Any one patch for the Mosin?

[Ekalb2000]

Guy at work is bringing in his for me to look at next week. He has no clue what he has, so I dont know if its a 91/30 or one of the short ones. I have heard that it shots real good. I offered him fifthy bucks for it and he said he would take it.
From what I have read, they have some big bores. Which is why I would like to know if you PP for the mosin. I have a Lee 200gr 309 mold.
If I use thicker paper, could I get it up to 313-314? I got tons of cash register paper.
Anyway, I guess I will know more next week after I slug the bore.

thanks

andy

[docone31]

You are probably going to be better off with the Lee 303B mold.
It is not just the size, it is how the nose rides in the paper.
Good luck.

[303Guy]

The Mosin is supposed to be 30 cal but has a larger groove diameter. Whatever. Thing is, now I'm interested in how it's going to shoot! How's the supply of cases in your parts?

I have a 303 Brit with a bore which is probably bigger than a Mosin's due to wear and so far it seems to shoot pretty good with a patched boolit.

[Ekalb2000]

Cases? I havent even thought that far ahead yet.

[nicholst55]

The inexpensive Privi brass is out of stock at Graf's; both they and Midway have Lapua, and Midway also has Norma. Spendy, but excellent brass!

[303Guy]

There you go, Ekalb2000. Problem solved! So now then, when do you take delivery of the rifle?

Do you have access to a lathe? (If you do, I just happen to have a few tricks for sizing and expanding for paper patched boolits).

Are you planning on shooting it as is (perhaps upgrading the iron sights a bit)?

If the bore needs fire-lapping, this is how I do it. This thing cleans out the bore with great efficiency with one or two shots, depending how much rust or crud is in it.



Only the second to last groove gets filled with fine grinding paste and is contained within the case neck so no grit can get between the case and chamber. The long, narrow bit holds a bore riding 'nose' to guide the bullet into the bore. it is basically a throat fitting design, tailored to fit the throat. The idea being to force the grit into the grooves to clean out the crud and rust. It works!

[rhbrink]

You are probably going to be better off with the Lee 303B mold.
It is not just the size, it is how the nose rides in the paper.
Good luck.

Recently picked up a Mosin myself and I'm thinking of paper patch myself. I don't have a suitable mold for this bore about .305 at the breech with .314 grooves. So the question is just how is the nose suppose to ride in the paper? I have been reading up on this and assume that the paper should ride up over the ogive so that no lead actually touches the bore, but haven't found anything that says exactly how tight the nose should be in the paper patch. Hope that this is clearer than mud any help appreciated.

MISSOURIANS for MOSINS

[303Guy]

I've the same question. I've found that a boolit patched to groove diameter on the bore ride is the only way to load for some of my rifles. By firing into a 'test tube' I can asses whether or not the patch is disuntegrating and have found it does when the pressure and velocity is high enough. I cannot examine the boolits themselves as they get turned inside out on impact. But the patch fragments are recoverable. .305 bore at the breach could mean having to use thicker paper.

One of my rifles takes a bore-ride patched to .315!

[Ekalb2000]

Rolled up a couple tonight. I already had some sized boolits at .309. All I did was lightly wet the paper prior to the roll. I then lightly applied some of my lube to the outside. And they came out at 314.5 to 315. I dont think I will get by with not running these through an opened up push thru sizer.
I definatly see what you mean about the paper riding over the ogive. That Lee boolit has to much af an angle me thinks.

[Ekalb2000]

303
I dont have access to a lathe. That cleaner looks wicked.
I will keep the original sights on it. I wont be doing any sniping with it.

Oh, I get the rifle next week.

[303Guy]

How does that boolit fit the throat? I have a guage rod I use to see how deep it goes in.

[rhbrink]

I did buy some Winchester brass from Buffalo Arms.com they were $49 @ 100 already primed. I thought there was a taboo on shipping primed cases but guess not. Didn't say primed and the guy that I ordered from didn't mention being primed but got them anyway.

