.735 round ball vs NEF ULTRA slug gun.

[Harmon_Greer]

OK,
I am casting with wheelweights in a Jeff Tanner Round Ball mold(as apposed to the octagonal ball or square ball...)

balls are cast and then heat treated..they are plenty hard...and then coated with Lee Alox

here is what i have so far...
Load 1

Federal cheap hull, 2 3/4 in
win 209
25.00 IMR 7625
win WT12 wad petals removed
2.2 cc baby oat meal
ROLL crimp
accuracy is about 1.75 inches for three shots at 50 yards on an extremely windy day.

Load 2
Winchester Universal hull (also very cheap)
cheddite 209
20.0 grains CLAYS
WAA12 Gray wad petals removed
NO FILLER
ROLL crimp
accuracy is totally terrible. not hitting the paper target 8.5X11" once in three shots.

wads recovered reveal the accuracy failure...wad had been extruded around the ball.

Load 3 is the same load as load 2 except the winchester hull is replaced by a Remington Gun Club hull..equally terrible accuracy.

Load 4

Federal Plastic game hull(same as load 1)
win 209 primer
44.0 grains Alliant Blue dot
Claybuster 12R wad. Petals Removed
2.2 CCs baby oatmeal
WT12 Gas seal inverted to cradle the ball
a dab of TC bore butter
UNLUBED ball..
ROLL crimp
**this thing is 1 hole accurate at 50 yds and produces terrific muzzle flash and terrifying recoil. chrono shows 1446 fps at 10 yds.**

Load 5

Federal Game Hull
fed 209a
22.5 grains WST (winchester super target)
WT12 with petals removed
gas seal from fired waa12/wt12 wads inverted to cradle ball.
a dab of T/C Bore Buttter
Unlubed ball.
Roll Crimp..

this load shoots clean, is accurate as the blue dot load without all the extra commotion. perfect load for smaller shooters or lighter guns. bore butter may be too much lube for the ball/load combo as there is lube residue at the muzzle after shooting.

__________________________________________________ _______________

all of the above loads left 0 indications of leading and the only fouling left in the bore was from the plastic wads used in the loads..Blue dot left some unburned powder but it all comes out with a single pass of the bore snake..

ive tried some with fold crimps but i find the cheaper hulls are easier to roll crimp and this is especially true since im not stacking card wads to achieve a certain load height...

i think the baby oatmeal and waa12/wt 12 combo may be the most economical practice load since you dont have to scavenge fired wads or use two new ones in the load assembly.

I want to try some card wads but my goal was to make an accurate economical slug load that produces good power with acceptable accuracy without having to keep 4-5 different thickness card wads on hand. since the demise of the real WAA12R wads and the new claybusters have tapered petals, i am also seeking a full power load to replace my favorite lyman 525 load that used the 12R wads.

For Hunting loads i am willing to sacrifice ease of loading for performance..


Nothing Further at this time.

Load Development Continues....

[Greg5278]

You can try using Cork wads, or lubed Felt wads under the ball. [I am glad you are getting some better results. Perhaps a moderate powder would help too, do you have any IMR 4756 IMR 7625, or Herco?
Greg

[missionary5155]

Good afternoon
I read the post twice and missed the firearm used and barrel type.
But once you get a RB moving near 1500 fps you will notice there is a need for some sort of recoil adjustment. I found a towel folded and placed over my bony shoulder area helped alot. Also I shoot the heavy SMASHERS off cross sticks as it gives my body the option to get pushed back rather than the temporary dislocated shoulder on a bench.
For the fun of it try 135 grains of 2F once.. it will enlighten you to what the African hunters used to tame a continent.

[Harmon_Greer]

It is a rifled 24 inch barrel. The gun is a H and R single shot that weighs ten pounds five ounces

[Harmon_Greer]

for the accuracy nuts, here it is.
10 rounds at 50 yds.
5 round of lyman 525s loaded in WIN AA hulls, Win 209 primers
25.0 grains Unique, WT12 Wad 8 point fold crimp.
shot from the bench 66 degrees at 900 pm last night.

THEN fired 5 rounds of the round ball loads
Federal High brass 2.75 inch once fired slug hulls.
the same 25.0 grains unique
WT12 wad with petals removed
3.4 CC baby oatmeal filler
hard cast round ball coated with alox
roll crimp at 2.400 inches.

they went through the same hole.

the gun has no lead residue in the barrel what so ever...

[longbow]

Very nice! Looks like you have found a good load for the rifled barrel.

The little shooting I did with a rifled Remington was giving me good accuracy with the 0.735" RB. Not as good as you got but good. Also no leading at all.

Good work!

