Citric acid brass cleaner

[mold maker]

I found Anhydrous Citric Acid on Evil-bay at $2.80/lb in 15lb package, inc S&H.
Is this the right stuff, and how much, in how much water?
Can I do it in a steel cement mixer to get rid of the dirt in the cases at the same time?

[DLCTEX]

3 tablespoons to the gallon of water works for me. Nix on the steel cement mixer. You'll have the same reaction between the brass and the steel mentioned above. Maybe put in a plastic 5 gal. pail with a tight fitting lid and place that in the mixer?

[sagacious]

I found Anhydrous Citric Acid on Evil-bay at $2.80/lb in 15lb package, inc S&H.
Is this the right stuff, and how much, in how much water?
Can I do it in a steel cement mixer to get rid of the dirt in the cases at the same time?

I use 2 teaspoons/qt water, or 3 tablespoons citric per gallon water.

The solution has to be used in a non-metallic container (or one with an insulated/coated surface). Unfortunately, the cement mixer won't work for this. The brass only need to soak, and not tumble while in the citric solution. Better to use the tumbler to polish the brass after soaking-- if desired. Good luck.

[stephen perry]

I'm sure that most of these cleaning methods here are discussed at length in handloading books and magazines. Phil Sharpe's Complete Book of Handloading discusses many of the topics we discuss here from powder throwers to case cleaning. My Sharpe's is from the back in 1949 he wrote his original book back in the 30's.

If I want clean cases I dump then in my vibratory tumbler for 15 minutes, leave the primers in if you don't want to pick out grit. Now I'm using crushed walnut shells but I have other grit. I don't go for shiney I go for clean. My Midway tumbler works fine had it for years.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

[geargnasher]

My wife asked about how citric acid solution would work to clean tarnished silver/silver plated eating tools and if it would be "safe", but General Inorganic was 15 years ago and I made a C in both classes anyway, can anyone give me a better than 75% correct answer to her question?

Gear

[sagacious]

I'm sure that most of these cleaning methods here are discussed at length in handloading books and magazines. Phil Sharpe's Complete Book of Handloading discusses many of the topics we discuss here from powder throwers to case cleaning. My Sharpe's is from the back in 1949 he wrote his original book back in the 30's.

If I want clean cases I dump then in my vibratory tumbler for 15 minutes, leave the primers in if you don't want to pick out grit. Now I'm using crushed walnut shells but I have other grit. I don't go for shiney I go for clean. My Midway tumbler works fine had it for years.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

Are you sure that PH discussed citric acid? Citric acid will clean cases inside and out, passivates brass to prevent tarnish, and helps prevent buildup of primer residue, and will clean brass thoroughly all in less than 1 minute flat. I use a tumbler too, but there's simply no substitute for what citric acid does. You may wish to try it. Good luck.

[sagacious]

My wife asked about how citric acid solution would work to clean tarnished silver/silver plated eating tools and if it would be "safe", but General Inorganic was 15 years ago and I made a C in both classes anyway, can anyone give me a better than 75% correct answer to her question?

Gear

I tested citric acid on silverplate and a bunch of other metals, and posted the results a few months back. A room-temp citric solution showed no effect on tarnished silverplate after 10 minutes. However, if you add some salt to a warm/hot citric solution, it will remove silver tarnish.

Both citric and citric+salt are safe to use on eating utensils. Just rinse with fresh water, as normal. Good luck.

[Baryngyl]

For those of you thinking about going the ultrasonic cleaner route, Harbor Freight has the 2.5L model on sale, $20 off. http://www.harborfreight.com/catalog...asonic+cleaner

If you go to http://www.harborfreight.com/flying you can get a coupon good for 20% off, this coupon is good until 9/16/2010. Get a new link in a lot of magazines (flying, outdoor life, field and stream and others).

On the coupon it says it can not be used with any other discount or coupon, but sometimes the do let it get used with another coupon, I just never know when they won't let me, it seems like it is the younger newer salesperson/clerk that will not let me use it.

Get you a coupon for a free LED flash light there also.


Michael Grace

[Wayne Smith]

I've read this whole thread and have one additional question that I haven't seen addressed. What will Citric acid do to nickled brass? Can the nickled ones and brass be cleaned together or must it be separately if it's safe to do at all?

[mold maker]

I got 10 lbs of powdered (food grade) citric acid from DODADESEL.com, for $32.10 inc shipping. Very interesting supplier.

[sagacious]

I've read this whole thread and have one additional question that I haven't seen addressed. What will Citric acid do to nickled brass? Can the nickled ones and brass be cleaned together or must it be separately if it's safe to do at all?

Wayne,
This thread has become so long that it's sometimes tough to find answers! Way back on post #159, nickeled brass is mentioned briefly. The citric solution prepared and used as recommended here for normal brass is safe to use on nickel. Use 2 teaspoons citric acid per quart of hot water (or 1/2oz per gallon), and soak for several minutes. The cleaning action happens quickly if the solution is hot.

