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Thread: A myth about water and molten lead

  1. #141
    Boolit Buddy
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    First of all, Happy New Year's to everyone!

    I've been fortunate, in that I've never had water get under the surface of the lead. I first cast bullets as a teenager, back in the 70s. My dad gave me his old pot, molds and about 30# of lead a couple of years ago, and I got everything working again (it hadn't been used since I last cast in 1976).

    I've been water quenching my bullets, but I use a 3# coffee can about half full of water, which sits about a foot off the floor, well below the level of the workbench. I float a piece of plywood on the top of the water and drop my bullets from the mold onto the plywood, and let them roll off into the water, so there is no splash. An alternative method I read about elsewhere was to stretch a towel loosely over the quench bucket with a 1-2" hole cut in the center. Drop the bullets on the towel and they roll down and drop through the hole into the water, and the towel catches any resulting splashes.

    I have an electric skillet I bought from a thrift store specifically for casting and reloading. Initially for wax lubing, but I've found that it works well for dumping my quenched bullets into when I'm done casting after I've drained the water from the can. Dump all the bullets, good, rejects, sprue, whatever that was in the water, into the skillet and turn it on simmer for half an hour or so with the lid off. Then let them air cool. Sort the duds for remelting and save the good ones.

    Also, and I guess I just lucked into this one, I always preheat any 1# ingots I'm going to add to the pot by setting them on the top for a while first. I was just preheating them to make them melt faster without dropping the pot temp. I never realized I was drying out any incidental condensation at the same time.

  2. #142
    Boolit Master FAsmus's Avatar
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    Gentlemen;

    Here in Wyoming it is cold. - Time to build inventory!

    I cast with a old cut-down turkey-cooker. This outfit is too hot to run much (if at all) during the warm months so until it cools down to 20 or less it stands idle.

    I water-quench from the mold so when I start the water is quite cool. Most times the temperature in my unheated casting shed is well below freezing.

    When I first began heat-treating from the mold I thought I might have to add some glycol to the water to keep it from freezing. This has not proven to be the case for even when I cast at "0" or so it never gets more than a crust of ice at the edges of the steel quench bucket.

    The deal for this thread is getting water below the surface of molten lead: Since I cast with an open flame what I've run into is the cold ingots collecting condensation as I pass them through the combustion gases on the way to the pot. This has not caused any explosive problems but at times it sure has "crackled" in a most scary way!

    My cure is to place the cold ingots alongside the pot until they get well above 200 degrees before adding them to the melt.

    Good evening,
    Forrest

  3. #143
    Boolit Master dkf's Avatar
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    I have been known to put wet water dropped bullets (didn't pass my QC) into a hot pot from time. A sizzle and a pop or two is all you get.

    This year I was pouring babbit bearing journals. Already poured the bottom half, cleaned it up and prepped it to pour the top half. I prehetated th ecap to about 2 hundred degrees before putting it on but forgot to heat the shaft and caps up more. (go to 350+ deg F preheat before pouring) My mistake resulted in a babbit geyser coming out of pour hole. There was residual moisture on the shaft (sweat) that did not get burned off because I forgot to the final preheat. If I was not wearing glass, gloves, heavy long sleeve shirt and pants I would have gotten burned.

  4. #144
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    RogerDat's Avatar
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    After reading this thread I have to say I have gleaned much valuable information. Never considered what a hot spill would do on concrete, or how cold tools might get condensation that would get thrust into the melt.

    Seems to me as with many other activities that carry some safety risks to be managed consistent safe routine is a good starting point, followed by knowing the "why" you do it that way. Several of the incidents reported seemed to stem from something being different in a way that normal routine that would be generally safe did not take into account. Temperature being different, older oxidized ingots, material melted being more porous etc. I would say that is where knowing the why is important to combine with a assessment of what is different this time.

    Adding steps to the routine such as pre-heat of materials or water drop barriers to splashing that several have mentioned seems a good idea too. I'm probably going to start looking for a counter top oven appliance at thrift stores or garage sales.

    Having and using the safety equipment seems a must too. I hate it when something goes wrong and the item I should have been using is hanging on the wall or sitting on a shelf. Most times when what I'm doing bites me in the butt it's because something different or unexpected enters the mix or I'm doing something trivial so I don't fully set up to do the job. A couple of news papers when touch up painting instead of a full drop cloth would be my most recent example. Dropped the can lid. Cleaning that up took a lot longer than the drop cloth would have.

  5. #145
    Boolit Man
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    I say that water getting into the pot while the lead is molten can lead to an eruption. I say this because it happened to me this summer when I was casting bullets. I was being impatient and hastily dried off some water quenched bullets and dropped them in the pot. I can tell you that I got a lot of lead that blew out some landing on my arm which did not feel all that great.

    I can see how water dripped on top would do nothing as it just goes to steam, but I think the water in the lube groves must have been carried down to the bottom of the pot with the bullets and then turned to steam sending lead flying.

    It does happen as I can attest to.

  6. #146
    Boolit Master FAsmus's Avatar
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    Jonk;

    Far out!

    Forrest

  7. #147
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    After 40 years of working in a heat treat department that used pots of lead as a heating element, I believe I am well acquainted with things that go pop and things that explode in molten lead.
    We always had some newbie who thought it would be fun to see the old guy jump when he threw his snowball at the lead pot. What newbie didn't know was that snowball would sink just below the surface and go off like a bomb. Twice I had over half the lead come out of that pot because some dummy tried to be cute. It held 1200 lbs when full. Fortunately I was able to doge both times as most of it went straight up.
    Mostly I was able to catch them at it before they actually threw the snowball. Those 2 times the newbie ended up draped over a work skid wearing bruises. When the boss found out what had happened he decided it was just self defense and didn't even write me up for punching the guy.

