Your opinions on tumblers vs vibratory cleaners????

[jcwit]

Hey Mike, you gotta remember all that LEAD DUST is so light it just flyes all over the place, Lead dust OMG, run for shelter.

Seriously Lead dust would be heavy, no? But then what do I know?

BTW prs, where and how do you dispose of your liquid from the wet tumbler? Just wondering.

[shdwlkr]

I have a vibratory cleaner and it is the biggest one that Lyman used to sell. I can put over a thousand pistol cases in it and in a few hours they are nice and shiny.
I can put around 700- or so rifle cases in it at one time also so it meets all my needs.
It does take some media to fill it thou like around 7 pounds of corn comb media.

[mike in co]

Hey Mike, you gotta remember all that LEAD DUST is so light it just flyes all over the place, Lead dust OMG, run for shelter.

Seriously Lead dust would be heavy, no? But then what do I know?

BTW prs, where and how do you dispose of your liquid from the wet tumbler? Just wondering.

i dont do wet....but guy i know do...they never said, i never asked.

[prs]

The source of the lead dust in our tumblers is from the spent primer mix. I'm not sure if its relatively heavy or not. I've seen lead oxide as was once used to mix with linseed oil to make white paint, it was a fine talc-like powder that would easily blow in the wind. Winchester Western used to claim to not use lead in their primer mix, or very little. Prolly nothing for you to fret over, brain cells regenerate, right? My wet media waste? I pack it into sealed orange plastic containers and deliver it to my local hazzardous waste facility. Yeah, that's the ticket.



prs

[deerslayer]

Has anyone ever checked into the amount of lead it will take to hurt you?? I am a plumber and all the old plumbers including my father in law used a leadpot every day for 15 or 20 years before no hub came out. He has been and is checked yearly for this (because he worked on a nuc cleanup they check everything every year) and has never had high levels of lead. I have done enough plumbing with lead to know they smelted it, poured it, tapped it for a while with a chisel, trimmed it with a hack saw or file and also soldered with it and all this was daily.
I see people smelting with a respirator which I understand if it is for the other **** you are burning off of the lead but I find it hard to believe the lead no more than we smelt especially out doors is going to present a problem to us. Now I am not saying you should have a lead paintchip sandwich and common sense is usually good sense with regard to PPE. I just personally think the whole thing is overboard.
Mike in Co have you had your levels checked as you take care of more brass in a week than most of us ever will in a lifetime??

[John Boy]

Your opinions on tumblers vs vibratory cleaners????

Tom, give this a read:
http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/in...p?topic=7130.0

Double barrel rotaries are on sale now at Harbor Freight stores. 40 bucks for a 10#

[mike in co]

Mike in Co have you had your levels checked as you take care of more brass in a week than most of us ever will in a lifetime??

i have blood work done all the time by the va...i will have to ask next time if they check for pb.

and if not ask that they do.

they have never said anything....

mike
( i also scrap range lead for one of my customers....1000 plus lbs every couple of weeks)

[jcwit]

Have my blood levels tested now 4 times a year, used to be 7 times a year. So far no problems, always in the single digits.

Back when they were testing 7 times a year I was helping clean out lead from our indoor range twice a year, plus all the smelting of scrap lead and wheel weights. Plus all the tumbling of brass however I never got up to the volume of Mike in Co.

[Bkid]

I use a walnut and small ball porcelean combo with some Nu finish. Works well. I ust the large and small walnut. I think I will try some steel shot next time,It really polishes well and cleans even the worst stuff off. I use it in my jewelry manufacturing on silver,not sure how it would do on brass. I will get back with that.

[1hole]

"Now I am not saying you should have a lead paintchip sandwich and common sense is usually good sense with regard to PPE. I just personally think the whole thing is overboard. "

Well said. In this "Chicken Little" age, common sense is an uncommon virtue.

[deerslayer]

i have blood work done all the time by the va...i will have to ask next time if they check for pb.

and if not ask that they do.

they have never said anything....

mike
( i also scrap range lead for one of my customers....1000 plus lbs every couple of weeks)

Mike, when or if you do get checked let us know so we know what our limits are atleast we will know we can do up to as much brass as you do and not die of lead poisoning.

