Leading in .44 Specials

[Bat Guano]

I feel a bit silly throwing this out as I've been casting for 40+ years; but here goes.

Guns in question are a M24-3 S&W and a Ruger FT .44 Spl, both used very little and in excellent shape. Bullet metal, wheelweights; powder, Unique, 7.0-8.5 grains. Bullet design, H&G #503 Keith SWC casting .431, sized to .430; Alox 50/50 lubed. Throats pass a jacketed .430 bullet with just a bit of clearance in both guns.

I get severe leading with all loads in that range with 6-15 rds. I have to admit that I am a one-powder man since I backed off .44 Magnum level rounds with #2400; and that I don't mix up alloys but just cast away and have no idea what the hardness of my bullets comes out to.

Had similar problems years ago when I acquired a Ruger .45 Convertible and tried .452 bullets in it. I cranked up an old Lyman .454424 mold and sized to .454, (8.5 gr. Unique) and behold the gun quit leading right now.

These are nice guns that I finagled a lot to get, but to date the .45 Colt shoots just fine with minimal cleanup. I would hate to think that the fabled .44 Specials wouldn't do as well or better, but so far they function better as safe queens than they do in the field.

I am going to load up some jacketed 250 grain XTPs on principle, but they are expensive (!) and not what a bullet caster should be shooting.

Possibilities I am wondering about are a different powder (say 13.0 gr. #2400?) or larger bullet diameter (.431-.432?). I am not anxious to experiment extensively as I am more interested in shooting than loading up mystery batches which may or may not work out.

Ideas solicited; thanks.

[462]

Bat Guano,
First thing you need to do is slug the cylinder throats...you might be surprised how fat they are. By virtue of your .430" jacketed bullet test, you already know that, though.

I have a 624 and a 24-3 and both have .432" throats. After lapping a 429421 and a sizer die I now load a .433" boolit. Leading problem solved.

[UnderDawgAl]

Hi there. My brand new Ruger FT 44 Special has throats that all measure .432. If I were you, I'd follow the same procedure as you did with your 45LC convertible--load some bullets that are sized about .432 and shoot those.

My gun is so new that I just shot it this Friday for the first time--the day after I picked it up. I had already cast some Lee 214-grain SWCs, which came out of the mould at .432. I loaded those up unsized, using a thirty-something-year-old old Lee Loader, along with 7.3 grains of AA#5 and 6.3 grains of HP-38. Oh, and forty-year-old brass that was given to me.

The first six shots through the gun, at 15 yards, left me two holes--three bullets formed one hole and three bullets formed the other three. The two holes were about 1/2" apart. Granted, it was only 15 yards, but that's pretty good for me.

I shot about 60 rounds and had no leading. The bullets were cast of wheelweights and were tumble lubed with LLA/JPW, even though they had conventional lube grooves.
.
Try some larger bullets, and tell us how it goes.

Regards,
UnderDawgAl

[9.3X62AL]

Check also the size of your die set's expander spud, to see if the cases are down-sizing your boolits. I would also get those boolits a little bigger, and find an expander .002" under the dimensions of your boolit's diameter.

[Edubya]

Bat, welcome to the forum.

First off; after so many years of casting/reloading, you should realize that boolit alloy is the foundation of all results.

Secondly; size matters to guns and women.

If your not willing to consider these things, who are you gonna please?

If you don't want to increase the motion of the ocean, then make the size fit!

EW

[txbirdman]

In order to stop leading in handguns I've found that usually a fatter bullet works better. If that doesn't work then I tumble the bullets in liquid alox in addition to the conventional lube. If that fails then I'd back off on the powder charge or change to a slower burning powder.

[Bat Guano]

Bestirred myself and measured the chamber mouths of the guns in question with an inside mike this morning.

The Ruger .44 Spl. miked out very consistently at .433;
The S&W M24-3 miked out at .4330 to .4335 as closely as I could measure it.

