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Thread: Lead Alloy-Hard but not brittle

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
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    Talking Lead Alloy-Hard but not brittle

    At the request of some folks on another thread and Buckshot's suggestion I am posting a brew I use here.

    The alloy I use is a concoction myself and two other guys at the Bureau of Standards came up with for a project and thought it would also be good for bullets. It has a Brinnell of 25 but is not brittle like linotype. Slabs 1/8" in thickness can be bent in a complete "U" shape without breaking. It has a very fine grain structure unlike linotype's course grain structure. Using Lyman MolyLube, I have never had any leading with this alloy. I have shot this stuff up to 2500fps (chronographed and gas checked) and no lead. If anyone wants the brew I am posting it here. It is really easy to do at home. It doesn't have anything exotic in it.

    The "brew" is easy to make in 5# increments. You will need a semi-accurate scale. Perfection is not needed as you keep each batch separated and then homogenize it all by taking one ingot from each pile to make a 10# pot for casting. I have even gone as far as casting the pots into ingots 5 times for great consistency. See what happens when there is 20 ft. of snow up here in the winter, way too much time on my hands.

    The ingredients are:
    1. 3# of wheel weights that have been made into ingots- no clips or dirt
    2. 2# of linotype- cleaned and melted into ingots- no ink, etc.
    3. 1/8# (2 oz.) of 50/50 lead solder
    4. 1/4# of copper containing pewter-it has a yellowish tint not silvery

    The secret is the copper. I could go into a long spiel about what it does for the alloy in terms of structure, but who cares. As you can see a few pounds of this pewter will cast one big batch of bullets. The pewter you need contains:
    Tin = 88-89%
    Copper = 4.03 (4 to 5 is good-no more)
    Antimony = 7.19 (7 to 7 1/2- no more)
    Arsenic = 0.026 (don't worry, its there)

    You can make this brew too using pewter with no copper in it, which is more common. Melt some copper wire or clean pipe and add the pewter to it. Copper takes oxy-acetylene to melt it. Propane torches don't quite have enough ooomph. 1/4# of copper for each 5# of 92% tin and 8% antimony pewter gets you there. This is the pewter used in plates and such that you see at garage sales and the flee market. 6 or so large dinner plates and you are set for life. The arsenic is incidental. It will be there so don't even sweat how much. 5# of this pewter will be enough for 200# of bullet brew. I don't know about you, but at 105 to 160 grains per bullet that I shoot, that is a lot of bullets.

    It works in everthing I, my sons and daughter and 3 friends have shot it through, handguns and rifles. We have used it for plain base as well as gas checked bullets with the same great accuracy. For plain base bullets we all have found 1500-1600 is about the upper limit. Depending on your gun, that may or may not hold true.

    We even tried adding silver at one time, but found it didn't really do anything we hadn't already figured out. Silver is present in all lead alloys to some degree and really doesn't do anything that adding any more of this expensive stuff warrants. This is the stuff and the percentage that most "pure" lead has in it because that is the way it is found in the ground. These guys all stick together is mother nature's kitchen. Unless you have the super expensive reagent grade lead, 99.9999% pure, these guys are in it.

    Bismuth = 0.009
    Zinc = 0.001
    Silver = 0.002
    Nickel = <0.001
    Aluminum = <0.001
    Gold = <0.001
    Phosphorous = <0.001
    Indium = 0.009

    Not one of the above really adds or detracts from good bullets in these percentages. We tried up to 5% silver and it just made the brew expensive, no better or worse. Now 5% gold on the other hand did make the alloy more malleable, but very expensive. We could actually bend 1/8" slabs back and forth several times before they work hardened and broke. So, if you have any extra gold laying around that your wife or whoever hasn't claimed........

    Anyway enjoy and great shooting.
    Last edited by fish_bait; 05-05-2005 at 06:17 PM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master Cayoot's Avatar
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    Talking

    Wow Fish-bait, thanks! This sounds really interesting. I'm gonna have to give this a try.
    “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life” – John 3:16

    That still amazes me…I don’t care who you are or how much I care about you, I would never let you kill my son. I can’t even begin to understand how much He loves us.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

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    I think I have this alloy hacked into a spreadsheet.

    for some reason I cannot post it here, the webpage hates me I guess


    PM me and I will send it to you (excel spreadsheet)

    Bill
    Both ends WHAT a player

  4. #4
    Boolit Master Cayoot's Avatar
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    PM sent, thank you
    “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life” – John 3:16

    That still amazes me…I don’t care who you are or how much I care about you, I would never let you kill my son. I can’t even begin to understand how much He loves us.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master and Generous Donator
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    Fish-Bait:

    Could you translate this mix into its constituent elemental percentages, or into something I could mix up from metals / alloys from Bill Ferguson? (He sells a couple of varieties of pewter alloy, one of them lead-free.)

    floodgate

  6. #6
    Boolit Master Cayoot's Avatar
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by floodgate
    Fish-Bait:

    Could you translate this mix into its constituent elemental percentages, or into something I could mix up from metals / alloys from Bill Ferguson? (He sells a couple of varieties of pewter alloy, one of them lead-free.)

    floodgate
    Could you please give the contact information for Bill Ferguson?

