thermometer was showing "just right" decided I would add another ingot, well it didn't explode but BOILED VIOLENTLY, which resulted in me leaving and spread molten lead all over the pot and bench.

The ingots had been stored outside in an old cabinet and were about a year old were oxidized badly with that grey dusty coating. The day of casting was a very humid day and all I could figure out was that the oxidation held the moisture,though they didn't feel wet.

The first 4 ingots were heated slowly as the pot came to casting temp., not a problem but adding the 5th COLD MOIST ingot to the 700 degree pot of molten lead pushed what moisture that was trapped in the oxidizied coating under the surface and was turned into steam, and caused the rapid boil.

Glad I had leather shoes and long sleeves!

[Alan in Vermont]

My offer to the OP that claimed the exploding pot was a myth to stand in front of my turkey cooker full of molten alloy and pee in the pot has still not been taken up. I offered him a substantial sum of money to do so in front of a camera, but to date he has refused.

Idaho, why don't you just dry up and blow away! I read through this whole thing and it strikes me that YOU are the only one who repeatedly has advocated deliberately doing something really stupid so you could prove a point that was never the original focus of this thread. At no point did the OP advocate introducing large quantities of water, at some sort of velocity/pressure, to the pot deliberately.

[Clark]

The last bullet I cast was in 1965.
I drilled a 3/8" holes in a fire brick and poured molten lead into them.
One hole had a rain drop, and it blew molten lead onto my face.

The doctor removed lead that solidified on my eye ball. The lead solidified in the concave shape that fit my eye ball.

Since then I have bought a few mold and tried to get others to cast bullets for me.
I buy cast bullets on line.

[Springfield]

I smelt abut 3000 lbs a year, some sheet lead, some range lead, plumbing pipe,sailboat keels, what ever is cheap. From what I have experienced water on top of the lead, like rain falling in, will do little. Insert a wet object under the water and you will get reactions from extreme boiling to emptying the pot in all directions. Pour hot lead on top of water, like into a wet ingot mould, same thing, either lots of hissing or maybe a POP and lead all over you. The common theme is the water has to get under/into the lead, otherwise it just boils off. A drop of water on top of the lead will not cause an explosion. Peeing into a pot MIGHT get it under the surface, so I won't risk it.

[delt167502]

I worked in a aluminun die cast shop as a foreman.Part of my job was instructing new employees on the do's & don'ts of loading a furnace. 1 of the things is always preheat the material to be added to the melt. You can take molten material and pour it into water,as long as there is room for the gas to excape around the metal.if the holding furnace for the machines,had to be shut down ,to work on the die cast machine.we would cool the metal with a trickle of water from a water hose.when we started back up,as the furnace heated up the water evaporated. It would take as long as 36 hours to reheat the metal.

[DrCaveman]

Just had a nice brain fart to contribute to the 'myth'. Was water quenching a bunch of rifle rounds, got done, and turned down the pot, dumped in the sprue. Took my water bucket, drained it, shook it around, drained it more, using my hand as a seive. Pulled out about 6-7 rejects.

As I was passing back by the (still molten) pot, I casually dropped the rejects in with gloved hand.

Sizzle! Pop!

No splash, no tinsel fairy. Guess the amount of water on the boolits was insignificant enough to not cause the dreaded lead explosion. Or I was lucky.

My experience, from about 15 minutes ago. I will not repeat that mistake, despite my getting away unscathed.

[latesvak]

well no Tinsel Fairy for me yet but i did have a odd thunderstorm come by while i was just about done turning 150 lb of ww into nice clean ingots. the closest thing to the Tinsel Fairy for me would be when i had a 8 qt c.i. pot melting down some range scrap and a live 22lr snuck into the pot. was talking to a friend and it went off sending us running. from now on its double check and lid stays on till its all melted down.


latesvak

[onehousecat]

Just had a nice brain fart to contribute to the 'myth'. Was water quenching a bunch of rifle rounds, got done, and turned down the pot, dumped in the sprue. Took my water bucket, drained it, shook it around, drained it more, using my hand as a seive. Pulled out about 6-7 rejects.

As I was passing back by the (still molten) pot, I casually dropped the rejects in with gloved hand.

Sizzle! Pop!

No splash, no tinsel fairy. Guess the amount of water on the boolits was insignificant enough to not cause the dreaded lead explosion. Or I was lucky.

My experience, from about 15 minutes ago. I will not repeat that mistake, despite my getting away unscathed.

You were a lot luckier than I was. I use a 5 gallon bucket about 1/2 full of water to quench my bullets. I always knock off the spues on the table top, then empty the bullets in the bucket. One sprue hit the floor. I picked it up, looked for water, felt for water and found it dry. I added it to the pot and found it was not dry. The miniscule amount of water on the sprue gave me a case of what looked like measles.

After that, anything that touched the floor only went into the pot at the start of the next casting session. That was my only misadventure in more than 20+ years of casting (and quenching) bullets. Hard lessons stick with you.

[ilcop22]

I had another visit from the tinsel fairy last night. Didn't have my safety glasses on - like a fool - and my inner eye/tear duct got a little burned. Nothing some eye drops couldn't relieve, but still - No fun, and certainly not very smart. I need to glue those things to my face so I stop forgetting they're on my head...

[biker_trash_1340]

Ok, I posted earlier about water and lead. Had a new one today, just popped about 5lbs out of my 4-20 pro. When I set up my dies I always make up some dummy rounds (no powder or primer 100% sure on this). Taking a pair of pliers and holding just the bullet into the melt, on the 3rd or 4th one it happened. This was a complete surprise as I have done this many times. This is what I think happened, I lube all my cast with Alox… that is except one (Lee TC 9mm) that has a lube grove. At one time I pan lubed some to try with a wax based lube. That’s the one that got me… by holding that one under the metal there was no room for the expanding liquid / steam to escape from inside the brass. I was wearing some safety equipment (had one glove off) got lead on my wrist under my watch, on the top / side of my head and under my collar. But all and all I got out lucky.

[Sabaharr]

I had a visit from the tensil fairy about 20 years ago. A buddy and I were melting wheel weights down in his shed and it was nearly 10° outside. I brought the bucket of weights in and slid a handful into the pot. YUP, Frosty the Snowman had left some crystals on the weights and they skipped the liquid state of matter. From solid to gas in a split second. We were both drenched in molten led as was most of his small shed. But being that cold we were very bundled up including ski masks. Hey, 10° is cold for Louisiana. No injuries (excluding pride) at all between us, but a well learned lesson. So watch out for frost or ice on your lead too.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

It appears, from the range of experiences shared, that those who have not yet met the "Tinsel Fairy" are the ones who have not yet replicated the instantaneous lowering of the pot level.

I suggest to you Doubting Thomases that you need only to dip a couple sprues in your quenching bucket and drop them back into the molten alloy to believe.

It's like an AD; there are two groups of shooters. Those who have, and those that are going to.

Rich
the offer still stands.

[Silver Hand]

My first experience with water and lead was casting large sinkers in the late 1960s.
Placing a five pound round of plumbers lead into gas fired 1/2 full 25 lb. pot.
There was the sizzle n steam then the pop.
I was six feet away with my back turned the moment I let go of the pig. I thought I knew what was coming next. It splashed small droplets, about a four foot area in one direction the largest were dime and a few nickle size. I was awaiting a bomb.
Not in this case. Tinsel, Might have been if it had hit a tree.