.30-40 Krag at 300yds.

[.22-10-45]

Hello, I asked this question at another site, but was hoping for your opinions: This Sept. the Muskegon Rifle & pistol Club in MI. is having "Kangaroo Cup" match, fired prone at 300yds. Can use two rifles, thought I would use my .40-70 Sharps straight & 1898 Krag. Yesterday spent 8 hr. casting sesson which included Ideal#311467 Lovern style, weight 180grs. Only shot this bullet to 100yds. with 18.5gr. IMR4227. Very accurate but probably underpowered for 300. At another site, Lyman #314299 was said to be more accurate at extended range & able to withstand larger charge. My groove dia. is .310 so can use larger bullet. The Ideal .311467 I have has 8 narrow bands. Nose dia.:.302, 1st. band:.3035, 2nd. band: .3055, remaining 6 are .314. What do you think? Do I need another mould? (just what I need). Thanks guys!

[madsenshooter]

I can't see where you'd need another mold. That charge of 4227 ought to get you 1800-1900fps. The bore diameter of your Krag is probably .301, most of mine are, so your bullet should be getting good guidance from the lands. The largest bullet I can use in my Krags without neck turning is .312, using Remington brass. I see the bands on that bullet are a bit thin, you might try a slower powder that will give the bullet a gentler push, and more velocity at the same time. The NOE 311284, available on the small group buy page might be good for you. Sounds like a fun match.

[RayinNH]

.22, just elevate your sight a bit more with your 311467. As madsenshooter mentioned, 311284 is hard to beat, it was designed for the Krag...Ray

[Shiloh]

What does your 311284 drop at and what size is the nose. Is the nose at least .301??

Shiloh

[NickSS]

From my experience all you need to do with your accurate load is to raise the sight probably another 4 or 5 MOA to be on at 300 from a 200 yard zero.

[madsenshooter]

What does your 311284 drop at and what size is the nose. Is the nose at least .301??

Shiloh

In my alloy, the NOE 311284 drops with a .302 nose and .314 on the bands. Now where the vent lines on the mold are vertical, behind the ogive, the nose drops down to .301/.300 and then comes back up to .302 just ahead of the crimp/cleaning groove.

[.22-10-45]

Hello, Guys, Thanks for all the good info. My Krag has bore of .302 & groove .3105" I size bullets to .312" I have mould .311284 but nose is only .301. I have found Lyman .311299 & .314299, surely with one of these I should hit pay dirt! To be honest, I haven,t really tried very hard with 311284, you see I was preparing for 100yd. matches at local club and purchased Ideal 311413 & 311467. These shot so well, no further experimenting was done. Now this was all of twenty years ago, and looks like i,ll have to get busy...Isn,t it strange ..just when you think you have all the bases covered in this mould dept. another one comes along that you just have to try..they seem to multiply like rabbits! Anyway, thanks so much guys, I,ll keep you posted.

[StarMetal]

My 311284 doesn't drop nearly as fat as Madsens. At any rate that bullet and the 314299 are extremely accurate in my Krag. I size my bullets at .310-311 for my rifle. I honestly haven't tried that 314299 at .314 to see if it will fit the chamber without neck turning.

[Bret4207]

If you get into the older loading and shooting books from the early 1900's through the 1940's you'll find large amounts of info on the Krag and it's long range capabilities.

[madsenshooter]

My 311284 doesn't drop nearly as fat as Madsens. At any rate that bullet and the 314299 are extremely accurate in my Krag. I size my bullets at .310-311 for my rifle. I honestly haven't tried that 314299 at .314 to see if it will fit the chamber without neck turning.

Do you have the Lyman or NOE version? I've read a lot about the Lyman versions being undersized on the nose, nothing a little lapping compound couldn't fix, or added tin to the alloy in some cases. That reminds me, I used a high Sn alloy to get the measurement I gave above.

22-10-45, I've gotten good results with Belding and Mull's version of the 311413, however I've found 1600 is about top velocity for it before the itty bitty groups start producing unexplained fliers. This is with some hard cast alloy too. I think it has something to do with the bullet's center of gravity. Anyway, 12.5gr of Blue Dot gets me 1575fps avg and super accuracy! You'd think I was shooting a modern benchrest rifle instead of a 115 year old military rifle.

[StarMetal]

Do you have the Lyman or NOE version? I've read a lot about the Lyman versions being undersized on the nose, nothing a little lapping compound couldn't fix, or added tin to the alloy in some cases. That reminds me, I used a high Sn alloy to get the measurement I gave above.

22-10-45, I've gotten good results with Belding and Mull's version of the 311413, however I've found 1600 is about top velocity for it before the itty bitty groups start producing unexplained fliers. This is with some hard cast alloy too. I think it has something to do with the bullet's center of gravity. Anyway, 12.5gr of Blue Dot gets me 1575fps avg and super accuracy! You'd think I was shooting a modern benchrest rifle instead of a 115 year old military rifle.

No mine is a Lyman, bought it back in the 90's.

[Char-Gar]

IMHO shooting a cast bullet from a 30 caliber rifle is a cast bullet from a 30 caliber rifles. If is comes from a 30-40, a 30-06 or a 30 whatever, and exits the muzzle at the same speed, it will act the same downrange. Of course the more accurate the rifle the better chance those bullets have of keeping company at the place of impact.

Choose your bullet on which one gives the best accuracy in your rifle at the desired impact point.

YOu will want a bullet that will remain supersonic until the time of impact.

The two factors will help you to select your bullet.

311467 is a favorite bullet of mine and should do the trick. But 311284 is longer and will shed less velocity over over the course even though it may start out a little slower.

At the end of the day all of this talk and theory is just that...talk and theory. The only thing that matters is your bullet on the paper at your chosen range. The way to understand that is to go shooting.

[Bob S]

The 220 grain Krag service load @2000 fps would go subsonic between 400 and 500 yards. The 172 grain Thomas bullet that was the preferred "match" loading after about 1905 started out at 2300 fps and would remain supersonic to 600 yards, but not 1000 yards. Despite that, some pretty good scores were fired with the Krag at 600 and 1000 yards.

The 311284 is ballistically inferior to the original Krag service bullet; the 311 or 314299 are probably much closer to the Krag service bullet in ballistic coefficients. Launching either of these at 2000 fps safely with accuracy from a Krag is acheiveble.

Resp'y,
Bob S.