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Thread: 30-30 Parent Case

  1. #1
    Boolit Master at Heaven's Range.
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    30-30 Parent Case

    Guys I am looking to put together a deer hunting single shot(Encore) barrel for cast bullets. I like the rimmed cartridge idea for the Encore. I already have a 45-70 barrel. I am interested in what you guys think is the best cartridge where I can use cast bullets at their nominal velocities that would be most effective as a short range(out to 200 yards max.) deer rifle?? Any other good rimmed cartridges to work from??

    Isn't the 38-55 based off the 30-30 case?? Thanks, Tom.
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    30/30,32spcl,375win, 38-55 are all the same basic case.

    30/40 Krag,348win,303 Brit, 307 win,7.62X54 russian, 444marlin..etc... all could be bumped up or down to make what you seek or used as is in the Encore.

    Then there is the glaringly obvious easy as pie choice......a 20-22 inch encore barrel in 357 max ...it will kill any whitetail out to 200 yards in the right hands. I know a guy that has killed a few at that distance and a couple a bit beyond that mark with a custom barrelled 15inch encore pistol with 180-220 grain castings and a fullhouse dose of Vhit N-120.

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    Boolit Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    For some reason that defies logic, I like a rimmed case. The 30-30 basic case looks so versatile .....

    A 357/30-30 perhaps? (357 maximum performance and then still some).

    Or a 357/303 (I would have said 357/30-40 for the longer neck but I have the impression that cases are hard to come by).
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    I would not over look the 405 Winchester..
    Another one that would fall in there is the 414 Supermag. And while here the 375 Supermag will easily put down whitetails out of a revolver. Last deer I popped with a firearm was with my Dan Wesson 375SM.. Balistics are around the 38-55 with medium powered loads.
    All those Supermags mentioned are right off the 30-30 head size case.
    But just for pure and simple the 375 Wincheester ! There is no problem moving a 255 grain boolit at 1500- 1700 FPS. That is 400 fps over the old 38-55 load that probably harvested mor deer than all of will ever see. And a modern 38-55 rifle will do the same.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
    A 357/30-30 perhaps? (357 maximum performance and then still some).
    I think this is called the .357 Herrett (sp?).
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    Quote Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
    For some reason that defies logic, I like a rimmed case. The 30-30 basic case looks so versatile .....

    A 357/30-30 perhaps? (357 maximum performance and then still some).

    Or a 357/303 (I would have said 357/30-40 for the longer neck but I have the impression that cases are hard to come by).
    Rimmed cases are superb for the contender or encore series of firearms.
    What about a 7mm Waters?? what about necked down to 6.5??

    A .357 Max necked down to to .30 cal or less could be an interesting project.

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    What Shiloh said, 7-30 Waters, makes a 7mm boolit do what should. Like the 30 Herrett the 357 Herrett is a shortened 30-30 case. Most other calibers on a 30-30 case are simple neck up or down procedure, no altering the length of the case.
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    I wonder what a 45/70 case necked to 357 or even 308 would do.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
    For some reason that defies logic, I like a rimmed case. The 30-30 basic case looks so versatile .....
    Legendary gunsmith Roy Dunlap also preferred rimmed cases, and felt that rimless cases were a necessity forced on us by self-loading rifles and no great virtue in themselves.