I usually separate my brass and nickel for cleaning as a matter of course, but as long as one is generally following the standard guidelines and soak times suggested in this thread, then soaking mixed brass in the citric solution seems to present no problems.

For those using extended soak times, the best practice probably is to separate nickel from brass, as over longer timeframes, the potential for galvanic reaction exists. Also, to be extra safe, I would not recommend soaking mixed brass in a very old and dirty/discolored citric solution-- once the solution has been used a lot, and turned greenish/bluish, it's best to dispose of it.

Hope this helps, good luck!

[Wayne Smith]

Thanks, Sagacious. I'm reloading for a friend and most of his brass is nickle - even after I warned him. It is a .223WSSM, so maybe it's all he can find. 'l turn him on to Grafs.

[Adam10mm]

I used citric acid to clean some 7.62 NATO brass that were aged well. Came out nice but had a bit of visible marks yet, but 80%+ restored.

I decided to test the concept with copper plated bullets. I had a box of Berry's plated (9mm 124gr) bullets that got wet on the bottom and were corroded.

I used a tablespoon and a small bowl with hot as it gets tap water. Progression was 15 minutes.

Before:



About 7 minutes in solution


After 15 minutes and dried (quick rub with my T-shirt). The portion that was corroded is the darker part front and center.

[sagacious]

FS10mm,
Thanks for the feedback, glad that worked out well for you. Did you try using the solution hot? That works 100% for me on old brass, and shines tarnished copper so it's like a new penny. Good luck.

[Adam10mm]

Yes. I don't boil it but use it as hot as the kitchen faucet will allow.

[pls1911]

If you own a swimming pool, use a few onces Muriatic in a gallon of water in a plastic bucket to cover brass.

Add brass, stir or agitate for a minute, then pour off into another plastic container holding more
dirty brass.

Rinse twice dry, then load into your polisher.
Cheers.

[Wayne Smith]

-- once the solution has been used a lot, and turned greenish/bluish, it's best to dispose of it.

HA! That could be the rub. LOML (my wife) works for the Department of Environmental Quality as a geologist. Are there any protocols for disposing of the greenish/bluish fluid?

[sagacious]

HA! That could be the rub. LOML (my wife) works for the Department of Environmental Quality as a geologist. Are there any protocols for disposing of the greenish/bluish fluid?

The bluish color comes from a tiny amount of copper dissolved in the solution. When that dissolved copper contacts iron or another piece of copper, it will precipitate as pure metallic copper. Since much plumbing is copper itself, it doesn't appear that the copper in solution presents any material hazard if poured down the drain.

Also, acid neutralization of the solution is simple. This is done by adding twice the quantity of baking soda as the solution contains citric acid. This step is not strictly necessary if the solution is mixed as recommended, since many drain cleaners (even septic-safe ones) are a lower pH than this citric solution. The nice thing about citric acid is that it works well at low concentrations, and is an organic acid readily degraded by microbes. Good luck.

[Unclenick]

I've read this lengthy post with some interest and am in mid-experimentation mode myself. I'll toss a couple of things into the mix:

First, I'll second Mold Maker's suggested source of citric acid, except to mention the URL was off by one letter. The source is an alternative biofuel supply seller called DudaDiesel. I've linked that name to the citric acid page, directly. I ordered some from him last week and it showed up in three days. Good price and service. No nonsense.

Another comment I thought I'd toss out is that many of the water based degreasing cleaners, like Formula 409 and Greased Lightning and Fantastik, and so on (they all have a similar smell, the Slip2000 gun cleaner, included), are strongly alkaline. They also wet and penetrate well, and I've used them for years as an acid neutralizing step to prevent after rust after applying cold blues. Since they are around the house anyway, it saves mixing up baking soda solution. I spray them over the cold blued surface, then rinse, then hose down with a water displacing oil. These cleaning agents will etch aluminum, which can't stand much alkalinity. My point in describing that is just that if you are worried about citric or any other acid on anything except aluminum, they will work fine to neutralize it. Often the processes for passivating stainless steel call for heated lye solutions soaks before (to degrease) and after (to acid neutralize). I'm not convinced that last stage is necessary with citric acid, but that's what they do. My point is just that you can substitute the cleaners I mentioned. Just use a rinse between the first degreasing dip and the acid solution or it will weaken the citric acid solution.

I noticed a long time ago that powder residue cake could be softened to a sort of highly viscous tar or sludge by soaking for a time in mineral spirits. I am going to try a pre-soak of brass in that or in Ed's Red or maybe just in Naphtha to see if it accelerates removal of the carbon in the ultrasonic or not. The degreasing stage could then remove it. Anyone else's experiments along these lines would be interesting to hear about.

[cosmoline one]

I just got citric acid powder.I'd previously used lime juice( 4 teaspoons per 28-30 ozs) in my ultrasonic cleaner.How much do you guys use(who use the powder)?