[prs]

I received a bottle of the Hornady One Shot Ultrasonic case cleaner yesterday. It is a detergent and water solution saturated with citric acid. A very similar solution is readily avaialable from Prestone as "Super Flush". I prepared the Hornady solution according to the lable. I placed 50 clean, other than carbon caked primer pockets. 45 Colt cases in the basket and that into the Hornady Ultrasonic cleaner. I added the correct level of solution and ran the unit through 3 "480" second cycles, let it rest and then one more cylce. Drained and rinsed in cool water. The carbon deposits were reduced by about half or maybe a bit more. I used the same solution formula to run 200 similar carboned cases in my Thumbler's Tumbler for 30 minutes and got a very similar result. That's all the fouled cases I had on hand, I will generate plenty more for experiments, but I'm diappointed in the Ultrasonic Cleaner.

prs

[deerslayer]

I received a bottle of the Hornady One Shot Ultrasonic case cleaner yesterday. It is a detergent and water solution saturated with citric acid. A very similar solution is readily avaialable from Prestone as "Super Flush". I prepared the Hornady solution according to the lable. I placed 50 clean, other than carbon caked primer pockets. 45 Colt cases in the basket and that into the Harnaduy Ultrasonic cleaner. I added the correct level of solution and ran the unit through 3 "480" second cycles, let it rest and then one more cylce. Drained and rinsed in cool water. The carbon deposits were reduced by about half or maybe a bit more. I used the same solution formulae to run 200 similar carboned cases in my Thumbler's Tumbler for 30 minutes and got a very similar result. That's all the fouled cases I had on hand, I will generate plenty more for experiments, but I'm diappointee in Ultrasonic Cleaner.

prs

That is disappointing, I was thinking of getting a ultra sonic just for the primer pocket and interior cleaning. After read your comments I may not invest in one. Thanks for the report.

[RaymondMillbrae]

Here's my initial take on the OP's question:

I believe vibratory tumblers are great. Get yourself a bit of fine corn cob and fine walnut, mix them together 50/50, and you get a little of both worlds. (Quick cleaning from the walnut, and a semi-polish from the corn cob). And to add another positive note, the corn cob is a bit on the absorbant side, and will help to remove the lubrication from the brass better than the walnut.

I have read many accounts that stated that leaving your brass tumbling too long will be detrimental. But I say, "Pthhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"!

I sometimes leave my brass in the vibratory tumbler for two days, with no harm done.

Others will say that you should never leave "finished rounds" in the vibratory tumbler, as it will break down the powder and change it's composition. (I was one of those myself). But I have read a few reports of folks leaving their completed rounds in the vibratory tumbler for a few days in a row -on purpose - and then chronographed them with non-vibrated rounds, with no adverse or different results.

Good enough for me, as I will not leave loaded rounds in the vibratory tumbler for no where near that long anyways. (But I do place completed rounds in my vibratory tumbler for 20 to 30 minutes at a time to remove the lubrication after reloading).

Anyhoo...being that my wifey is a wire jewlery maker, we also have a Thumblers Tumbler...and that puppy is nice. But I also know that the Thumblers Tumbler uses stainless steel beads (and other odd shapes, IE, needles and ovals) to polish and soften the sharp edges of metal jewlery. But from a metallurgical point of view, this also CASE HARDENS the exterior surface of the treated metal. (It is a way or "work hardening" the surface of copper and silver).

So for brass, I would think that you would NOT want to do this, as you do not want to "work harden" the neck (or any part) of the brass case.

But if you are one of those folks who "DO" use liquid tumblers...more power to you.

Just my initial observation.

In Christ: Raymond

[mike in co]

I believe vibratory tumblers are great. Get yourself a bit of fine corn cob and fine walnut, mix them together 50/50, and you get a little of both worlds. (Quick cleaning from the walnut, and a semi-polish from the corn cob). And to add another positive note, the corn cob is a bit on the absorbant side, and will help to remove the lubrication from the brass better than the walnut.

I have read many accounts that stated that leaving your brass tumbling too long will be detrimental. But I say, "Pthhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"!


In Christ: Raymond

you said opinion, but where are your facts that walnut cleans faster than brass???

and we are not in the jewelry business, but i do consider brass POLISHED with corn cob not SEMI POLISHED.....so where does that statement come from ??(remember you are on a shooting forum, and polished brass has a meaning here.)


for your info stick powders often have surface coatings which control burn rates. they will and do come off..the results can be a significant change in burn characteristics. so long term vib tumbling is not reccomended. so if your examples all had used ball powder...it meant nothing.

i have said it before, but will repeat for you. i am in the brass business. NO ONE IN MY FIELD, THAT I KNOW, USES WALNUT MEDIA IN THIER BUSINESS. the only two methods used in my field that i am aware of is WET or CORNCOB. if better or cheaper were out there we would be using it.

ya have a good day

mike in co

[StarMetal]

I use the vibrator type brass cleaner and this is where something ties in with weak magazine springs. The bowl is supported by spring
pillars to enable it to vibrate. Over the years the spring have collapsed some and bend also. I really need to replace them. Other then that I love the vibrator type.

