And the winner iiiiissssss? Uberti.

[littlejack]

Well, Some of you fellas remember a couple of weeks ago, I wanted to know what the consenses was on getting a colt saa clone. Well, As I said in the first post, (Got a craven flug on me, 45Colt?) I liked the colt firing pin integral with the hammer. I wasn't too interested in going past the speed of sound, carrying only 5 shots was OK, and 600.00 was about max that I wanted to spend.
Here's what I bought. It is the Cimmaron Model P Evil Roy 45 colt.
OK, to start off with, In the advertisement on the Cimmaron site, it is stated that the owner of same, requires Uberti to make his particular colt clones with a specified metal alloy, for a stronger firearm. I did call Cimmarron, and I ask the saleperson about the metal and he did confirm that point. I did not even attempt to ask what kind of alloy it was, as I figured that would be a futile attempt to invade their privacy.
This is NOT to say that one can load these handguns any hotter than any other colt saa or clone saa because of the alloy it is made of.
The firing pin is the one I like. I got the 5.5" bbl, with the color case hardened frame. Now, from what I have heard, the case hardening is only a chemical coloring. To get the real color case hardening, one can have Cimmarron do this to their particular pride and joy for about 150.00 extra. I figured, No need.
Next, The reason I got the Evil Roy model, is NOT because I like the name. The Evil Roy models are designed by the SASS two time world champion. One gets the action timed and polished, a trigger job by the gunsmith if Cimmarrons choice right here in the USA. I would imagine it is in Texas as the Cimaron facility is. Also, full hand cut checkering on the grips, a wider front sight with a wider rear slot for better sighting. Last, but not least, the price. I have a friend who has the FFL and is a class one dealer for Cimmaron. Total cost to me was 558.00.
This piece is very nice. Nice smooth action. Very nice crisp trigger. It feels great in the hand, and looks great.
Now, I did make a couple of buys on the forum and picked up some 45 Schofield brass as well as Colt 45 brass. So, I will be loading up some rounds and see how this thing performs at the range. I borrowed the fellas mould that ordered the gun and cast up some Lyman 255 rnfp slugs to try. I will get back to you all and let you know how it performs. Thankls all for your input on the other thread.
Jack

[leftiye]

Picture?

[NickSS]

I know you will like it. One of my 45 colts is a Cimeron 5.5 inch but only the regular model. However, I like it a lot due to its nice feel and accuracy. I have put a couple thousand rounds through mine loaded with 250 gr LFP over 6 gr of Red Dot and it shoots to the X ring on a 25 yard pistol target with a six o'clock hold. I have completely blown out the X and 10 rings on numerous occasions. It also hits all the steel targets I have fired it at all the way out to 100 yards. I love that gun!

[jh45gun]

Congrats I think you made a fine choice.

[littlejack]

Thanks guys, for the positive replies. I loaded up 40 rounds last night. Going to the range
today to check out the accuracy. If it shoots as good as it looks, That will be great.
Jack

[littlejack]

OK fella's, Im back from the range.
I guess you could say that I couldn't be more pleased. First let me say that the loads that I am going to post are in no way satisfactory for anyone elses handgun but mine. I am not posting this information for someone else to load and shoot in their firearms.

I loaded two types of bullets. One was the Lee 255 grain rnfp that I received in a trade. Alloy unknown.
The other was the Lyman 250 grain 454190 truncated cone bullet. I cast yesterday with ww's + 2% tin. Both were lubed with Emmerts recipe bp lube.
I shot at 12.5 yards. I used a two handed hold. I let my wrists set on the rest and the handgun is held in the hands forward of the rest. I shot at this distance to try to do away with some of the human error, (my failing eyes). The targets have a solid 8" red circle with a solid 2" white center circle.
The first load was 8.5 grains of Universal. Bullets was Lyman 250. Five shots.
Group measured 1"x 1". Four shots starting in center touching diagonally to the 8 o:clock mark one shot pulled 1" out to 9clock. I will say, that after I shot the first two shots and they went almost into the same hole, into the center of the target, I lost all control.
The second group was with 8.5 grains of Universal and the Lee 255 grain rnfp.
These hit at the 6 o'clock mark in a nice 1.5 x 1.5" group.

My second load was with 9.2 grains of Herco.
First group w/ lyman bullets All five shots at .5" below dead center. I put a quarter over the group, and the quarter hits the center of all the bullets holes. Windage is perfect.
With the Lee 255 grain rnfp, the group is perfect for windage. The group was .75" wide x 2" verticle string. I know that I pulled some of the shots being excited that the gun shot so well.
Now for the velocities. Average of five shots. 13' from the muzzle.
8.5 grains Universal.
Lee 255 rnfp:
Lo 943
Hi 998
ave 975
es 54.41
sd 20.78

Lyman 250 grain:
Lo 902
Hi 953
ave 926
es 51.83
sd 23.64

9.2 grains Herco:
Lo 969
Hi 1007
ave 989
es 38.02
sd 13.60

Lyman 250 grain:
Lo 911
Hi 945
ave 927
es 33.53
sd 13.03
I could definately tell that the Lee bullets were producing more recoil, with either powder used. All of the cases fell out of the cylinder when the gun was pointed up to empty. There was soot all the way back on the cases. What I was very impressed with was that the firing pin hit smack dab in the middle of every primer. Hell, someone must have planned it that way.
So far it's a keeper.
Jack

[Southern Son]

How about a photo of the new shooter? A dude I shoot with at our range has one of them in 32-20. It is a nice little shooter. I have been working on him, trying to get him to load black powder.