    The point being, water and molten lead don't mix well. You may get away with it a few times but sooner or later if you get careless it will bite you.
    Last edited by tazman; 03-01-2014 at 07:34 PM.

  8. #148
    Boolit Master FAsmus's Avatar
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    Jonk;

    Wow!

    Forrest

  9. #149
    Boolit Mold
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    As a Cable Splicer trained in Lead work, using a Lead Pot to Wipe a Sleeve making joints out of Wiping Solder and Lead. Any water into the pot of 800 degree Lead meant the pot would blow and all the lead goes all over, over the tent if it was raining or all over you if you were in the way of the flying lead. Voice of experience as it has happened to me. I am very careful arround hot lead, in the pot while casting or melting lead to start casting. Don't wear rings, metal watches etc, as hot lead will stick to such items and burn like its on fire instantly. While casting I always drop the sprue into a towel, and the cast bullet into another towel, maybe sometime I will try the way of dropping the cast into water to cool fast. Vern

  10. #150
    Boolit Master

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    Yesterday I learned something about the tinsel fairy. I melt and clean my scrap lead in one of Davy Crockett's cut off propane cylinder pots over a 54,000 BTU fish boiler. I was cleaning some very soft lead from lead pipes so I could extrude it into wire for swaging. I melted a lot of smaller pieces & had about 4 in of melt in the pot. I then started melting some 4 foot sections of 1 ½ in pipe. The pipe had been stored dry for years and I was sure it was dry. WRONG !! It wasn't a very powerful tinsel fairy but I still have several pounds of lead to scrape off my well weathered deck. Treat all pipe like a rifle barrel. Don't point it at anything you don't want to destroy.

    Bob
    Si hostes visibilis, etiam tu

  11. #151
    Boolit Buddy
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    I can only talk from experience and have been casting as long as most of any here. Early on I was unfortunate enough to have spilled some water in a molten pot of lead. I don't know if I would call it an explosion but lead flew everywhere but luckily I escaped being burned. The amount was more than a couple of drops or "dew" on an ingot which I doubt would do nothing more than sizzle for a second or two. Call it what you want but I think the issue is the amount of water it takes to cause a genuine problem.

  12. #152
    Boolit Buddy
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    Back in the 70's, when I was casting for my .45 cal muzzleloader, I was using recycled wheel weights. They were mighty dirty and figured I should at least wash all the oil and junk off them. Even though I understood the "tinsel fairy" problem, I often put them in the pot before they were absolutely dry. Needless to say, I learned my lesson. Now, some 45 years later when I'm getting serious about reloading and casting my own bullets, I've a good recollection of the dreaded tinsel fairy. I know that water spilled on top of a pot of molten lead will do nothing but produce steam. But I'm danged sure that none of my lead has any hidden moisture in it so when I submerge it in the pot it won't blow sky-high.
    Chris

  13. #153
    Boolit Mold VeryOldGuy's Avatar
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    But it works wonders for hardening!
    ​March to Cadence. HOOAH!

  14. #154
    Boolit Bub Surfdog's Avatar
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    Great thread. Now I understand how the tinsel fairy came to visit me...hopefully for the first and last time!

    Surfdog

  15. #155
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    This really has nothing to do with the intent of the thread...but it IS interesting.

    Wet finger in molten lead.

  16. #156
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoot-n-lead View Post
    This really has nothing to do with the intent of the thread...but it IS interesting.

    Wet finger in molten lead.
    That's just about the craziest thing I've ever seen them do.

  17. #157
    Boolit Mold
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    I was melting down some stink pipe and one of them had some water in it.. and well.. always wear protective equipment. For my initial melting built a ledge by my pot ( old line man pots for splicing) and let the lead preheat. I do the same with ingots to before they hit that shimmering pool of gold

  18. #158
    Boolit Buddy David todd's Avatar
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    I have always been super careful while casting, my father taught me to always preheat my lead to get any moisture off it.
    I cast out in my driveway these days, and often have a bit of rain or snow coming down , which doesn't seem to be an issue wit the pots, but I put the ingots on a hotplate before putting them into the pots, never had an issue.
    I did see on facebook the other day where a fella escaped serious injury but had a very big visit from the "tinsel fairy"!
    it was not good, but he was wearing glasses so escaped being blinded. he figured it was because he didn't preheat his ingot, likely had some ice or water on it for sure!
    David
    Last edited by David todd; 11-11-2021 at 10:25 PM.
    scopes and bags are cool, but palm rests 'n' irons RULE!

  19. #159
    Boolit Buddy
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    Casting outside with my son one year under a shade tree when a large green grass hopper fell in and emptied the pot it was a good thing we cast standing and had room to move back .

  20. #160
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    Winger Ed.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoot-n-lead View Post
    This really has nothing to do with the intent of the thread...but it IS interesting.

    Wet finger in molten lead.

    I've heard about that, but never got drunk enough to try it.
    In school: We learn lessons, and are given tests.
    In life: We are given tests, and learn lessons.


    OK People. Enough of this idle chit-chat.
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    EVERYONE!
    Back to your oars. The Captain wants to waterski.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check