[RaymondMillbrae]

you said opinion, but where are your facts that walnut cleans faster than brass???

Don't need facts on this on. I have been reloading for well over 15-years, and this has been experienced personally. Have two vibratory tumblers, side by side. Load one with corn cob, and the other with walnut. If left alone for a day, they will both be "clean"...but the corn cob will have a "shinier finish".

Now do the same, but this time leave the brass in the media for only 1-hour...and now tell me which one cleaned the spent brass better. (The walnut media)

and we are not in the jewelry business, but i do consider brass POLISHED with corn cob not SEMI POLISHED.....so where does that statement come from ??(remember you are on a shooting forum, and polished brass has a meaning here.)

You don't need to be a "gee-nee-ous" to play with words, but this I do know - some folks will clean their brass with specific media, and others will add a polishing compound to their media. (Nu-Finish, Dillon Rapid Polish, etc...). Why?

Duh...because one leaves the brass "shinier". Now, what do you think the word "shinier" means? Polished, semi-polished, matte finish, gloss, semi-gloss...

Ha ha ha.

Just semantics. All semantics. Bottom line, one leaves the surface "less scratched," hence giving better light reflection...or shinier. Call it whatever you like, but there is a difference in "look" when done. They way I see it, one gives a shiny finish, and the other a semi-polished finish. (Kinda like a satin finish).



And "No"...I don't clean brass for a living. I am no "pro-fesh-u-nal". But I knows what I knows, and I sees what I sees.


for your info stick powders often have surface coatings which control burn rates. they will and do come off..the results can be a significant change in burn characteristics. so long term vib tumbling is not reccomended. so if your examples all had used ball powder...it meant nothing.

I hear you, and I come from those same camps. But others have shown that leaving brass tumbling for a short, extended, period of time (2-days max) will show no perceivable difference in performance. Granted, they did it with pistol-caliber rounds - but that was all I was interested in.

If you load with stick powders, and you clean brass for a living...hmmm...try experimenting with it and post your results. Enquiring minds would like to know.

i have said it before, but will repeat for you. i am in the brass business. NO ONE IN MY FIELD, THAT I KNOW, USES WALNUT MEDIA IN THIER BUSINESS. the only two methods used in my field that i am aware of is WET or CORNCOB. if better or cheaper were out there we would be using it.

I hear you, brother. I guess there are just "suckers" out there (me included) who are purchasing enough walnut media to warrant a company to invest in this material. (CLICK HERE, HERE, or HERE). I use a 50/50 mixture, and I am happy with it. I came up with this idea YEARS AGO, before ever reading about it on the internet. It didn't leave my brass all spiffy and shiny, but it cleaned quicker, and it made my media last a little longer before being thrown out. (I don't really go by the "color" of the media. I will throw it out when it takes too long to clean my brass effeciently).

ya have a good day

But of course.

mike in co

In Christ: Raymond

[mike in co]

In Christ: Raymond

maybe the bay area air has got To your brain.

read my lips...

all my brass( with the exception of winter outdoor 223) that i sell is POLISHED with corn cob and fine ground corn cob in a large dillon VIB type tumble in ONE HOUR.

THERE IS NO RUNNING OVER NIGHT.

THSES SIMPLE STATEMENTS BY YOU MEAN SIMPLY YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU TALK ABOUT.

i beleive you one hundred percent when you say it takes walnut over night to CLEAN. but if your tumbler and corn cob has not polished your brass in one hour...YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG.
not enough media, not enough brass, dirty media.....the vib aint working.



so just how much stick pistol powder is used today ??

why make a public statement that something is safe when in most case it is not ?
just poor manners.

talk about word games///just admit you were wrong....my customers consider my brass POLISHED.


I AGREE WITH YOU ON SALES OF WALNUT TO CONSUMER/SUCKERS. NO ONE IN THE BRASS PROFESSION USES WALNUT...(HE SAYS AGAIN)....SO WHO IS THE SUCKER ??


( I did live in the bay area for awhile....so it was a joke..all the bad air goes thru pacheaco( sp) pass and settles in the san juaquin valley...where i also lived for a while.)

[StarMetal]

I prefer walnut media because it doesn't stick in the primer flash holes as much as corn media. Dumps out cases better too. Plus I like the finish that it leaves better.

[jcwit]

If you use corn cob grit 20/40 and have media stuck in your flash holes you either are tumbling cases with moisture in them or you're tumbling berdan cases. And believe me you won't have any trouble dumping it out of the cases either. Have you ever tried 20/40 grit?