    -HF

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    30 40 Krag. Nice long neck good power factory brass avail.
    Also the 375 JDJ, or the 338JDJ #2 From SSK.
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    Boolit Master Canuck Bob's Avatar
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    30/30 or the improved versions would be my choice. Nice long neck and it has piled up more deer and moose than just about any other cartridge in short barrelled weapons. This would give you a big bore thumper and a deer cartridge from the same historical era which appeals to me a lot. Also the choices in components is spectacular with 308.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master at Heaven's Range.
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    I have thought about the 7-30 Waters. I know it is a dandy cartridge. What kind of performance can I expect out of the cartridge with a cast bullet?? What bullet??Thanks, Tom.
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  13. #13
    Boolit Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    JDJ - 444 Marlin case. If one can live with plenty muzzle boom, then a large capacity cased cartridge off the shelf could be considered, like the 303 Brit or the longer necked 30-40 Krag. I a 'wildcat' is to considered and 30-40 cases are available then a cartridge made by trimming off the case at the shoulder/body junction would make any number of possible choices in a fatter and shorter case, more suited to shorter barrel. Such a case would give a healthy neck thickness. One could even design a cartridge that headspaces on the case mouth. That way, the cases never 'grow' and very shallow tapered shoulder designs can be used. That's assuming the shallow shoulder angle has advantages to hand loaders and I think it does. Wads and fillers can be used (including waxy wads) and so on. The 30-40 Krag, 303 Brit, 30-30 and 45/70 cases have healthy rim dimensions.

    A neat 'woldcat', easy to make is a 375/30-40. The necj and shoulder af simply opened up to 375, effectivly making case, which like the 375 Win, has a body taper that blends into the neck. That one should suit a short barrel as good as a 30-30.
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  14. #14
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    Talking

    A 375 Winchester with a Lyman 375449 GC at 1800 fps I think would fit the bill with 30:1 or ACWW for expansion and energy at 200 yards.

  15. #15
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    How about the 307 Winchester or a really good cartridge, the 35 Winchester or even the 356 Winchester.. 38-72 comes to mind too and the already mentioned 405 Win.



    Shiloh---Used to shoot a 30 maximum in IHMSA, about 20 yrs ago. works well

  16. #16
    Boolit Master paul edward's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HEAD0001 View Post
    Guys I am looking to put together a deer hunting single shot(Encore) barrel for cast bullets. I like the rimmed cartridge idea for the Encore. I already have a 45-70 barrel. I am interested in what you guys think is the best cartridge where I can use cast bullets at their nominal velocities that would be most effective as a short range(out to 200 yards max.) deer rifle?? Any other good rimmed cartridges to work from??
    .30/30 for lots of reasons. Barrels, brass, bullets, molds and reloading data are readily available. The .30/30 has a proven record as an effective deer cartridge. Recoil will be mild.

    If you are worried that this caliber might be a bit small for your intended quarry, then look at the .32 Special. The next size up takes you into the realm of wildcats. It is amazing that Winchester did not introduce a .35 on the .30/30 case (they went down to .25 with the 25/35). There are several versions of the .35/30 any of which would meet the requirements you described.

    For the last 20 years I have been loading .30/30 for a Model 340 Savage. My favorite cast loads include a Lee 160 Gr RN GC and a 215gr 311299 RN GC. The longer load must be fed singly as it is too long for the magazine.

    With a single shot rifle, you do not need to worry about overall loaded length of the cartridge. Or crimping, or full length sizing (once you have fire formed the cases).

    PED

  17. #17
    Boolit Master Lead Fred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HEAD0001 View Post
    I already have a 45-70 barrel.
    Tom, Id say your already there. Our 30-30s sit dormant now.
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  18. #18
    Boolit Master at Heaven's Range.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lead Fred View Post
    Tom, Id say your already there. Our 30-30s sit dormant now.

    Boy I hate it when people tell the truth. Tom.
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  19. #19
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    Back to one of the original parts of the question:

    Isn't the 38-55 based off the 30-30 case??
    If I am not mistaken, the 38-55 or 38-56 is the parent cartridge, with the 30-30 and 32 Special being made from one of those.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master TCLouis's Avatar
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    35 Remington RIMMED.

    Cases from 303 or 30-40 and it ads that ever so useful rim.

    Of course a plain ol 357 Herrett would be good or even the simple 357 Max. Max is a performer beyond what it appears to be in the longer barrel (heck in the short ones also)

    Do a Google search there are a couple of good articles about Max's performance out of a carbine length barrel.
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check