Naturally I have two H&G 4 cavity molds that throw bullets around .430-.431, and have over the years been sizing them to .429 as Elmer told me to. But I had parked the .44 Magnum Blackhawks for quite some time so my memory is foggy on how that worked out that far back. Maybe the increased pressure bumped them up to where I didn't feel I had much of a leading problem? What I do know is that here and now the .44 specials at .429 don't work well.

Is there a source for .433 or .434 bullets comparable to the 429421 or H&G #503 that I could try--and a mold source for them?

Again, comments and observations welcome. Thanks.

[45 2.1]

Is there a source for .433 or .434 bullets comparable to the 429421 or H&G #503 that I could try--and a mold source for them?

Look here:

http://www.brp.castpics.net/P2.html

BRP has the size you need and a diverse selection as well. All the mold numbers do not reflect their as cast size. The 429421 Mod actually casts 0.434" in my molds and shoot quite well in the Ruger FTs. Ask him what they do cast.

[376Steyr]

Before buying another mould, check out "beagling" on the forum. This is basically putting some tape between the mould halves to get a slightly larger bullet. I have an RCBS 44-250-K that casts beautiful .430" boolits. By beagling the mould I got them up to .431-.432, which my Ruger .44 Special really likes with 7.5 of Unique.
You might also try mixing your alloy 50% WW/50% "pure" lead. I use this for my .38 and .44 Special loads, reserving the straight WW for Magnum pressures and velocities.

[462]

Bat,
Go the beagling route, rather than buying a custom mould, as it is reversible by simply removing the tape. I did that with the 49421, originally, then lapped it to the desired size. I have two other moulds that are beagled.

[Bat Guano]

Checked with Ballisticast who took over the H&G line; they can supply a 2 or 4 cavity mold in their #1103 design which is the old #503 Keith 240 gr SWC, and can produce them to drop
a given diameter of .433 or whatever. What I do not find at the moment is a .433-.434 Lyman GHI sizing die set--the biggest they list is a .431. But at least I have something to think about.

Would also like to find a source of this or a very similar bullet to load some up and try them. I will do some googling around but if someone knows right where some are it would expedite matters. If they improve matters I wouldn't don't mind investing in a new mold.

Thanks.

[9.3X62AL]

BG--

That's a great nick, BTW. Check with Buckshot, concerning a Lyman sizing die of the proper size. I have several of his Lyman-style H&I dies, and they are first-rate tools.

[Bat Guano]

Update: Ordered a 4 cavity mold for the same bullet (#503 aka @ 1103) from Ballisti-Cast to drop .433 dia. bullets; will also be getting a set of GHI dies from Buckshot to size to .433. I suspect that will put things right.

Just goes to show that there is always something else to learn. I wish the internet and forums like this had been around when I was a young kid loading black powder .45 Colts and lubing the bullets with vaseline. The nearest library with any gun books was 70 miles away...

[358wcf]

Gents- If beagling your molds with metal tapes gets you the diameter you need, then you should definitely consider contacting Erik Ohlen at Hollowpoint Mold Service. He doesn't publicize it much, but he does an expert job of opening up the driving bands to your desired diameter to MAKE YOUR BOOLITS FIT YOUR BORE- The work he had done for me is masterful, and very, very affordable, since you get to keep using the mold you already own.
Erik is a contributor on this forum, EKO if I remember-- very nice guy!

Chuck
358wcf

[MtGun44]

I always recommend .001 to .002 LARGER than throat size for your boolits.
You might get away with the same diameter, might not, too. Undersized is
very likely to lead. Roughness has a lot to do with it, as does the possibility
(very significant likelihood, actually) of a tight spot in the barrel thread area.

If you have a tight spot and know a good gunsmith, have him unscrew the bbl, take
a very small cut off the back face of the barrel shoulder that contacts the frame and
screw the bbl back in WITHOUT TENSION, and with a dab of red loctite. This is almost
guaranteed to get rid of the 'crush fit tight spot' so common in revolvers.