    Thanks
    “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life” – John 3:16

    That still amazes me…I don’t care who you are or how much I care about you, I would never let you kill my son. I can’t even begin to understand how much He loves us.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    fish bait,
    That sounds simple enough that even I could make it! Have you had an opportunity to check expansion properities? -JDL

  8. #8
    Boolit Master wills's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cayoot
    Could you please give the contact information for Bill Ferguson?

    Thanks
    http://www.theantimonyman.com/

  9. #9
    Boolit Mold
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    Expansion properties

    JDL

    This stuff is hard enough, Brinell of 25, I kind of doubt it will expand much unless it hits something real hard, like steel or rock. The bullets I have dug out of the hill behind the barn are a little scuffed up and maybe a rock has taken a chunk out of the nose, but that is it. I don't hunt anymore, so I have no clue what they might do on a critter, but I doubt it will be much in the way of mushrooming, if any.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master


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    Good post. Guess I need to watch for some of that pewter.

    Sounds like Felix's babbit mix. The copper adds strength to the alloy that is not obtainable through the commponents of lino.

    With his mix, I've shot .223s at 2600 FPS with 1 1/2 accuracy at 100 yards.

    Been planning to get back to that project but I've put it off./beagle

  11. #11
    Boolit Mold
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    Talking Percentages

    Floodgate

    Somewhere in the few notes I brought home after I retired, I have the percentage of each. I just make mine from the recipe I posted. I have found it doesn't have to be a smelted alloy to work. At work we didn't even get that critical for the project we had to do. If you are in a hurry have the Antimony Man figure it out for you, 'cause I have no idea which of the boxes my notes on this are. Maybe this summer when it gets too hot to fish I will dig around for the info.

    Here are the figures for each material we used and the amount. The numbers are in the order of lead, tin and antimony. Each is from an analysis of the components of the original batch we made.

    Wheel Weights---95.25-.5-4 and .25 arsenic---3#
    Linotype---84-4-12---2#
    Copper containing pewter---Tin = 88.754-Copper = 4.03-Antimony = 7.19
    Arsenic = 0.026---!/4# or 4 oz.
    50/50 lead solder---1/8# or 2 oz.

    Have fun with a calculator. I am off to chase fish.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master on Heavens Range
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    No need to search explicitly for the pewter, Beagle! Need more Babbit? A phone call will get you another brick of the very same stuff. I probably have 5 bricks left, and maybe go through a brick every 10 years. Use it only for small diameter boolits, and/or a gun having a too fast of a twist for another 200 fps or so. A waste otherwise. ... felix
    felix

  13. #13
    Boolit Master

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    What I came up with a spreadsheet is

    7.1 tin
    7.9 ant.
    84.9 lead
    .8 copper

    anybody that would like this may email me and I will send it to you, it has entries for WW, Lino, Lead, and now Pewter, it then gives you the final alloy constitution.

    Bill
    Both ends WHAT a player

  14. #14
    Boolit Master

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    I dunno if this is going to work or not, but I broke the data down and placed into a table of sorts and attatched it to this message:

    Tom Myers
    Last edited by Tom Myers; 04-23-2007 at 02:15 PM.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master on Heavens Range
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    Very informative, Tom and Bill, and thanks! ... felix
    felix

  16. #16
    Boolit Mold
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    Talking

    I found my notes from work in the first box I looked in this morning, pure luck. Tom Myers hit the numbers so close as to be irrelavent. We assayed the original batch.

    I also found notes on a batch we made that had a full 1% of copper and it was the toughest of the bunch. I took a small amount home and cast some bullets, 10, from it and found they shot great but were a bear to size. I put a "slug" we cast at work in the vise and literally beat the thing to death before it broke from work hardening. I didn't keep any notes on the formula because, as I remember, it did not work well for our project at the time.

    My congrats to Tom for his work.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    has anyone asked antimony man if he can provide the copper/pewter ??
    it looks like all else is common.
    sounds like real potental if the cost is still low....the prime goal of most casters...
    only accurate rifles are interesting

  18. #18
    Banned 45 2.1's Avatar
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    Looks like a good alloy for the 6.5mm bullets.

  19. #19
    Boolit Mold
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    As good as my little "brew" shoots in my 7mm's, it should shoot real well in a 6.5mm. Two of my friends shoot my brew in their 6mm's and 25's and I have heard nothing but good. Antimony Man probably has the pewter with copper, I'm just to cheap to pay shipping on heavy stuff like lead and such. Cooper containing pewter is also sometimes used as babbit for bearings in old(1950's and back engines) and sometimes is laying around car and truck repair places that have been there forever. A buddy found some at the local engine machine shop in Delta or Paonia, CO. It is not hard to find.

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy HTRN's Avatar
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    Ahem, McMaster Carr sells a Tin based babbit with 3.5% copper in it... Not cheap though, my 2002 catalog lists 4.5lbs at $48....



    HTRN
    There's nothing scarier than a Machinist with a warped imagination!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check