Any one patch for the Mosin?

[6.5 mike]

What I do is first make a dummy rd ( old steel cases work well if shot in the same gun) to find the max oal. Then I pp'er the boolit I'm going to use as far out toward the nose as I can, seat this in another case to oal, try to chamber it. If it wo'nt I guesstamate the amount I need to trim off the nose. Using a sharp shop knife I'll trim & try until it will chamber with a slight force to close the bolt. I usually run a cleaning rod down the bore so the boolit doesn't pull when I open the bolt & check how much the rifling shows on the patch. You can then lay your boolit next to this round to see how wide your patch needs to be, I tuck mine at the base so you might want more width if you twist your tails.
One thing to be careful of, make sure you have enough clearence at the neck to allow it to expand when fired. I measure a fired (that gun) case neck outside & a loaded neck to make sure it will work.
I've used this from 6.5 swedes to 45-70s, works for me.

[303Guy]

I did have some printer paper on hand 24# but can't work with that stuff just falls apart when wet.

Hee hee! That's why I dry wrap. Try a cigarette roller as docone31 suggests. It will work. Still not as easy a dry wrapping if you happen to have clumsy fingers like me!

This is a dry wrapped boolit with the skirt glued. Therein lies the disadvantage.



This the begining of the skirt crimp/fold.



Sizing flattens the crimped/folded tail completely.



I have a pic somewhere of a patch being applied using a cig roller but now I can't find it!

[rhbrink]

You don't use a cigarette roller to roll the patches?

Fingers, if I do much of this and I'm guessing that I will I'll be shopping for a cigrette roller.

303Guy what do you use for glue?

[docone31]

You do not use glue!!!
This is so simple.
Cut a strip, 1". Cut it at opposing 45* angles 1 3/8". Soak in water, lay on the roller apron, set the casting, roll it. It squeegees the water and the patched casting comes out of the apron damp. Set to dry. It shrinks down around the lands and dries tighter than you can imagine. The patch actually gets hard.
Why do it so hard for yourself?
I put on the History channel, or Discovery, and roll a couple of hundred. I size mine, so I let them dry, hard, dab on some Auto Wax, run them through the sizer, load and fire.
It is really relaxing.

[rhbrink]

"Why do it so hard for yourself?"

Cause I come from a long line of Dutchmen

You can tell a Dutchman but you can't tell him much!!!

OK! I'll go shopping for a roller!

MISSOURIANS for MOSINS I'm from Missouri too, does that tell you anything?

[docone31]

Ha! Got you beat! I am a Swedish Inuit!
You can tell a Swede, but you cannot tell him anything!
My family has a long history here.
A lot of it sad.
Get a roller, spend time shooting!
You should spend about 3$.

[303Guy]

One can dry wrap without glue. The trick is to twist the patch tight then wet undrt the trailing 'tail'. this will only work with some papers. For me the glue is a short cut. No glue must get onto the patch body itself, only the skirt overhang. I would not try glue for target work. I'm not recommending glue but I use school kids paper glue and only a tiny dab under the trailing corner where it overhangs the boolit. I use the glue for load testing in my 'test tube' where accuracy has no meaning. I did field test a few glue patches and was pleasantly surprized at the result.

[rhbrink]

You've convinced me I'll be on the lookout for a roller.

Don't really know but I would bet that most if not all the people and families that came over from the "OLD" countries did'nt leave under happy times.

MISSOURIANS for MOSINS

[docone31]

You are right there.
They left to better themselves, and they were not well liked when they came here.
They kept to themselves, and tried to not pass on what they hated most.
They were tough old coots.

[Ekalb2000]

Picked it up yestereday, it a 1943 91/30. Chewed him dow to forty bucks and the hard case too boot. Man there was grease in there from when it was manufactured. I have not sluged it yet. But it has very deep grooves. Not too shiny, yet. It has been counter bored. Took the stock off and gave it a good washing in the tub. Needs another bath. Then a good sanding.

I cant wait to roll up some PP for this. This thread is now in my fav list. Good info in here.

Its sad when the ammo costs more than the rifle.

Does anyone have a blueprint of the wraps?

thanks all

andy

[303Guy]

Ummmm ..... any chance of pictures?

Does anyone have a blueprint of the wraps?

I do but I cannot figure out how to pass it on in a useable format. If you had software that could read DWG files I could pass some examples to you, including my trick for designing patches for tapered or two-diameter boolits. Not absolutely necessary but it does make patch alignment easier for me.


These might not work so well with a roller.

