30-30 PB and COW

[dualsport]

I'm looking for a way to get more speed from a pb 165gr. boolit in my Winchester 94. It is amazing at lower velocities, accuracy wise, but I'd like to push around 1600 fps or better for 200 yd. rams without a rainbow trajectory. I'll be shooting it at 50 and 100 also. Anyone tried filler and plain base in the 30-30 levergun?

[missionary5155]

Good morning
I am not a big fan of COW in shoulder type cases where upper level case pressure is desiered. That material has to compress to get out out through that narrow space.
Me I would consider a slower powder with a longer progressive burn to push that boolit to 1500+.. should not be a real hard task. A 50-50 blend PB boolit is rather easy to do.
You did not give the boolit weight but 2400 or 3031 and other powders in those burn rates should take care of that task.

[Nobade]

My regular cowboy silhouette 30-30 load is 15gr. TU-2000 (similar to IMR4198) and 1.6cc cream 'o' wheat with a #311041 bullet. I have fired many thousands of these loads with no problem. Palm sized groups at 200M with iron sights, flat enough trajectory to not need any sight changes from 50M to 200M, and no leading. Bullets are water dropped wheelweights, sized to .309, tumble lubed, no gas check. This also works if you have slower powder, just increase the powder and drop the filler so you have the same "stack height" about halfway up the neck for compression. I will probably be going to slower powder like 3031 once this powder is used up, but it was really cheap and works well so I'll use it until it's gone.

[dualsport]

Bingo! Thanks guys. I do have a lot of DP68 (AA2015) which is as close to the 4198s as you can get in burn rate. I'll see what I can work up. The reason for the filler is just to protect the pb. I have great accuracy under 1100 fps with fast powders, no filler. Any estimates on the velocity on those loads, Nobade?

[Nobade]

Never chrono'd them, I'd guess 1600-1700 fps.

[dualsport]

Well I went for it. Loaded up a few boxes of 30-30s for a cb sil. match. It's cast bullets only , not cowboy. Lots of different guns, more of a fun match, at Lincoln Rifle Club in Lincoln, Ca. I used store bought 165 gr. pb, 20 grs. of DP68(AA2015), 1.3 cc COW, and a Winchester small pistol primer. They shot well enough, no real serious bench testing done. Got most of the pigs, four turkeys, and 1 ram. It's leading my 94 a little, next time I'll use my own boolits, maybe a Saeco 315 with LLA. The biggest thing about it was using the COW with no problems. No signs of high pressure at all.

[Nobade]

If it's leading at all you might want to back off the powder and up the COW.

[runfiverun]

or learn to paper patch.
try your regular bullets first, and make sure you are putting a slight compression on the filler.

[dualsport]

It does make me a tad nervous messing with COW. But I've read so much by guys who I trust I believe it's safe when done right. I have boxes of old "The Fouling Shot" CBA magazine back to #1. Read everything there is by 'Molly', Ken Mollahan. He's done a lot of work with COW filler. My motivation is laziness and time constraints. The idea of shooting a tumble lubed plain base at near factory velocity from an unsized case and getting good expansion and accuracy appeals to me, although it may not be realistic. It all started with a search for a cast ground squirrel load for a .223. Then I wanted to eliminate some of the 'work'. I don't doubt paper patching will work, I just haven't gotten the hang of it somehow. I'll get back to that again for another go. I have used COW and dacron with 4831 in the 30-06 but can't say it was any better than a good gas checked load, sure leaves a clean bore though. I think the leading may be due to the store bought boolits, next up is old reliable Saeco 315. Hard to make it shoot bad. I'd like to see a RD bevel base version of the 315. I think the straight taper is what makes it magic. By the way, thanks for the help guys, I appreciate it.