Longbow

[nicholst55]

That's some impressive shooting there, Harmon! I have the same gun, but I don't load shotgun stuff - only rifle and pistol. I might have to give it a try someday.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Great post on 735 inch round ball Harmon. I really enjoyed reading it, thanks for sharing.
Ajay
www.PreciousVideoMemories.com

[TRG3]

Harmon...Thanks for the post. I have the same slug gun and will be trying your load suggestions. Just wondering if you've ever tried Herco or 4756 with the Lyman slug and/or roundball? I've got some of each of these powders.

[Harmon_Greer]

Looking to get some 4756 to test soon. To others with this gun who want to load full power slugs, I've had good results out of 3 in federal hulls, fed 209a primers, 50 grns blue dot. Waa12 wad petals removed and 3.4 cc of baby oatmeal. Even in the big gun recoil is harsh fyi these were roll crimped until the hull touched the ball. Also gives excellent accuracy if you can take the abuse

[wellfedirishman]

Harmon, what kind of handles do the Tanner molds use? I looked at his site and the round ball molds don't appear to have handle attachments.

What is the baby oatmeal for? Filler between the powder and the shot cup? Or between the round ball and the top of the shell? Sorry if this is a newbie question, I have never heard of filler used in shotgun shells before

I don't have a round ball mold yet, but will try this with a NEF slug gun using Lee 1oz slugs.

Thanks.

[OBCoal]

Great balls of fire! Thats a fine group. I'll have to try the lyman load out and get me a round ball mould.

[Harmon_Greer]

They take Lee 6 cav handles..but will work with lyman as well.

the baby oatmeal goes between the wad collumn and the ball...it cushions the acceleration of the ball and also prevents the wad from being jammed up around the edges of the ball.
it also serves as a filler to get the load to the right height for a crimp.
from my experience, No oatmeal = no group...

i would imagine card wads stacked would work fine as well.

[longbow]

Harmon:

Not having done much shooting with rifled barrels I can't say for sure but using just a hard card wad coulmn in smoothbore, I have recovered 0.735" balls that show they have entered the forcing cone off center or rotating as the swaged "belt" is uneven. My suspicion is that the jump to the forcing cone and maybe roll crimp opening can result in some rotation.

I think the idea of filler, doughnut wads, inverted gas seals or whatever to help center and cushion the ball is a good idea. As you say, it also cushions the ball and keeps the wad from folding around the ball as well.

Again, excellent shooting and load workup.

Longbow

[Harmon_Greer]

all the recovered balls from my guns, Smoothbore and rifled show equal engagement in the bore...maybe i am lucky...or that light fluffy baby oatmeal keeps the ball centered.

Harmon

[kjg]

ok guys please explane, the filler role before the wad or after the wad and ball whats the deal please explain .

[longbow]

kjg:

So far I have found that some Cream 'O Wheat or cornmeal under the ball (on top of the wad) makes a big difference to accuracy. For the most part I have been using a plastic gas seal over the powder, then hard card wads to get the column height needed, then a scoop of filler under the ball.

I have tried a variety of nitro card wads, hard card wads, fiber wads and various combinations but so far the best esults I have gotten are using hard card wads and filler.

My guess is that the filler forms a nice cup to support the ball and keep it centered. I have not tried baby oatmeal but I am sure it performs the same function.

Normally if I use a plastic shotcup with petals removed without nitro card wads under the ball I get just what Harmon did ~ wads extruding around the ball resulting in tearing and blown gas seals. A nitro card wad or two and some filler is even better in my experience.

I also use filler under balls that fit into shotcups as well with good results.

Longbow

[Harmon_Greer]

added a new load.

42.5 grains IMR 4756
federal 12 gauge 1 ounce wad petals removed.
2 .125 nitro cards
735 round ball coated in alox with a dab of bore butter on the bottom of the ball.
roll crimp.

this is loaded into a remington nitro steel 3.5 inch hull cut to 3.0 inches.

accuracy is like a 12 gauge death ray...recoil is impressive.

[longbow]

Harmon:

I had forgotten this thread so was rereading and started laughing when I read your first post on load #4 using 44 grs. Blue Dot:

"**this thing is 1 hole accurate at 50 yds and produces terrific muzzle flash and terrifying recoil. chrono shows 1446 fps at 10 yds.**"

I got to 38 grs. Blue Dot in a light Remington 870 and "terrifying recoil" doesn't half describe it! A heavier gun and/or some very thick padding is definitely in order.

I now have some IMR4756 to test out as well. I just need time.

Have you shot any of these past 50 yards? I am wondering about 100 yard accuracy with the round ball.

The rifled gun I used was borrowed and I only shot to 50 yards as well.

Good info, thanks for keeping the thread updated with new results.

Longbow

[Smoke73]

Give 80 grains of imr 4759 a try. Hubel says it pressure tests ok, it's faster, safer and the recoil and muzzle flash has to be seen to be appreciated. It's my favorite .735 RB load. Shooting buddies call these loads "just plain violent" and refer to my shotty as "Old Rank".