[Nobade]

I have been playing with a 91/30 recently, it had a very pitted and rough bore so it's perfect to see if this lapping with PP boolits works. First time I shot it, I couldn't hit the berm at 100M twice in a row. I've had it out twice now, shooting PP with 240 grit lapping compound smeared on the exposed patch. It's getting shinier, but has a long way to go. I figure a couple of trips out (firing 10 rounds each time) and then I'll switch to 400 grit for a while. The bore/groove is .300/.314, and I'm shooting boolits at .315 now. Hopefully it doesn't get too big, because .317 is about as big as I can go and still chamber a round. For a barrel with such a big groove diameter, the chamber neck is pretty tight at .339. I guess these rifles are made for thin steel cased ammo? Anyhow, we shall see if it smooths out enough to shoot decently or gets destroyed trying.

[Three44s]

Primed empty brass gets a free ride as to hazmat fees.

Three 44s

[rhbrink]

Nobade mine was the same way the more I cleaned and shot and cleaned the bigger it got, ended up with a .314 groove and about .340 neck. My muzzle measures about .301 and .312 groove go figure that, doesn't appear to be too worn at the breech. Shoots jacket great just haven't come up with a suitable cast yet, gonna give this paper patch thing a try and see what happens.

MISSOURIANS for MOSINS

[rhbrink]

Well I did it. First paper patch in a Mosin somewhere down below there is a thread that says you are suppose to fail on your first attempt, I'm right on schedule. One minute of berm at 100 yards it's a big berm too. I think I need a thicker patch only thing I had available was some Mead Tracing paper barely could patch up to .313 but no lead!

[docone31]

Notebook paper. It will get you .317.
You must be close, my first ones were 20 minutes of berm at 100yds. Safest place was in direct line of the muzzle.
Another point,
At .313, try smearing some Valve Lapping Compound on the patches. It should tighten up the groups. If it does, you are close to hitting the nail. The Valve compound adds .0005 to the patch.
That is how I found the diameter for the die to final size.

[303Guy]

This is sort of what you should be aiming for.



The rifling engraving marks are clealy visible. This loading chambers with some force and as can be seen, extracts just fine. The trick is to make sure the case chambers freely prior to loading - that's to make sure the neck is not what's going in tight with the seated boolit. If that happens, the chamber pressure rises quite a bit. So, measure the free fitting case neck OD and re-measure with the boolit seated. The expansion should be tiny - hardly measurable with a micrometer. The neck tension is gained by the compression of the paper. Oh, this is using printer paper which is thicker than note-pad paper and a lot more compressable.

[rhbrink]

Thanks guys I just rolled up some with notebook paper I think they will be a little larger when dry, I did have some printer paper on hand 24# but can't work with that stuff just falls apart when wet. I shot two different bullets one is a Saeco 315 sized to .308 and the other is a Lyman 311644 sized to .308 using 48 grains of H4350 seemed like a stiff load but no lead. The first shot hit the paper target about one foot high and two right thought well this is going to work, Wrong that was the only one so I shot the rest at a clump of weeds on the berm. Shoot a couple check for lead shoot a couple more I finished up with the lyman and just maybe it was starting to group but just shooting a weeds is hard to tell for sure. I am getting a little better at rolling the patches that could be part of the problem as I wasn't real consistant at getting them to come out all the same. Some would overlap a bit and then the next might be a little short once in a while I would get it about right. Looking at 303Guy's bullet I can see that I wasn't getting rifleing marks on the nose I'll try to make sure that happens before I go back to the range. There is much to learn here for sure!

I did show them to a couple of know-it-all benchrest shooters they said they had never seen anything like that in their life. Too bad they live in such a small sheltered world.

Appreciate the help.

Richard
MISSOURIANS for MOSINS

[docone31]

You don't use a cigarette roller to roll the patches?