[littlejack]

I'll try to post a photo. It will take a little time, as I am not real proficient with the process. I will have to get some instruction. Hands on type.
Jack

[Southern Son]

looking forward to seeing it.

[littlejack]

So, this afternoon, I loaded up some Schofield cases with 8.5 grains of Herco and topped them off with the Lyman 454190 bullet. If the weather is decent tomorrow, I will make it to the range and set them off. My goal is to get better performance out of the .180 shorter case, as compared to the 45 Colt case. There should be better ignition and better internal ballistics seeing as the powder will not be able to fly all over inside the case as it does in the oversized Colt case. In the Schofield case, there is about .100 air space between the bullet and powder charge. In the Colt case, and the 9.2 grains of Herco, there is about .350 air space between the powder and bullet. One thing I am concerned about is the accuracy. With the Schofield case, the bullet will have to jump the full .180 more than the Colt load to even be at the same place the Colt bullet started. This will give the bullet a chance to get cocked in the chamber befor it hits the throat. I will post later and give you all the results. Good shooting to ya.
Jack

[Calamity Jake]

For a light load try 4.5 Red Dot(my CAS load) with any of the boolits you have on hand.

[405]

I hope the winner works out

I know a lot of CAS shooters with 45 LCs go shorter with the Schofield but the downside is fouling build up (carbon ring) in front of the case. May not cause a problem just something to be aware of.

Also, since you mentioned Herco.... I tried that powder in pistol 40 years ago so my memory may be in question--- but I do remember it did not work well at all in the lower pressure, milder loads! Too slow and dirty. If you are going to the Schofield, it indicates you want a milder load. You might try a faster powder. Trail Boss is one to consider. Good insurance against double charge and it is a fast powder that works especially well in the short, high expansion ratio pistol type cartridges.

[August]

Your lying about all this if you don't show us a photo.

[littlejack]

No! No! Really, I did get a new gun. I'm tellin you guys, What I know about posting photos, would slip through the eye of a needle. My computer whiz will be hear in a couple of weeks. Just have patience. Besides, maybe the Kirkpatrick holster and belt will be here by then, and I can get photos of everything.
Jack

[littlejack]

Back from the range again.
I loaded some more rounds with the Herco powder and done some more testing.
All of the loads gave very good accuracy at the 12.5 yard range. Again I used this distance to do away with some of the human error. All of these loads will stay in a ping pong ball diameter at this distance. All of these loads were hand weighed for consistancy.
1.
Schofield brass, which is .180 shorter than the 45 Colt brass. 8.5 grains of Herco, topped with the Lyman 250 grain 454190 bullet.
Hi 998
Lo 899
Ave 947
SD 29.44
ES 98.51

2.
45 Colt brass, 9.5 grains Herco, topped with same Lyman 454190 bullet.
Hi 1005
Lo 940
Ave 978
Sd 27.51
Es 65.63

3. 45 Colt brass, 10 grains of Herco, topped with same Lyman 454190 bullet.
Hi 1044
Lo 972
Ave 1001
Sd 35.51
Es 72.84

All of the loads shot very clean. Very little powder residue and very little leading.
I was suprised most by the SD's and the ES's being higher with the weighed charges. In the first loads I shot in the original post, the powder charges were just dropped with the Little Dandy powder measure. The ES's and the SD's were lower than with the measured charges of today. Even the Schofield brass produced the higest SD's and ES's with the smaller volume case. Maybe the 9.2 grain of Herco load is the SWEET spot for this particular firearm?
Be that as it may, I have decided to stick with the 9.2 grain load with the 45 Colt brass. It averages a respectable 927 fps with the Lyman 454190 bullet. It is pleasant to shoot, TO ME. I see no sense in loading full tilt charges of Herco and being hard on the firearm.
I will swap the Schofield brass, one for one with 45 Colt brass or sell it outright if anyone is interested.
Jack

[littlejack]

Bump to the top.

[excavman]

Some people may refer to Uberti's pistols as cheap Itallian copies but it didn't take very many shots for my Cimmaron 44 spl open top to replace my Ruger SBH as 'favorite'.

Larry

[littlejack]

From the way my Uberti shoots, I will be keeping it until the Lord checks me in to heaven.
Jack

[Cannoneer]

Uberti's are good guns. However, I have a Great Western 2 that is just as accurate and reliable that I bought from EMF a couple of years ago. If I ever get another SAA Clone, it'll be another GW2.

[littlejack]

I believe that if the buyer is happy and the piece is made of good quality material, it is accurate and safe, what more can one ask. I don't need the "rearing pony" to be happy.
My Uberti will shoot just as well and kill just as dead, and last just as long.
Jack