The fact that it's been counterbored means the bore was worn toward the muzzle. I've seen a 'late' model Mosin (with folding bayonet) that had an unfired bore!

[303Guy]

I just tesed the 'shaped' patch with a roller and no, it doesn't work! Too difficult to align on the apron. It might be do-able with some trial and error and by placing a set of alignment marks on the apron, but nah - just go with straight, parallel sides.

[JSH]

I went and looked at "rollers", man they had at least a half dozen. What are the little alligator clips for that come with some of them? Maybe for twisting the tails?


LOL


I am watching with interest.
jeff

[303Guy]

Well, I haven't used my roller for a long time and so when docone31 advised to use one I went and tried it with printerpaper. Well, I can vouch for docone31. It wraps tight and dries even tighter! So much so that I would have to use a slightly narrower patch to allow for the stretch the roller gives the patch. It dries tighter than plain wet wrapping. But for me, wet patching doesn't suite my style so for now, I'll stay with dry wrapping - without glue. I changed my patch angle and the need for glue went away. I would suggest a 30° angle off the certical. Easier to wrap - for me.

[Zeek]

. . . . I'll stay with dry wrapping - without glue. I changed my patch angle and the need for glue went away. I would suggest a 30° angle off the vertical. Easier to wrap - for me.

I have used 30° angle for years now, but HAD been using a bit (perhaps 1/20 of a drop) of carpenter's glue at the final corner to prevent that tag end from getting uppity. However, now that I have switched to Rooster Jacket (smeared onto the wet patch right after wrapping), I find that it glues down that errant top rather nicely, but the PPatch flies right off at the muzzle still.
Zeek

[rhbrink]

Well a little better used notebook paper and was able to see rifling marks like post #18, I think my Lee .314 sizing die needs to be opened a little pushing a lead ball through it measures .313 but the patched boolit measured .3145 still not big enough. My first 5 shots at 50 yards were about a 4 to 5 inch group then things went haywire again boolits all over the place with gas checks and no gas checks. I don't think my patch is tight enough as I picked up a few wrinkles when seating the boolits. After seeing the loose patches I readjusted my boolit seater and may have eliminated so of the problem but don't know how many were loose before I caught the problem, lots of little things going on here that need to be addressed one at a time. So.....

Open the booilt sizer

GET A ROLLER

Any other ideas?

Richard
MISSOURIANS for MOSINS

[Beekeeper]

Docone31,
Where did you buy your cigarette wraping machine?
Was in a local shop today and asked about one and got the old *** stare from owner and customers alike.
This was the largest smoke shop within 40 miles of where I live.
Info appreciated.


Jim

[docone31]

Get em while you can.
http://www.ryotobacco.com/page/ryot/PROD/hroll/TOP70MM
Any this size works well.

[303Guy]

I got my roller from a bottle store! No-one else seemed to have one.

I do find that little dab of paper glue (carpenters glue might be better) helps with that tag end! Mine still get uppity from time to time without glue. Still, it's an extra step so if I can do without it ...

I don't think my patch is tight enough as I picked up a few wrinkles when seating the boolits.

I've had that. I can't remember what the remedy was! I'm dry wrapping smooth sided boolits and not getting any patch movement or wrinkling. I'm now even sizing them and the patch holds fast. I wonder what's different? Smooth paper maybe? I was using a notepad paper that did not bond between layers with wet wrapping. It might have been that paper that would slip and/or crinkle at times.

How hard or soft is your alloy? Meaning, can it upset in the bore on firing?

Just a thought - something I have not tried out but I am hearing reports that certain case fillers work wonders. COW and corn cob tumble media come to mind. These seem to act as a wad which protects the boolit base from deformation and flame cutting and also clean the bore. These may not be relevent to paper patching but still worth looking into.

[rhbrink]

Alloy measures about 18 BHN on my Saeco Hardness tester which to me is plenty hard as the main idea for me is to eventually use these as a hunting round mainly deer and hopefully maybe a pig or two. As for the patch wrinkles I was only getting them when seating boolits, I think that I had my boolit seater die set too deep and the patch was catching inside the die body (that was made for .308 bullets) raising the die and readjusting the seating stem seemed to eliminate that problem.

The booilt that I'm shooting weights 190 grains with 48 grains of H4350 do you think it needs to be harder, the load seems plenty fast to me its got a good thump on both ends that is when I hit something.

Looks like I'll order one of docone31's rollers, that looks too simple to work. Been getting a few of those *** stares lately myself I think that I've had a few on my own ugly mug too.

Thanks guys appreciate the help Richard

MISSOURIANS for MOSINS